Suggested by Eric Gigliotti
I don’t care what anyone says, this match is EPIC.
From the Stargate universe are The Ancients, making their debut on FactPile up against the Forerunners of Halo.
With the Forerunner Trilogy kicking off in January of 2011, there will be plenty of content for consumption.
Which side wins?
Oh boy, here comes the storm.
I think it should be specified whether this is pre-ascension Ancients or not, just to be on the safe side.
Hmmmm,
Dakara superweapon vs. Halo Installations…
“I think it should be specified whether this is pre-ascension Ancients or not, just to be on the safe side.”
This x1000. Might be best to decide on an era for them, actually (Lantean era, Alteran era, post-Ori-split era, etc). ‘Current’ incarnation would be Post-Ori-split (or maybe, if we stretch it, Lantean), but that also leaves them right on the cusp of Ascension and with all sorts of supernatural powers. Or is this match going to be one of those ‘composite’ matches? That’d certainly be interesting.
Whats a composite match?
FIRST!
Ah damit, you guys beat me to it
nvm, lol
Unless Admin further clarifies… Pegasus Alterans pre ascension.
Hey, eric, ive been meaning to ask you
Whats is your pic of?
Blueberry aliens from Stargate Universe.
stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Blueberry_alien
lol I could care less about his pic, when your pic kiks major ass Michael!!! XD
Anyway…. I have no idea who the ancients are, so my siding with either or will be a little tippsy.
Thanks wraith!
Cool Pic, eric
I want so side with the forerunners, cause they’re a little more familiar, but I don’t know what these acients can do
This battle could end up being very close, should be good.
plz dont let the wankers in
Yeah, no stargate wankers plz
No need to worry about halo wankers. They don’t really care anymore
First off, interesting match-up but I’m not gonna get involved so I know nothing about the Ancients. Also, Admin, did you get my request? I’d like to be sure before I sent it back in.
Hey Ryushi
How was your birthday?
Know next to nothing on The Acients, but like Admin said, this’;; get more interesting after Cryptm said comes out in the new year.
Oh Jesus Christ here comes some fanboys, run to you bunkers because its going to be a long flame war.
For the love Jesus Christ himself. That’s the only phrase that can apply to this.
How about we start suggesting matches that can actually be debated instead of issues in which one side is largely unknown and/or stomp matches?
FTL is unknown. Ancients are fast. Forerunner are fast. However, we don’t yet know the exact speed of the Forerunner slipspace drive. The Ancients also have the unstable wormhole drive, which is near instantaneous travel.
Numbers goes to the Forerunner in military, population is unknown though large for the Ancients.
Weapons unknown, though probably to the Ancients. Their drones bypass shields.
Shields are unknown, although Ancient ships can travel through stars.
Defenses unknown, probably go to Ancients. They have defense platforms and defense satelites. Though we are waiting for Cryptum.
Technology. Whoa boy. Both are heavy hitters with their tech.
Ancients have their City Ships, smart weapons, nano technology, self sustaining seed ships and exploration ships, an actual FTL drive (not hyperspace), power generation due to their FTL drive, Zero Point energy, instantaneous universe-wide communication, beaming technology, cloaking, cold fusion, EM disruptor field, molecular construction, the Ark of Truth, personal shields, time travel, time dilation, time loops, Dakara superweapon, and last but not least, the Stargate System. Heavy hitters.
The Forerunner are not as well known yet. They have their keyships, battleships, light weapons,sentinels, onyx sentinels, shield worlds, micro dyson spheres, anti-gravity, very advanced AI’s, the Ark, and last but not least, the Halo Array.
Just some food for thought before Halo Cryptum is released. I’ll be getting it the day it comes out. Also, thanks Admin for posting.
@ Kenny
Halo Cryptum arrives January 4th.
“FTL is unknown. Ancients are fast. Forerunner are fast. However, we don’t yet know the exact speed of the Forerunner slipspace drive. The Ancients also have the unstable wormhole drive, which is near instantaneous travel.
Numbers goes to the Forerunner in military, population is unknown though large for the Ancients.
Weapons unknown, though probably to the Ancients. Their drones bypass shields.
Shields are unknown, although Ancient ships can travel through stars.
Defenses unknown, probably go to Ancients. They have defense platforms and defense satelites. Though we are waiting for Cryptum.”
Canantra came up with some pretty impressive calcs for a whole slew of Stargate vessels. This included the Asuran (lantean) level ships. Pretty much everything short of STL and FTL speeds. Shield strength, weapons strength, etc.
“@ Kenny
Halo Cryptum arrives January 4th.”
So the match is basically waiting and is going to be filled by the cliche wanking for either side until the real debate can start.
I still like the match up though. Depending on how much I like it will be decided by how much information is gathered by Cryptum and if it allows for a decent debate.
Stargate firepower is a dogs breakfast of petrol bomb VFX and the usual tv show inconsistency, mixed in with “this might be a technobabble doom ray….but who knows?”
“So the match is basically waiting and is going to be filled by the cliche wanking for either side until the real debate can start.”
We can lay out the facts of the Ancients side. But yes, we do have to wait for Cryptum.
Something on Atlantis’s shield.
forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=89917
I really don’t like the situation he used for the calcs.
1. This was Atlantis thousands of years after the Ancients prime. The shields were in constant use for thousands of years, holding back the weight of the ocean. Furthermore, there was great damage to the city during this event so the shields were not at full strength.
