Suggested by Mike
Perhaps one of the most entertaining matches in quite a while here with two-time Hall of Fame winner Warhammer 40K going up against the Stargate universe.
Both sides are at their current incarnation, but gods (ie Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Malal/Malice, Gork and Mork, C’Tan), ascended beings (ie Anubis, Ancients, Ori), or any daemonic entity not currently bound in some way on the material realm (ie Daemonhost, possessed vehicles/individuals, etc), though present in their current forms, may not take any active role in the match.
The battle takes place in a neutral universe. This universe has a merged timeline, and all involved galaxies converge onto one spot; meeting into a syncronized orbit of one another.
Both sides are made aware of the oncoming battle and are given 1 month of prep-time to develop strategies, but may not use this time to build new ships, or develop/adapt new technologies. Space-time manipulation effects are permitted, but jumping to an earlier point in time is not.
Which side wins?
I don’t think the Necrons have the numbers to take the replicators.
Even if they do these will be replicators who have gorged themselves on Tau, Eldar, and Imperial tech.
that why my name is Sandiago Son of Fiery Warrior but thats a literal translation of it
but also guass flayers are just bad ass since they will kill Replicators and them turn the matter into feed for the ctan
and we dont know how many necrons there are
wait, if this is all races at their prime then it isn’t the necrons or eldar who are the major threat. That would be all the C’tan before they ate each other meaning at least several thousand beings that can bend reality to their will and devour entire stars in an instant. And before you say no ascended beings or gods, the C’tan are not gods nor did they ascend to their current power, they have existed since the formation of the Milky Way at the very least.
enough to have been well on their way to reap the entire 40k galaxy back in the day.
“Even if they do these will be replicators who have gorged themselves on Tau, Eldar, and Imperial tech.”
I’m nowhere near being an expert on WH40K beyond the basics of each race, but isn’t Necron technology superior to any other technology in the 40k universe anyway?
” I’m nowhere near being an expert on WH40K beyond the basics of each race, but isn’t Necron technology superior to any other technology in the 40k universe anyway?”
- By leaps and mudha-fukking bounds. Besides, the current forces we have seen are nothing more than scout elements. Tales and rumors hint to even worse things slowly awakening from the deeper catacombs.
The necrons are a galaxy spanning, all life extinguishing army of immortal ridiculously hyper advanced nigh-indestructable sentient nanotech deathbots made of living supermetal with a skull fetish that made physics their bitch.
Good luck countering that…
let us not forget the replicators produce an acid that has destroyed all material it has every come across, even the advanced super-strong alloys of the Asgard.
So the Replicators can simply swarm over any target, and dissolve it down, into material which then can consume to make more replicator blocks, such material will include Nids biomass and Necrodemis.
I can only imagine the havoc the SG side could reek with tollan phase technology, ships and troops immune to any weapons fire, bombs and missiles which ignore shields and bulkheads to reach their target.
And we are forgetting the advantage the SG side has with its Asgard beaming tech, they can easily transport down bio-weapons/shock troops/ high yield explosive, ba’al once used a bomb to destroy an entire solar system and his was just a simple system lord at the time.
Necrons are good, but stargate can destroy their tomb worlds with ease. A single prior dropped onto the world can create a force field, which gains power the more you attack it, and once powers crushes the planet into a black hole. Now Necrons are tough, but they couldnt survive being crushed in the middle of a black hole. However the main advantage stargate has is the time dilation and phase cloaking. They can get insanly more production time the the warhammer universe, as well as using it offensivly to trap any approaching fleet. They can also phase a planet into another dimension, making it untouchable, with the current power gen ability of the earth. That tech can be used on anything. Want to get some replicators thorugh void shields, phase them into another dimension, fly though, phase back. Fleet battle? Phase out, get in possition, phase back in and shoot, phase out ectect. Time control, dimension control and 2-3 ways of creating black holes means i cant see WH winning this.
Concerning the Necrons:
Yes, they’re very powerful, and may prove to be the reason 40k edges out SG However, we can only go with what we know they have. Even if 40k lore makes reference to unknown terrors that haven’t awakened yet (which it does), we don’t know the nature of these terrors, and therefore can’t effectively include them in an argument favouring either side. Let’s stick with what we know for sure, people.