2. There was not 3 fully charged ZPM’s powering the shields.
3. The shields did not collapse there, so this is not the max amount of energy the shields can take.
A better example is the siege of Atlantis. The Wraith fleet surrounded Lantea for years and bombarded it before the Ancients submerged the city. It looked like this.
The OP has spoken!
Don’t know much about the forerunners, but from what I do know I’m not sure preasention ancients have much of a chance. they may be SG’s super elder race, but they’re hardly its heavy hitters.
Either way, here’s some info on the Ancients:
Population: unknown, probably millions.
Forces and Disposition: unknown number of settlements and outposts across the pegasus galaxy, at least 2 city ships, and an unknown number of aurora class ships (probably double digit).
Power generation: the ancient’s main power source is their ZPM (Zero Point Modual) that produces ridiculous amounts of energy. 3 such devices were sufficiant for maintaining the shield of the atlantis city ship against the water pressure while it was submerged at the bottom of the ocean for 10,000 years. Bringing down ZPM powered shields usually takes days or even months of sustained fire by entire fleets, and even the most powerful weapons in SG usually take many hours.
Armaments: the ancient’s main weapon is the drone missile. These missiles are fired in swarms, generally ignore shields and ram their way through the target seeking vital systems. They are also known to deploy orbital energy beam platforms that can 1 shot hiveships.
Defenses: the ancients possess advanced shielding technology that is also highly costumizable and can be converted into a cloaking field or to project various energy fields in a pinch. Their armor on the other hand is far less impressive and usually provides little or no protection once the shields are breached.
The ancients also developed a veriaty of superweapons but were too pacifistic to use them effectively…
At any rate, the halo rings and shield worlds alone are beyond the scope of ancient capabilities.
I would still like to see those hillarious calcs posted on SpaceBattles and watched them getting corrected.
I would still like to see those hillarious calcs(firepower) posted on SpaceBattles and watched them getting corrected.
“I would still like to see those hillarious calcs(firepower) posted on SpaceBattles and watched them getting corrected.”
Then what’s this I hear about how consistantly horrible spacebattles is from each sources outside of factpile…?
“each ”
Even sources*. Including people within factpile as well.
SpaceBattles is a rather good forum.I can name a lot of experts there who would put most factpilers to shame.
They’ve also bashed Picard578 and his blog.
“They’ve also bashed Picard578 and his blog.”
Lol who hasn’t?
@Eric
They’ve done it with more awesome.
Just found an interesting picture (it has nothing to do with the debate).
lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/masterchiefsamusboba-fett-and-snake-vs-zombies-149.jpg
“(it has nothing to do with the debate)”
1 – That’s what the forums are for…
factpiletopia.com/index.php
2 – You could have at least found the right fight to post that in, like…
www.factpile.com/master-chief-vs-samus/
www.factpile.com/master-chief-samus-vs-snake-raiden/
www.factpile.com/master-chief-samus-vs-mother-brain/
www.factpile.com/bounty-master-chief-vs-samus-aran-boba-fett-durge/
or even…
www.factpile.com/speed-boost/
Sometimes the lazy in this place astounds me.
Hopefully, the Forerunners won’t get shanked like Halo Reach was in these books
“Hopefully, the Forerunners won’t get shanked like Halo Reach was in these books”
Well, Greg Bear is a hard core science writer. So if it can’t be explained scientifically, he won’t add it in… Don’t expect some awesome flashy tech if no one can explain how it works.
“Sometimes the lazy in this place astounds me.”
Guilty as charged.
@Eric
Uh……..
Well, Forerunners are screwed. No one has a friggin idea how their stuff works
Well, this debate’s over
“Well, Forerunners are screwed”
Forerunner aren’t screwed, in fact neither are.
Should’ve post poned this until after january.
Fail match.
where are my matches ? Seriously Im gonna start crying.
“where are my matches ? Seriously Im gonna start crying.”
I know, right? Only my shitty matches (or so people say) were posted. One was admittedly shitty since I had forgotten some of the over the top feats for one character and honestly thought it was much closer than I had originally thought.
The other one basically had no one give any real thought and went with the conclusion of “ROFLGALAXYGUN!” despite the weapon that everyone assumed would win the match was actually removed. *shrug*.
“Should’ve post poned this until after january.”
Well when I suggested it, I figured it would take the average 2-3 weeks to be posted. That would put it right on que. However, it was posted immediately.
@orpheus12 – Patience, they are on the way…
This match is really impossible to complete as very little is known about the forerunners.
@Admin 2 questions
1. What is your picture of???
2.When are you going to suggest an excellent match as a christmas present.
@Micheal it was fun, got the newest Guitar Hero, it was for Wii. And yes, I am for the Wii, sorry, anti-Sony and anti-Microsoft.
@Ryushi
Why don’t you learn to play a real guitar instead of just playing Guitar Hero?
Look at this guy.
@Ryushi
COOL, Glad you enjoyed yourself
Don’t worry, we have a Wii too. Surprisingly, I enjoy Mario Kart
@IvanTiH
Don’t go hating!
Besides, guitar hero and rockband is actually like practicing with a real guitar. The difference is that the “crowd” won’t attack you if you suck
@Michael50210 – Guitar Hero and Rock Band are absolutely in no way comparable to playing a real guitar. For those games all you do is mash buttons, there in no thought given to chord progressions, power chords, riffs, solos, hammer-ons, tapping, strumming, palm muting, etc.