Anyways, 40k vastly outnumbers everything in SG except perhaps the Replicators and Ori. Nobody has made a real comparison of their respective firepower yet. However, SG has a number of auxiliary technologies and abilities that could give them the advantage, including time dilation, time travel, vastly superior FTL to everyone except the Necrons, phasing technology (in at least one case on a planetary scale, and the ability to fight while phased out), ability to collapse planets into black holes, ability to resurrect their dead (from three different sources, no less), multiple weapons that shoot right through shields, ability to turn large numbers of enemy troops to their side via the Ark of Truth, infiltration abilities at least matching (if not surpassing) that of genestealer cults, and several factions would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to infiltrate in retaliation (most notably the Tok’ra and Replicators).
Also, just remembered, the System Lords (specifically Hathor and Seth) have access to at least two variations of a gas that causes any who inhale it to declare the Goau’ld who made it their god (it’s essentially chemical mind control). Both of the so named Goa’uld used it extensively (as in, hit every single one of their followers with it, and Hathor used it to take over almost the entire SGC).
I wonder what that gas would do to a Space Marine, Necron, Ork, or Tyranid o_O
Anyhow, if ascended beings aren’t allowed, is the GEoM in or out of this fight?
The GEoM is never used directly, immobilized as he is, but he has to have his passive effect here, otherwise the Imperium won’t be able to use their Warp travel.
Actually, with the Chaos Gods out of the match, the Warp is a shockingly easy place to travel. The Emperor isn’t needed to guide the Astropaths and the Warp becomes a much more viable method of travel.
During the heresy when the warp was eerily calm, a journey that would once have taken 18 months at FTL travel took some 39 days. (From The First Heretic).
Though, that said, how’re we using Daemons in this match? I assume they’re still around, along with the leaders, just not with the Gods knocking around.
Ironicly enough, the necrons are far more likely to have an easy time winning this if the other WH factions weren’t included…
“Ironicly enough, the necrons are far more likely to have an easy time winning this if the other WH factions weren’t included…”
Not especially. Having the Main base of operations located within the Webway and using warp-travel based hit-and-run attacks while unleashing Tyranid and Ork Boys at anything not a replicant would be devastating.
“basically you cant stop them by the laws of physics since they made it their lapdog”
Nowhere in your copy/paste of the wiki does it appear to be true that the time dilation field will not work on them. Furthermore, I don’t think you get how it works. It slows down time inside the bubble. You can’t escape its effects unless you have a shield that protects you from the effects. Having a piece of metal that was forged by their advanced knowledge of physics is not equatable to having a shield.
By the way I created thread on this on SpaceBattles.com.
Here is the link.
forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=177133
I was under the impression that the necrons no longer HAVE their ultra high tech, they simply ARE the tech but are now nearly mindless since they were tricked into transferring into the metal bodies. While they still have all the nastiness they built eons ago they have what they have and nothing else, no ability to develop anything new in response to enemy tech or even make inspired innovative use of what they already have.
Like most of the fantasy games such as the original warhammer the various races had a heyday far in the past and lost much of the technology in one way or another which leaves the current people running around questing for artifacts of that time to do what they can no longer create something to do. The tau seem to be the only faction that still has all of their science and innovation intact and are still advancing, yet they are probably the newest and lowest tech of the factions and have a long way to go to catch up with the older ones.
Stargate tech has some of that losttech aspect as well with the ancients, but their primary sciences are in full swing and very adaptive and innovative and in the case of the tau’ri is advancing extremely rapidly and integrating the various different technology they come in contact with into something more than just the sum of the parts. While wh40k has the advantage in the mindless violence department that would allow them to make tremendous inroads on the stargate forces early on, stargate flexibility and adaptability would eventually shift the advantage to the stargate side if they can survive wh40k’s onslaught long enough.
“but are now nearly mindless”
You really underestimate Necrons,C’Tan aren’t needed that bad,they have Necron Lord who direct them.
AH I am a massive stargate fan, or I was before SG universe made it boring. SG1 and Atlantis are 2 of the best tv shows ever, even though SG1 went on to long and didn’t quit while it was ahead and Atlantis was cancelled way before it ran its course. I have also been recently introduced to the warhammer 40k universe. So my knowledge is limited to a point considering most of what I have read is heresy/great crusade era.
So what would happen if the stargate universe(es) fought the wh40k universe? They would get slaughtered. Carnage and death on an unparalleled level and it wouldn’t even slow the imperium down.
The reason 40k is so powerful and wins most of these, is that it is thousands of years in the future, and these thousands of years have been spent perfecting the art of warfare on a galactic scale that is fully sustainable.
Firstly, weaponry, there are hundreds if not thousands of worlds in the 40k universe that are simply giant factories and industrial worlds that make the tools of war. Be it guns, armour, ships, titans, tanks, thunderhawks etc etc. These worlds are needed as thousands of wars are fought throughout the galaxy at any one point.
The armies in the 40k universe include the imperial guard, which number in the hundreds of billions. A massive galaxy wide force of highly trained humans with a massive fleet of warships numbering in the hundreds of thousands.
Then you have the Astrates/space marine legions. These highly trained genetically enhanced, immortal super soldiers are the perfect soldiers, chosen from the most promising humans at an early age they are implanted with the gene of a primarch or in some cases the emperor. They have 2 hearts, 3 lungs, 2 sets of rib cages, one of which is a shell protecting all their organs, there 7-8 feet tall, impossibly strong and move faster than any human could ever hope to move. They feel no fear, or pity. They use machine guns with highly explosive ammo and use chain swords as mele weapons while wearing power armour that renders most conventional weapons useless against them. They make the kull warriors look like pansies. They train for hours every day, and there are millions of them.
However, space marines are just humans with a little bit of primarch thrown into the mix… The primarchs are genetically superior in every way. The emperor of mankind made 20 (well 21 Alpharius had a twin). They are 8-10 feet tall, and vastly superior to space marines in every war, a space marine is just a pale shadow of his primarch.
For example fact pile favourite Khârn was born a human, he had the gene sede of angron, who was a primarch, implanted into him, Khârn is a beast, an unstoppable berserker who wins most of his battles here, but angron is 100 times more dangerous. If you have read tales of heresy, when the emperor finds angron, he introduces him to his legion. Angron promptly kills nearly all of its leadership, including its first captain. Khârn is instantly overwhelmed, angron moves too fast for even him to see, holds down his body with one hand and almost casually breaks half the bones in his body, and there are far more powerful primarchs than angron. Magnus the Red has psychic, telekenetic and warp powers so vast that he could throw bolts of lightning from his finger tips, fire balls from his eyes, and contact others who were on the other side of the galaxy. And his powers are a distant second to the emperors. Nothing in the stargate universes could kill any one of these superhuman beings asides from blowing up the planet there on. Not to mention the eldar, chaos, tyranids, necrons etc etc.
Yes here are loads of powerful races in the stargate canon, such as the ori, asgard, Goa’uld, replicators etc. None of these could stand against the war machine. It is simply a matter of genetic superiority. That and the imperium would eliminate the Goa’uld and jaffar on principle due to their hate of aliens. The asgard as well as the wraith would be slaughtered for being xenos. The replicators would be a threat but they can only resist energy weapons, and the space marines use high explosive armour piercing rapid fire weaponry.
Long story short, the 40k universe is a universe in constant war, so it has adapted to do so. The stargate universe just doesn’t have the technology, numbers, or the genetic superiority of the space marines and their primarchs.
“there are millions of them”
There is only one million,more or less.
“There is only one million,more or less.”
there should be, but several chapters have higher number just because they don’t give a damn about that rule. The Black Templars, for instance, have around 6000 men despite not being allowed to have more than 1000 at any one time.
I believe that there are more than a million of them,because 1000 thing is just nominal and even then that number doesn’t include Captains,Librarians,Techmarines,Company Champions,Standard Bearers and Honor Guard.
Also, nobody can account for chaos marines right?
@raider
You might be a fan of stargate but with your knowledge of it I dont think you have ever seen the show. This whole battle really comes down to a space conflict. This battle actually largly mimics the Ancient/Wraith battle. Stargate has the Tech. 40K has the numbers with some very powerfull beings. But the Stargate Universe(s) has some really advance tech now such as phase technology and the Ark of Truth. They could phase out, use the Ark and just watch the 40K Universe pull it self apart (not literally).
Also with time dialation fields it could millions of years (relative to anyone outside) for the conflict to end within the 40K. So even if the ones not effected by the Ark won they would exit the field with diminished numbers. Then the SGU(s) could just repeat this process untill nearly nothing remains.
Sorry but the ark of truth wouldn’t work, doesn’t it require people to be linked in some way, such as the priors? Sorry but my memory was a little hazy of that terrible TV movie where they pulled a magic box out of their asses as they couldn’t think of any other way to deal with the ori.
And the time dilation devices only one ship has access to them and the old sam that we saw at the end of unending was killed, so current sam wouldn’t have the knowledge to use it. And the replicators were able to overcome the time dilation device and being thrown into a black whole. Necrons are far more powerful than the replicators ever were and they are still held more or less at bay by the imperium.