Are they fun to play? Yes. Are they practicing for the real thing? No way.
Oh wait, I was thinking of the drumming. That’s kinda like practicing, and my dad told me it was too
Yeah, admin, you’re right. I got confused
BTW, why do you have that little math problem below the battle request?
@Michael50210 – the math problem is put there so that the automated spam bots can’t submit their crappy links.
Ah
Nice (comment not too short)
@Michael50210
I’m not a hater I just suggest that it’s better to spend time on a real guitar.
Another thing I would like to point out is the advanced physiology of the Ancients. Pre-Ascension, they had a healing touch, energy/fire attacks, shields, and the wiki said telekinesis although I’m not sure where they were shown to have this.
Rodney stealing dohnuts Eric
@Cananatra
Just to clear things up with the Rodney business. Was that when he activated the ascension machine and slowly started becoming like the Ancients which then led him into ascending. Well almost ascention.
The Ancients also made the Replicators to help fight the Wraith. So should the Replicators be added the the Ancients arsenal or discluded because they are a different race. Even though they were made by the Ancients.
By the way if anyone has been watching SGU. Well good for you, that show is awesome!
@ Zavier
Its a touchy subject. Some will claim no because it is outside help. Others will say that since the Ancients created them to combat the Wraith, it is perfectly acceptable for them to create the Replicators to combat the Forerunner. Nano technology is in their arsenal.
Saying Ancients can’t use the Asurans is like saying the empire can’t use droids.
A nice thing to point out for Ancients is that they also have readily available time travel technology in not one but two forms. Jumpers outfitted with the device (which in a neutral universe CIS won’t prevent them from spamming) or using solar flares via stargates.
Do the Forerunners get the Sentinels? Surely if the Forerunners are allowed the use of their quasi-independant robots who survive after their own death, the Ancients should be allowed the use of theirs.
“Do the Forerunners get the Sentinels? Surely if the Forerunners are allowed the use of their quasi-independant robots who survive after their own death, the Ancients should be allowed the use of theirs.”
Exactly. Even if the Asurans as a “race” aren’t allowed there is nothing stopping the Ancients from building more. I still see no reason why Asurans wouldn’t be. They’re just like the Sentinals and AI’s (like Cortana) in Halo, Droids in Star Wars, etc.
The FR would most definitely get the Sentinels. They will even have access to the Onyx Sentinels.
well this is interesting. lets see
we know that ancients shields fail to Plasma based weapons
we know that drones can be destroyed by point defense weapons
doubt a ancient ship could with stand a slip-space rupture or the infinite sentinels employed by the forerunners.
numbers go to Forerunners
slip-space can be used to drop in behind enemy line and even into the atmosphere.
thou the biggest advantage of Forerunners are their A.i.s such a Mendicant Bias and there much larger fleets ( in the millions ) and plasma weapons. also there weapons can crush a stars core to produce supernovas which we know no SG ship can survive
“we know that ancients shields fail to Plasma based weapons”
Do we now? And which species do the Ancients fight that use plasma-based weapons? Which species in all of Stargate use plasma-based weapons?
“we know that drones can be destroyed by point defense weapons”
Interesting… we do?
“doubt a ancient ship could with stand a slip-space rupture or the infinite sentinels employed by the forerunners.”
Slipspace rupture… no. Nothing can. Only the Onyx Sentinels can combine to pose a threat.
“slip-space can be used to drop in behind enemy line and even into the atmosphere.”
Defense platforms will rip those ships to shreds.
” and plasma weapons. also there weapons can crush a stars core to produce supernovas ”
You of course will provide proof that FR weapons are plasma-based and that they can crush stars.
Instead of firing pulses of energy like most energy weapons, Asgard plasma beam weapons release a narrow, high-intensity beam of superheated plasma. Just one of these beams is capable of overloading and penetrating even the most advanced shields and burning through the hulls and internal structures of an enemy vessel with comparative ease, causing heavy damage; if the beam hits a critical area the target can be destroyed in only two to three shots. (SG1: “Unending”) (ATL: “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)
images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100203064933/stargate/images/2/20/Odyssey_beam_weapons.jpg
images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080723142622/stargate/images/e/eb/Be_all_my_sins_remember%27d.jpg
images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081016012439/stargate/images/e/ec/OriShip1Destroyed.jpg
do I need to provide more proof ? Sg major weakness is plasma.
Also defense platforms will be shredded by plasma weapons.
Plasma weapons were derived from Forerunner technology by the prophets race. its.
also read the terminals. There are descriptions of how they crushed a stars core to slow the spread of the flood and just about every thing you need to know about FR are contained in them but it will take me a day or two to go get them so bare with me on this.
f*ck srry “Bear with me” not “bare with me”
Terminal Two
(Upon initial access)
i am just quoting parts of it here
“This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;”
” L: The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?”
“we know that ancients shields fail to Plasma based weapons ”
At a high enough yield ANY shield will fail.
“we know that drones can be destroyed by point defense weapons ”
I don’t recall this happening. Still, hard to stop drones with point defense weapons if there’s more drones than you have weapons.
“doubt a ancient ship could with stand a slip-space rupture or the infinite sentinels employed by the forerunners.”
Opinions are nice. No limits fallacy is too.
“numbers go to Forerunners”
ORLY? When we have virtually no canonical information for them?
“slip-space can be used to drop in behind enemy line and even into the atmosphere.”
SG has an almost identical form of FTL. Not sure about them warping into the atmosphere though.
“thou the biggest advantage of Forerunners are their A.i.s such a Mendicant Bias and there much larger fleets ( in the millions ) and plasma weapons.”
Artificial intelligence Vs Actual intelligence… Hmm. Same thing with the numbers; when did you catch a sneak peak of the upcoming book?
“do I need to provide more proof ? Sg major weakness is plasma. ”
You seem to forget that said plasma weapons are among the most powerful–if not THE most powerful– energy weapons in that particular universe.
“Also defense platforms will be shredded by plasma weapons.”
Your proof has truly convinced me of this. *cough*
“Plasma weapons were derived from Forerunner technology by the prophets race. ”
Yeah, and? Covenant plasma weapons are pathetic.
““This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;””
Because they can’t do that in SG. Hell, Earth-borne humans with a limited understanding of the alien technology around them were capable of blowing up a star.
Why don’t you do what the rest of us are doing and wait until there’s REAL information on the Forerunners?
sweet lord this is how a debate gets bogged down.
“We know that ancients shields fail to Plasma based weapons”
At a high enough yields ANY shield will fail.
No and no Plasma has a keen effect on even ZPM powered ancient shields. It happens in the space battle over Asurans home world we see their point defense destroy Drones
“We know that drones can be destroyed by point defense weapons ”
I don’t recall this happening. Still, hard to stop drones with point defense weapons if there’s more drones than you have weapons.
And you’re not fallible, means I am wrong then since you don’t remember this so therefore it never happened.
“doubt a ancient ship could with stand a slip-space rupture or the infinite sentinels employed by the forerunners.”
Opinions are nice. No limits fallacy is too.
Same same but can a ship withstand the forces of a slip space rupture. We see a Super carrier ripped in half by a slip space jump or better known as a slip space rupture from jumping.
“Numbers go to Forerunners”
ORLY? When we have virtually no canonical information for them?
Jesus give me strength!
” L: The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?”
That is from the terminals so you’re wrong. And I have posted this above but guess you didn’t see it.
“slip-space can be used to drop in behind enemy line and even into the atmosphere.”
SG has an almost identical form of FTL. Not sure about them warping into the atmosphere
though.
yeah there you go we see covenant jump into orbit
“thou the biggest advantage of Forerunners are their A.i. such a Mendicant Bias and there much larger fleets ( in the millions ) and plasma weapons.”
Artificial intelligence Vs Actual intelligence… Hmm. Same thing with the numbers; when did you catch a sneak peak of the upcoming book?
What book? And A.I. are faster than Actual intelligence look at cortana she’s faster than any human and can store more information. Look at your calculator it’s not A.I. but it can do maths faster than you can.
“do I need to provide more proof ? Sg major weakness is plasma. ”
You seem to forget that said plasma weapons are among the most powerful–if not THE most powerful– energy weapons in that particular universe.
No there not. It just showns that their shields suck vs plasma weapons.
While there are energy weapons that can discharge more raw power at once such as the Lantean satellite weapon, they require an extended period of time and a significant amount of power to charge. In contrast, the advantage of plasma beam weapons lies in their ability to come online and charge at an incredibly rapid rate (using up relatively little power in the process) and deliver several consecutive shots in only a few seconds, overwhelming enemy defenses while they are still recovering from the previous hits. (SG1: “Unending”) (ATL: “The Siege, Part 1″, “First Strike”, “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)
“Also defense platforms will be shredded by plasma weapons.”
Your proof has truly convinced me of this. *cough*
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion. I don’t need to convince you since this debate has no convince Cide of your points I just have to beat your arguments
“Plasma weapons were derived from Forerunner technology by the prophets race. ”
Yeah, and? Covenant plasma weapons are pathetic.
And so are the plasma weapons used by SG been a pathetic small beam of plasma. And top it of yes the covenant not the FR.
““This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;””
Because they can’t do that in SG. Hell, Earth-borne humans with a limited understanding of the alien technology around them were capable of blowing up a star.
Other than boasting can you back this up and provide evidence
Why don’t you do what the rest of us are doing and wait until there’s REAL information on the Forerunners?
Yes well what information we have here so far beats what ancients have.
Numbers
“No and no Plasma has a keen effect on even ZPM powered ancient shields. It happens in the space battle over Asurans home world we see their point defense destroy Drones”
Only plasma weapons in the entire series are incredibly powerful Asgard weapons that if compared to the known figures of halo plasma weapons (covenant) would be at least one order of magnitude higher at a minimum. If you go off Canantra’s calcs (NOT based on Atlantis’ city ship figures either as someone earlier confused) then it’s SEVERAL orders of magnittude higher than Covenant weapons. I know Covenant=/= Forerunners; the point remains that they weren’t “just” plasma weapons. They were really fucking powerful plasma weapons.
Same with the aforementioned point defense weapons in question.
“And you’re not fallible, means I am wrong then since you don’t remember this so therefore it never happened.”
I didn’t imply that I was infallible. I was stating it in a way to do a hint-hint-nudge-nudge thing with that an intelligent person would’ve picked up on to indicate that “Where’s the proof”?
“Same same but can a ship withstand the forces of a slip space rupture. We see a Super carrier ripped in half by a slip space jump or better known as a slip space rupture from jumping.”