I really don’t understand the fan wanking on this site, so what If I am a fan of stargate and 40k? It doesn’t affect my judgement of who would win if each universe united and fought it out. I am a bigger fan of stargate and have been for more than 10 years, its just a simple fact that the 40k universe is just one massive war machine, and if united, they would obliterate the stargate universe.
The largest advantage for stargate would be the travel. There FTL is superior, but I doubt any planets could hold there own if the imperium, orks, tyranids or any of the races from 40k showed up.
@Ivan
I created an account on Spacebattles but I still can’t post? whats up?
“Sorry but the ark of truth wouldn’t work, doesn’t it require people to be linked in some way, such as the priors?”
No it doesn’t. They used it on one tactic on one prior who was linked with the other priors to spread the hurt quickly. Anybody who looks into the light will be effected.
“And the time dilation devices only one ship has access to them and the old sam that we saw at the end of unending was killed, so current sam wouldn’t have the knowledge to use it.”
Wrong again. The Asgard are present in this fight. So therefore, they can do it all they wan’t. And seeing as how Sam learned of the time dilation on the Odyssey in a pinch, she could very well learn it again.
“And the replicators were able to overcome the time dilation device and being thrown into a black whole.”
The Replicator’s didn’t over come the device at all. They reversed it with their understanding of Asgard technology. So even though they spent 10,000 years reversing it, they sped it up so they caught back up with out timeline.
What Eric said…
Don’t the Necrons also have time dilation fields? also time travel is possible via the warp.
@Eric
Post in the introduction forums,your first post needs to be moderated,but beware SpaceBattles is nasty forum,also don’t say anything stupid near white_rabbit(40k expert,also ask Captain Orsai for the info about 40 or ask Connor MacLeod,you also have DrStrangeLove).
“Don’t the Necrons also have time dilation fields? also time travel is possible via the warp.”
Necrons have stasis fields which stop time,it is possible to go backwards in time in warp,but it’s rare(One ork did that and killed past himself to get another version of his favorite gun),time passes in the warp differently(one day in warp is an equal of more days in realspace).
Then we have places in Eldar webway in which time stops,goes backwards or even towards future.
Well lets just compare powers.
Stargate against 40k
Planet Killing? Yes not a default tactic
Ground Combat? No
Space Combat? No (imo at least, Eldar ships, and Necron ships and Tyranid hive ships, I think they can beat em in space, it’s not just the IoM.)
War Economy? No
40k vs Stargate.
Planet Killing? Yes
Ground Warfare? Yes
Space Combat? Yes
War Economy? Yes
whilst time travel is possible with the warp, it is only the chaos gods who could manipulate to be of any use and there not allowed in this match.
Otherwise, a vessel might arrival at its destination before it set off or 1000 years later.
And for every hive world with billions of IG, there is probably a dozen iron age worlds with mere handfuls of savages, however neither or these will be the SG or the replicators to be precise first target, they will head to the closest forge world, since it has the most advanced tech.
From their they will continue to hit forge world after forge world, crippling the IoM as it goes along since their isn’t a hope in a hell the Imperial/AdMech navies could respond to any distress signal in time.
This is what is going to bring them down, whilst the IoM has huge firepower and numbers to throw around, it doesn’t have the speed in order to use them, especially before the SG side can destroy their support structure, without dockyards, spaceports, refueling stations, those huge ships are going to become nothing but floating tombs.
This is when Necrons come into play,given the properties of Necrodermis/living metal nanotech (or even nanowank) is probably rather primitive/ineffectual by comparison. (living metal seems far more fluid, far more pervasive, far more sentient/subtle, and vastly harder to eradicate.)
AT the very least, necrodermis is going to be the equal of any of the nanowank, and probably vastly superior to it. The Necrodermis/living metal is one of the main reasons I think outright sterilization is so neccessary in fact. I bet that shit can be as damn near hard to stamp out as a Tyranid/Ork infestation.
” AT the very least, necrodermis is going to be the equal of any of the nanowank, and probably vastly superior to it. The Necrodermis/living metal is one of the main reasons I think outright sterilization is so neccessary in fact. I bet that shit can be as damn near hard to stamp out as a Tyranid/Ork infestation. ”
From the description in the lexicanum it sounds like it is supposed to be some kind of advanced nanotech material. The essence transfer or whatever it was called could be kind of like downloading their minds into the nanoprocessor arrays which could be why they lost any psionics they might have once had, the ‘soul’ may not have been moved, just a kind of mental pattern.