Because Ancients=Covenant. *coughcough* Or not.
“” L: The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?”
That is from the terminals so you’re wrong. And I have posted this above but guess you didn’t see it. ”
As per Halo’s MO everything’s going to get retconned anyway. I did see it though. Some vague reference is DEFINITELY a game changer.
““slip-space can be used to drop in behind enemy line and even into the atmosphere.”
SG has an almost identical form of FTL. Not sure about them warping into the atmosphere
though.
yeah there you go we see covenant jump into orbit”
Just because I wasn’t sure doesn’t mean it did not or could not happen; just that I don’t recall an instance where it happened. Doesn’t really imply the stategy of hopping to behind enemy lines is usable either.
““thou the biggest advantage of Forerunners are their A.i. such a Mendicant Bias and there much larger fleets ( in the millions ) and plasma weapons.”
Artificial intelligence Vs Actual intelligence… Hmm. Same thing with the numbers; when did you catch a sneak peak of the upcoming book?
What book? And A.I. are faster than Actual intelligence look at cortana she’s faster than any human and can store more information. Look at your calculator it’s not A.I. but it can do maths faster than you can.”
The new book coming out all about forerunners that was only mentioned 10 times in this thread prior to your posting. But I guess you couldn’t be troubled to read the thread before posting. I know, we’re all busy.
Anyway, Actual intelligence was refering to the Asurans. While they are synthetic they have “evolved” to a point where they have “actual” intelligence. Which by all standards I know of–especially with the efficiency and power of super computers–put it above “artificial” intelligence.
““do I need to provide more proof ? Sg major weakness is plasma. ”
You seem to forget that said plasma weapons are among the most powerful–if not THE most powerful– energy weapons in that particular universe.
No there not. It just showns that their shields suck vs plasma weapons.”
Because you say it makes it true. The ONLY plasma weapons (as far as we can prove) are Asgard beam weapons. Period. And even without any calculations it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the aforementioned plasma beam weapons are stronger than any guo’uld weapons, any known energy based weapons from asurans, and comparable–if not outright superior too– the Ori beam weapon. While it may be true “plasma is a weakness” you have to take into consideration exactly how powerful this plasma weapon is.
While there is no forerunner equivalent to compare it to it still stands leagues above the highest yield weapon we at least know about in Halo based on plasma tech. That being the obvious covenant. And if Forerunners still can’t compare to Asgard beam weapons then the whole weakness may really be a non-point since it still took multiple shots to bring down an Asuran shit.
““Also defense platforms will be shredded by plasma weapons.”
Your proof has truly convinced me of this. *cough*
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion. I don’t need to convince you since this debate has no convince Cide of your points I just have to beat your arguments”
Assuming I read your piss poor grammar accurately you do actually have to convince people on the other side. That’s what a debate is all about. Convicing them usually revolves around submitting proof of some kind. All you did was say “defense platforms fail lulz!” (not in so few words) and didn’t back it up. Especially when there are NO NUMBERS on Forerunner weapons and shields.
““Plasma weapons were derived from Forerunner technology by the prophets race. ”
Yeah, and? Covenant plasma weapons are pathetic.
And so are the plasma weapons used by SG been a pathetic small beam of plasma. And top it of yes the covenant not the FR. ”
Small doesn’t mean weak. But that’s alright. I don’t need to prove an Asgard plasma beam is superior (which it is) to a Covenant plasma weapon in a debate about Forerunners.
“““This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;””
Because they can’t do that in SG. Hell, Earth-borne humans with a limited understanding of the alien technology around them were capable of blowing up a star.
Other than boasting can you back this up and provide evidence”
I guess you didn’t see the evidence backing up the THREE times it was done in the SG universe in the 40k Vs SG debate. Really want me to hold your hand as you navigate back 2-3 pages? Because I can if you really need me too.
“Why don’t you do what the rest of us are doing and wait until there’s REAL information on the Forerunners?
Yes well what information we have here so far beats what ancients have.
Numbers”
Aside from the ambiguous quote above is there anything to suggest that even at their prime they numbered anywhere close to the ancients? Or anything to suggest that outnumbering them even matters?
@Ivan
-First off, call me Ryu please, I’d appreciate that, I’ve had the name for over two years on another site, so I’m really used to it, and no I didn’t take it off Street Fighter lol. Also, a real guitar would take a whole lot more money though, at least a new one, and I’m a gamer, so I thought, “Might as well try some music games too.” I just love trying to take those all on. Besides, I have Asperger, so I’m naturally clumsy, just trying to learn to play well on GH is hard. But I’m getting the hang of it.
@Micheal
-No surprise there, lmao Mario Kart is awesome, I play so many games, and some incredibly violent Wii only games. Believe me one of them, was incredibly close to being AO, but didn’t have quite enough.
“No and no Plasma has a keen effect on even ZPM powered ancient shields.”
No it actually takes many beams to take down the shields, and another 2-3 to finish the ships.
“It happens in the space battle over Asurans home world we see their point defense destroy Drones”
At 2:33 we see Drones destroying Drones, nothing more. Some got through on both sides.
“What book? And A.I. are faster than Actual intelligence look at cortana she’s faster than any human and can store more information. Look at your calculator it’s not A.I. but it can do maths faster than you can.”
And yet, we are talking about a race on the verge of Ascension. Their brains advanced to the point where they could channel energy to form a shield, or blast an attack. They could also heal.
“What book?”
Halo Cryptum.
“No there not. It just showns that their shields suck vs plasma weapons.”
The only other weapon with a higher yield in Stargate is the Ori’s main weapon. Drones don’t even have that powerful of a yield, they just pass right through shields.
“And so are the plasma weapons used by SG been a pathetic small beam of plasma.”
Size matters not. Judge Yoda by his size do you? Do you even know what plasma is? Please share without copy/pasting.
“Other than boasting can you back this up and provide evidence”
Carter destroyed a star to ambush Apophis’ fleet. Thats all I can think of at the top of my head.
““This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;”
” L: The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?””
Yet, the Ancients had an entire galaxy. Plus the resources of countless other galaxies.
Also James, please use the layout Cide and I are using. It is much easier to read.
The reason asgard plasma beams are so good against shields (besides raw power) is that they are incredibly narrow (it was stated in their description ffs), enabling them to punch a hole through the shield instead of bringing it down. Unless the impacted portion of the shield is at least as powerful as the full strength of the beam then the beam will punch through.
You were right about SG shields being weak against the asgard plasma beam weapon, you just mistook the reason- it’s the focus, not the fact it’s plasma.
SG has an almost identical form of FTL. Not sure about them warping into the atmosphere
though.
The SGA episode Inferno shows they can jump out, so it’s reasonable to assume they can jump in.
“SG has an almost identical form of FTL. Not sure about them warping into the atmosphere
though.
The SGA episode Inferno shows they can jump out, so it’s reasonable to assume they can jump in.”
Thanks. ” I thought that it had happened; I just couldn’t recall the exact instance. So I kind of left it alone.
“““This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse;””
Because they can’t do that in SG. Hell, Earth-borne humans with a limited understanding of the alien technology around them were capable of blowing up a star.”
We are told that a corrupted ZPM, has enough power to destroy an entire solar system, so the Ancients have a weapon of equal of greater power, that doesn’t even need a star to be present to use.
and since the Ancients can simply create as many ZPM, as they like, they have basically an unlimited supply.
I’ve always wondered if Onyx, and shield worlds like it, could be used as weapons. From what I’ve read when the sentinals combine the traits are basically added. So 2 put together is twice the power and shielding. So Onyx is made of multiple trillions of sentinals. So one sentinal’s power, shielding, range, and speed multiplied by say 2,000,000,000,000 to 4,000,000,000,000. I mean about 50 put together can compete with covenant capital ships.
you’re assuming no dimminishing return.
“We are told that a corrupted ZPM, has enough power to destroy an entire solar system, so the Ancients have a weapon of equal of greater power, that doesn’t even need a star to be present to use.
and since the Ancients can simply create as many ZPM, as they like, they have basically an unlimited supply.”
Then there’s the time Rodney accidentally blew up a solar system.
“Then there’s the time Rodney accidentally blew up a solar system.”
Oh, Project Arcturus. Such an underestimated and forgotten technology. An attempt to draw near-infinite energy from another universe that instead ended up flooding it with exotic, universe-destroying particles. How hilarious would it be if they somehow destroyed slipspace with it? I don’t even know if that’s possible (as I recall, Slipspace isn’t something that would work against) but it would really screw over the Forerunners if it worked.
“I’ve always wondered if Onyx, and shield worlds like it, could be used as weapons. From what I’ve read when the sentinals combine the traits are basically added. So 2 put together is twice the power and shielding. So Onyx is made of multiple trillions of sentinals. So one sentinal’s power, shielding, range, and speed multiplied by say 2,000,000,000,000 to 4,000,000,000,000. I mean about 50 put together can compete with covenant capital ships.”
One-hundred or more can kill small ships. I estimate a thousand or more would fire world-glassing beams. Two thousand or more would fuck up any ship.
And FOR ONCE, the Halos are an option. Oh, I’ve been waiting for this.
The Attaro device could be used to disrupt slipspace travel.
Shouldn’t we wait until the books actually come out, read them to see how screwed the forerunners are, THEN debate?
The attaro device would screw over both the forerunners FTL and the halo pulse.
Real gamechanger that one.
“One-hundred or more can kill small ships. I estimate a thousand or more would fire world-glassing beams. Two thousand or more would fuck up any ship.
And FOR ONCE, the Halos are an option. Oh, I’ve been waiting for this.
”
So after the halos are used it would be Asurans Vs sentinals… Yeah, that’s a good idea.
“The attaro device would screw over both the forerunners FTL and the halo pulse.
Real gamechanger that one.”
What device was this? I don’t remember it. It sounds awesome though.
A lot of what I’m about to post comes from the Halo 3 terminals found here halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals
“FTL is unknown. Ancients are fast. Forerunner are fast. However, we don’t yet know the exact speed of the Forerunner slipspace drive. The Ancients also have the unstable wormhole drive, which is near instantaneous travel. ”
thin I read somewhere the Forerunners could travel the galaxy in a few hours, but I’m not sure.
Numbers goes to the Forerunner in military, population is unknown though large for the Ancients.
“Weapons unknown, though probably to the Ancients. Their drones bypass shields.”
The Forerunner fleets had the ability to use stars as weapons, creating supernovae/black holes (depending on the star’s initial mass) and vaporizing entire solar systems.