Necrons don’t have any circuits or something like that they are lumps of Necrodermis and this is proved when one regenerates from a puddle of molten metal.
” And for every hive world with billions of IG, there is probably a dozen iron age worlds with mere handfuls of savages”
- Assumption. Don’t do that shit.
And every hive world has 100-500 billion inhabitants from which 10% are drawn into PDF and only the best of them are recruited into IG and that still gives us high number and there is 32k+ hive worlds.
Again we have low-end examples in Dark Heresy which give double digit figures.
If they were fine-grained enough the effect would be the same either way. Loosing cohesion into microscopic clumps of nanomachines a few molecules across would not look any different from regular molten metal and as the nanomachines recovered from the blast that did that to them they would rebuild the structure which would look like the thing reforming out of a pool of molten metal. Of course it could be some kind of complex psionic imprint on the metal or something, but the nanites are the simpler more likely possibility, especially for a high-tech race instead of mystics though either would fit the rather vague discription.
That’s the thing,Necron bodies are containers for their souls which are very weak in terms of warp presence,but still souls.
Also official fluff states that.
That is possible too, even organic bodies are a kind of machine.
Yes,but Necron bodies are not made form organic materials.Their ships are made from same material as their bodies.
Gauss weapons fully vaporise an ork instantly which gives us hundreds of megajoules or even a gigajoules since orks are a bit heavier and larger than humans.
Is it the kinetic force of the gauge round that atomizes the target or is it some kind of energy discharge that follows the projectile that does it?
There really are no comparable feats as far as I know to a physical projectile that powerful. At least by the standards in SG no hand held weapon did anything to even slow down a human form replicator (though the bugs went down with 2-3 5.7mm rounds). As far as energy weapons are concerned someone above even mentioned tanking shops from a ship.
Nothing in the form of a kinetic shot.
On a side note would the anti-replicator weapons work at all agaisnt ‘crons? Not so much as-is but the mechanics behind the weapons. Essentially a pulse of energy that disrupts the communication between individual cells. Basically makes cohesion impossible and the blocks/cells fall apart and remain inert.
SG replicators (all types) have since become immune to these assaults. I’m just wondering if this technology would be useful at all.
The opposite too was used as a weapon. Rather than letting the individual cells fall apart they later increased the pull between cells and caused all the Asuran replicators on the planet and in orbit to gather into a single super-dense mass. So dense in fact that it busted the planet and eventually caused the destruction of all Asurans that were pulled into the mix.
I’m assuming the “soul” bit would make these difficult. I just thought I’d ask.
Necron gauss guns are a form of magnetic “shear” weapon that literally flays matter, peeling away the victim’s atoms one layer at a time. There weapons are known to completely ignore shields and disintigrate even the strongest of materials (including adamantium).
This should be a devestating weapon against the replicators, as it will tear apart the individual blocks and nanite cells at the atomic level.
“This should be a devestating weapon against the replicators, as it will tear apart the individual blocks and nanite cells at the atomic level.”
How many shots can a Necron warrior get off, before being overwhelmed by a swarm of replicators.
” How many shots can a Necron warrior get off, before being overwhelmed by a swarm of replicators.”
……….. you need to give more specifics then that. ‘How many shots can he get off before he is overwhelmed’ – get my meaning?
Gauss weapons for infantry range from hundreds of megajoules to gigajoules.
“……….. you need to give more specifics then that. ‘How many shots can he get off before he is overwhelmed’ – get my meaning?”
Let me rephrase for him… How many Replicators could the gauss weapon kill when there is a swarm of over a hundred?
Hmm…
It’s a standard rapid fire 24″ weapon game wise so I’d say it has the same rate of fire as an assault or battle rifle. Add to this the one hit kill tendency of Gauss weaponry and I’d say they’re a bit faster than tau’ri with fully automatic shotguns.
My vote is for stargate.
Gut what if SG gods would own the gods of warhammer?
Omega, read the description.
@Belisaurius
For the love of god don’t use game mechanics.
Thing is, its not fair the ascended beings aren’t included as even if they were and still sided with the stargate universe, they still wouldn’t save it. I mean a lot of deamons in 40k are just as powerful as the ascended beings, and the deamon princes, deamon primarchs and primarchs themsleves are considerably more powerful. I mean chaos gods and the emperor during the heresy (he as much as he said he wasn’t was a god) fair enough as their power is absolute. But not including the ascended beings really makes this a one sided fight.
huh, when i put in a request for this battle i didn’t know it would side towards SG so much because of tech. i don’t know much about 40k, but from what i did know they seemed extremely overpowered and the only universe i could think of to fight them fairly equally was SG at full power. just figured i’d sit back and watch the debate. well if it helps seal the deal here’s links to some of the tech in the SG universe, with the episodes to go with. it actually has links to anything you want to know about sg from any race.
stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/Technology_of_the_Asgard
stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/Nox
stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/Ancient_Knowledge_and_Technology
and even the only mention of the furlings
stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/Furlings
that’s the four races that made up “the great alliance” that almost all tech in the sg universe is derived from.
@BC Necrons aren’t really mindless seeing as they responded to the threat of humans be combining them with living metal (pariahs). Although the tech for this might be old they still ‘invented’ a new way to fight.
I don’t think the time meddling that SG uses would hold back the 40k universe for long, seeing as the technology used to make it is based on the physical properties of the universe and not deities or magic right?
And i’m pretty sure psykers from 40k are beings who can use the energy of the warp to change the physical nature of the universe around them. even though chaos psykers are called sorcerers and the eldar haven’t really explained how they do it, the golden age of the Mankind could explain psychic power with science.
So what wins, really advanced tech from SG universe or the ability to manipulate the laws that tech is based on?
Amusingly, one of the things that make it so one-sided is the fact that StarGate races can do what most other fictions Gods could only dream of. Mass Time Dilation is a hell of a boon, and as with most 40K matches, the crippling lack of comparative speed really puts them on the back foot.
Still, its a fun match, and there has yet been a counter placed forward against the Webway or fleeing to the Warp.
Nor have the 40K buffs mentioned some of the more powerful entities. Enslavers, Omega-level Psykers, C’tan, the likes of Captain Lysander and his habit of teleporting into places and trashing them with his thunder hammer. Stasis Grenades that do much the same as Time Dilation fileds, albeit on a smaller scale. Void weapons and D-Cannons, which create blackholes or just sheer destruction.
Hell, we’ve barely mentioned daemons, and the usefulness of Psykers and their precognition. Eldar Farseers have been known to redirect whole fleets with little effort.
The game has yet begun.
@ridwan
-they would need to change the laws of physics throughout the whole universe for it to be effective against some of the galaxy affecting tech sg has. can they do this? i’m not well versed in 40k. and you would have to be really specific on how they alter reality, there are lots of different ways. st’s warp drives alter reality, transphasic cloaking alters reality,lots of things in sci-fi alter reality. the nox can even at will make things invisible and non touchable/seeable as if it wasn’t there at all(probably another dimension but doesn’t give specifics) with no tech, and even resurect people without tech.
sweet, i knew there was alot more to it. this should be a good fight. just need to get some 40k and stargate nuts to see it.
-on a side note, i just realized the only reason i watched most of the stargate episodes was because i liked the aliens that already have or were about to kill off…………what the hell?
I’d like to see the Jaffa face off with the Imperial Guard.
@Mike
the whole universe? No. Galaxy scale… i think if every psyker in the milkyway combined their knowledge and power i have no doubt they could. But that won’t happen.
Examples…bending space and time to avoid bullets, altering the minds of other beings,summoning daemons (using energy from the warp to make a physical body), literally removing a soul from reality.(EoMK), creating new dimensions in real space. If you read the books then it makes it pretty clear that a psyker can do anything. Although some of the feats might just be plot devices…
and by anything i don’t mean like making the galaxy a unicorn, i just mean stuff that would be unthinkable and impossible in normal conditions. Best i can think of for that is a bullet that summons a daemon when it hits.
Sg is full of mysterys most notable is the furling WTF
@Belisaurius
Pitting SG vs 40k in ground match just isn’t fair because 40k stomps them there.
@ridwan
-the only powers that the psykers can use is the ones they already have shown to be able to do, the rest is speculation.
@ridwan
-the only powers that the psykers can use is the ones they already have shown to be able to do, the rest is speculation.
@Jhud
-there is a little bit know of the furlings and it’s all in one episode and it doesn’t show much tech other than teleporting. it’s in the link i gave a few posts back.
Psykers can combine themselves,look at the God Emperor of Mankind he is a collection of the souls of the ancient shamans who commited mass suicide to prevent Chaos from consuming their souls so they created the Emperor.
“about 40k, but from what i did know they seemed extremely overpowered and the only universe i could think of to fight them fairly equally was SG at full power”
So you’ve never heard of Culture,Xeelee,Downstreamers,Lensman verse etc….