Their combat skin was distributed to civilians once the Flood started getting serious. All Forerunner civilians wore combat skins 4 times more powerful then the MJOLNIR and standard Forerunner GI’s wore skins 6 times as powerful (343 Guilty Spark classifies MJOLNIR as class 2)
Shields are unknown, although Ancient ships can travel through stars.
While the physical Forerunner ship probably couldn’t, they techincally could if you take the parallel reality of slipspace into account, but we’ll have to see with Cryptum
Defenses unknown, probably go to Ancients. They have defense platforms and defense satelites. Though we are waiting for Cryptum.
Taking the UNSCSMAC that can fire at such a force it can gut two Covie ships and still have enough momentum to severely cripple/kill a third, and that this technology is based off of vastly inferior weapons used by the UNSC, the defenses could be drastic.
Technology. Whoa boy. Both are heavy hitters with their tech.
Ancients have their City Ships, smart weapons, nano technology, self sustaining seed ships and exploration ships, an actual FTL drive (not hyperspace), power generation due to their FTL drive, Zero Point energy, instantaneous universe-wide communication, beaming technology, cloaking, cold fusion, EM disruptor field, molecular construction, the Ark of Truth, personal shields, time travel, time dilation, time loops, Dakara superweapon, and last but not least, the Stargate System. Heavy hitters.
The Forerunner are not as well known yet. They have their keyships, battleships, light weapons,sentinels, onyx sentinels, shield worlds, micro dyson spheres, anti-gravity, very advanced AI’s, the Ark, and last but not least, the Halo Array.
Just some food for thought before Halo Cryptum is released. I’ll be getting it the day it comes out. Also, thanks Admin for posting.
This is actually a good match-up. It’ll be interesting to see what pops up.
Cant wait for Cryptum.
@CIDE
I’m getting the impression you do not see the Terminals as canon when the Halo Encyclopedia strictly states them as canon.
And in regards to you saying that–just because a Covie Supercarrier can be split down the middle by slipspace weapons–a Ancient ship cannot.
Slipspace bombs open a hole in the very fabric of the universe. Everyting it touches is taken into an alternate reality. Therefore, any form of phsical manner must be considered as susceptible to a slipspace rupture.
in fact, you seem to ignore some obviously stunning canon from Halo. A bit biased?
For example: Opinions are nice. No limits fallacy is too.
Sentinel production factories don’t stop producing them. A single factory created the Onyx Sentinel swarm, the size of a full planet, making this actualality, that there really are limitless sentinels.
“numbers go to Forerunners”
ORLY? When we have virtually no canonical information for them?
When we know the Medicant Bias had the capacity to control literally MILLIONS of Forerunner ships at once? Just his own fleet?
The Terminals are confirmed canon.
“The Forerunner fleets had the ability to use stars as weapons, creating supernovae/black holes (depending on the star’s initial mass) and vaporizing entire solar systems.”
We don’t know how they did this
Did it take a entire fleet?
was it a specialised ship?
was it a missile?
was it a Laser or particle beam?
how long did it take to do this?
was the fleet and or ship able to fight during this time?
all those questions need answering
“Their combat skin was distributed to civilians once the Flood started getting serious. All Forerunner civilians wore combat skins 4 times more powerful then the MJOLNIR and standard Forerunner GI’s wore skins 6 times as powerful (343 Guilty Spark classifies MJOLNIR as class 2)”
4&6 times what? enviromental protection?
Strength?
You don’t know all it says is that the MJOLNIR is a class 2
What is a Class 3? (or 4 5 and 6 for that matter)
what constitutes as a class 3? (or 4 5 and 6)
was it speed?
Provide a source if you can answer the question
————————————————————————————-
I’m going for the forerunners on this one
but hey who knows, what with the forerunner books almost out anything could happen
“I’m getting the impression you do not see the Terminals as canon when the Halo Encyclopedia strictly states them as canon.”
what Halo Encyclopedia states is canon is irrelevent to what the current IP holder(343 industries) states is canon
regardless
The Terminals are top tier Canon (Halo 3)
“I’m getting the impression you do not see the Terminals as canon when the Halo Encyclopedia strictly states them as canon.”
I never saw the terminals and James never cited a source. It’s also kind of his MO…
“And in regards to you saying that–just because a Covie Supercarrier can be split down the middle by slipspace weapons–a Ancient ship cannot.
Slipspace bombs open a hole in the very fabric of the universe. Everyting it touches is taken into an alternate reality. Therefore, any form of phsical manner must be considered as susceptible to a slipspace rupture.”
I never said it couldn’t. Just that a super carrier =/= ancient ship. They are several orders of magnitude apart.
“in fact, you seem to ignore some obviously stunning canon from Halo. A bit biased?”
I’ve debated on Halo’s side (or MC’s side for that matter) in several debates.
“For example: Opinions are nice. No limits fallacy is too.
Sentinel production factories don’t stop producing them. A single factory created the Onyx Sentinel swarm, the size of a full planet, making this actualality, that there really are limitless sentinels.”
Yes, but you still can’t say “unlimited” or “infinite”. Still required mass involved, time, etc. Saying “There’s a fucking lot of them” would mean a hell of a lot more than the claimed “infinite” numbers mentioned earlier.
“what Halo Encyclopedia states is canon is irrelevent to what the current IP holder(343 industries) states is canon
regardless
The Terminals are top tier Canon (Halo 3)”
Is there something other than a second hand interpretation to look at for the Terminals (I.E. halopedia) instead? Something like 343′s site or something?