The Empire from the Ashes-verse could and they only own part of a single galactic arm.
@Ivan tlh
-actually i was just rudely introduced to the xeelee by someone on the andromeda vs st ship(whatever class it was) thread, and haven’t heard of the others you mentioned. don’t have much time to read anymore, although i suppose i could read instead of post on here, but this seems like much more fun right now.
Thing is the warp bypasses all meaning of time, I mean you can go in for a journey and come out 10,000 years later or arrive years earlier. Deamons are beings of the warp, and could easily manipulate it to their will. There are people arguing that asgard time dialation devices would be the saving grace of the SG universe, against deamons, chaos marines such as thousand suns, it would be useless.
When it comes to tech it is hard to know who has the more powerful battleships, the asgard and ori or the necrons, eldar, IOM etc. However 40k certainly has the advantage with military numbers, untold billions of imperial guard, a million space marines which make the kull warriors look like my little pony, hundreds of trillions of orks, a few billion eldar who exist on craft worlds (planet sized warships). Then you have the legions of chaos and deamon armies.
The bigest advantage the SGU would have is a vastly beter FTL system. There are no deamons in there sub space, and due to the nature of the warp, filled with beings that are powerful beyond comprehension, erratic time shifts, difficulty of navigation etc, it gives the SGuniverse a big advantage when it comes to travel. This would come in useful when they realise they have to run the hell away.
Thats an interesting point raider.
The thing that makes the warp so dangerous to travel and unpredicatble is that the ships are basically flying through psychotic sentient matter. Now, if daemons are removed along with the Gods, then warp travel becomes far far quicker.
If they’re explicitely on 4oK’s side however, we can have all sorts of fun. The warp has been known to send people back in time due to daemonic devilment after all.
“Now, if daemons are removed along with the Gods, then warp travel becomes far far quicker.”
I saved a quote from the 40k novel “Ghostmaker” which tells us how fast warp travel may be with a calm Warp.
“The frigate’s bridge was Kreff’s favorite place in the universe. It was hushed like a chapel and always serene, even though it controlled a starship capable of crossing parsecs in a blink, a starship with the firepower to roast cities.” – Ghostmaker, Pg. 39
Parsecs in a blink implies that an Imperial ship can cross well over 3 light years in seconds. Possibly hundreds of millions of times faster than light speed. A vessel could fly across a galaxy in a few hours at those speeds.
——
This quote doesn’t have anything to do with the above. Just a random one right here that gives an idea of the size of a planetary invasion. Also, note the 20 kilometer Imperial warships.
“He returned to his study of the vast bright bulk of Caligula below him, plump and puffy like an orange, speckled with white-green blotches of mould.
Imperial starships hung in the blackness between it and him: some vast, grey and vaulted like cathedrals twenty kilometres long, some bloated like oceanic titans; others long, lean and angular like his own frigate. They floated in the sea of space and tiny black dots, thousands upon thousands of dots, tumbled out of them, fluttering down towards the ripe planet. Kreff knew the dots were troop-ships: each speck was a two-hundred tonne dropcraft loaded with combat-ready troops. But they looked just like pepper ground from a mill. As if the Imperial fleet had come by to politely season Caligula.” – Pg. 40
Ori ships are huge as well, and are powered by a singularity. A wraith ship on the ground was mistaken for a mountain in the first Atlantis episode. Some of the ancients ships are pretty big too.
Proctors, nox, and a number of other types would be able to compete with psykers on an even level from what i have read on the web.
One of the posts here or on the other current wh40k thread quoted something about the warp going calm for a short time, and the travel speed for whatever mission it was went from months to days, not hours.
The warp demons would most likely be disqualified due to the parameters of the match, just like the ori ‘demons’.
“quoted something about the warp going calm for a short time, and the travel speed for whatever mission it was went from months to days, not hours.”
Apparently that area of the Warp wasn’t as calm. Varying levels of calmness?
Crossing parsecs in a few seconds would take hours at most.
“The warp demons would most likely be disqualified due to the parameters of the match, just like the ori ‘demons’.”
How so?
They’re not Ascended beings or Gods.
I can’t believe this debate got past the first page. Come on now it’s pretty clear that the chaos gods would wipe the floor with everything in starcraft, mostly because, when present in the warp and material universe, alter reality to fit there whims and desires and since there going to be in this fight at there strongest means that there is an 0% chance starcraft can in.
“starcraft can in”
……Stargate can win.
“Both sides races at their height and no gods/ascended beings.”