“Is there something other than a second hand interpretation to look at for the Terminals (I.E. halopedia) instead? Something like 343′s site or something?”
yeah
haloterms.bungie.org/
Wow, the books aren’t even out yet, and everyone’s determined that the Forerunners are F*CKED with a capitle F.
Why am I not surprised that Halo loses this one?
Well, since the debates over, have you guys watched the Hammer man justice video on last recap?
“Wow, the books aren’t even out yet, and everyone’s determined that the Forerunners are F*CKED with a capitle F.”
No
The Debate is only getting started
once the first book comes out it will be a shitstorm…
“once the first book comes out it will be a shitstorm…”
Yeah, of stargate wankers.Almost no one on the halo side really cares anymore. Hell, I’M already giving up! All the intelligent people have already provided evidence that these super-wanked “ancients” are almost god-powerful (to me), and I already believe that the Halo rings are, for once, THE only way for halo to win. Of course, that could prove to be suicidal as well
And i read your comment about the skins. When Spark was referring to the MC’s, when he said that MC was only a class 2, I’m PRETTY sure he was talking combat wise, since speed isn’t really an option when an army of undead keep ambushing you from EVERYWHERE, and in large groups. So it was probably a reference to how much MC’s armor could protect him from danger. (Which is wierd, worked just fine)
@Michael:
It has nothing to do with us proclaiming victory (nor has it reached wanking levels yet) for the SG side. We mentioned a few things that Ancients would bring to the table. It was in fact the halo fans that–before any REAL data was brought to the table–that wanted to spout off shit about victory.
Especially when there was nothing really concrete in the information given. I get that it’s canon but all we know is that power armor was common place and they had an abundance of relatively weak sentinals (with few exceptions) and a bunch of nonsense about NLF.
Anyone mentioning victory (at least in my own posts) was comparing Ancients to the top tier we actually know about in Halo: the Covenant. And exactly how pathetic them aliens are in comparison.
“And i read your comment about the skins. When Spark was referring to the MC’s, when he said that MC was only a class 2, I’m PRETTY sure he was talking combat wise, since speed isn’t really an option when an army of undead keep ambushing you from EVERYWHERE, and in large groups. So it was probably a reference to how much MC’s armor could protect him from danger. (Which is wierd, worked just fine)”
We can assume all we want; until the book is out to highlight the specifics it could be resistance against radiation for all we know.
Yes, because the flood are not only super-powered parasites, they’re radioactive as well. That make sense.
I’m sticking with the overall protection, although you only really have protection from those little infection forms if you have an energy shield, or if you’re a Hunter, who are invulnerable to them for a reason i forgot (Or if you’re a bad-ass like sergeant johnson). And even shields aren’t really “proof” against them either (though that might only be game mechanics, didn;t really discuss it in the books, if you have any additional info on that plz tell me).
I never said the radioactive defense had to make sense. I just wouldn’t be surprised if it was something retarded like that coming from 343′s workshop.
Johnson had Borens syndrome so the flood couldn’t infect him.
@CIDE
AS much as I don’t want to believe you, you’re right. 343 must have been bitten by the retard bug more than three times
@chuck
LIAR!!!!
Actually, Boren’s syndrome was a cover-up. Johnson is a Spartan 1, one of the only surviving 2 (the other is Mendoza). All the drugs and stuff was super-hard-core, and probably was downgraded for the Spartan 2s (which still killed half of them)
He is a spartan I yes but he does have Borens syndrome.
Hmmm. I think we should look that up, just to be safe.
And even without it, the flood couldn’t take him anyway, for they are unable to cope with his level of supreme bad-ass-ness.Even hunters scramble for cover and pray when he’s around. Spark only got a lucky shot
“Slipspace bombs open a hole in the very fabric of the universe. Everyting it touches is taken into an alternate reality. Therefore, any form of phsical manner must be considered as susceptible to a slipspace rupture.”
I’m siding with Halo, but that’s not how Slipspace works.
Take a sheet of paper and run your hand along it. That’s normal space. Now fold it up a few times. Slipspace is like that, just making the area between you and your destination much shorter.
“Yeah, of stargate wankers.Almost no one on the halo side really cares anymore. Hell, I’M already giving up! All the intelligent people have already provided evidence that these super-wanked “ancients” are almost god-powerful (to me), and I already believe that the Halo rings are, for once, THE only way for halo to win. Of course, that could prove to be suicidal as well”
As was discussed in Halo vs Mass Effect, it’d be very difficult for Halo to move every species to a Shield World.
The Forerunners don’t have that problem. They could easily put every one of them into Dreadnoughts (which hold thousands at a time, and they have millions/billions) and get them there in just a few hours, a few days at most. Then, some brave “hero” ventures out, lights the rings, and dies taking the Ancients with them. After that, the Forerunners come out, kick the ass of everything/anything left behind, and win.
“or if you’re a Hunter, who are invulnerable to them for a reason i forgot”
They can’t be infected because they’re a bunch of worms in armor. What organs would they take control of?
Anyway, with the Onyx Sentinel’s combining ability, assuming they could combine indefinitely, they could potentially shoot beams that could seriously blow everything up. And by everything I mean anything thrown against them.
Of course, “assuming” led to my downfall in the Halo vs Mass Effect debate, so…