Oh. I didn’t see that when I made my original posts. Well that still leaves greater demons and psykers. The use of warp-spawned powers would be devastating to stargate.
Necrons have a similar device to the asgard time dialation devices which slows down enemies in battle so they would be able to if i am correct speed up time or simply jump out of the area effected by it.
but if i am correct this is voided by the fact thats this battle happens right at the planet so all forces are there so in order to use it all their forces have to leave before it is activated or it is point less right and also necrons would if correct just jump strait to asgard ships as soon as the battle starts or the entire WH40k side can just webgate out or load up with necrons to leave….
Why does 40k get to keep most of it’s supernatural beings, but all of Stargate’s are barred from this?
So far people haven’t said much about the Tyranids. According to the 5th edition rulebook, they have a dozen galaxies under their collective belt. The Stargate races are massively outnumbered here. Not to mention that the Tyranids will always have perfect coordination, thanks to their Hive Mind. This gives 40k another advantage, as the Tyranids can execute multiple perfectly timed strikes on valuable enemy targets. What does Stargate have to counter this?
“Why does 40k get to keep most of it’s supernatural beings, but all of Stargate’s are barred from this?”
Because most of 40K is supernatural beings, and removing them would be like removing the Force from Star Wars.
And, be fair, Stargate is at an advantage even without their ascended beings (not that I know what difference they could make, I’ve no idea what they are.)
If we are going to actually go along with tactics of every race in Star Gate Ganging up(Despite many being mortal enemies), then what happens when 40k’s Factions to do the same?
For every one SG ship that prepares to go on a lol-extermenatus Spree, will find a Fleet waiting for them above every world they hyper to. While they lack the FTL speeds of SG, what they have instead is PreCog, and with them all on the same side, they won’t have to chase them down; for every System SG forces jump into will be a trap, with dozens of ships waiting under Holo and Shadow Fields.
40k will be able to simply grind down the SG forces to nothing.
And then they will counterattack. Necron vessels carrying Chaos cults to open up warp rifts in the SG galaxy, to speed the process between the 40k galaxy to the galaxies of SG. Imperial ships jumping to each target under the guidance of the eldar Farseers, Not blindly flailing about, raining down Viral bombs and Cylonic torpedos. Black stone fortresses coming out to Destroy hardened planets and colapse stars. The System lords will find their domains fall to the Green tides of the Orks, The Wraith to the Chittering Horde of the Tyranids.
Entire Sections of space simply dropped into the Warp.
” So far people haven’t said much about the Tyranids. According to the 5th edition rulebook, they have a dozen galaxies under their collective belt. The Stargate races are massively outnumbered here. Not to mention that the Tyranids will always have perfect coordination, thanks to their Hive Mind. This gives 40k another advantage, as the Tyranids can execute multiple perfectly timed strikes on valuable enemy targets. What does Stargate have to counter this? ”
Stargate has replicators which are pretty much the same, only faster. While one is organic and the other is inorganic that does not prevent them from killing each other and neutralizing each others advantages that way,
” “Why does 40k get to keep most of it’s supernatural beings, but all of Stargate’s are barred from this?”
Because most of 40K is supernatural beings, and removing them would be like removing the Force from Star Wars.
And, be fair, Stargate is at an advantage even without their ascended beings (not that I know what difference they could make, I’ve no idea what they are.) ”
By the same token the ascended are just as integral to stargate but they are barred, and from the talk here the warp demons are as powerful as the independent ascended like Morgan or Merlin who do not have the full power of their collective (or whatever you would call it) to draw on. So by that the warp demons (or at least the more powerful ones, the lower powered ones may be the equivalent of a proctor which are not barred, but I am not too familiar with warp demons to know for sure) would also be barred from the fight though they may exist as non-participating background or something (if they are that integral then that is probably the case).
With Tzeench, the Deceiver, Eldar farseers, Ahriman, mind-affecting psykers, and the Callidus temple assasins all working togeather, i can just see the entire SG fleet being sent straight into the heart of the eye of terror. (I know Chaos gods and C’tan are probably banned but it still amuses me)
Its an interesting point, though, I’ve never heard of the Ascended in my on-off watching of Stargate, and Chaos Daemons are rather integral to 40k’s mythos.
That said, if people decide daemons make the match unbalanced then I suppose dropping them. We still have Eldars with their shadowfields, Dark eldar with their ridiculous regeneration, Wraithguard and Terminators with their general awesome and the odd superweapon to rely on.
“Stargate has replicators which are pretty much the same, only faster. While one is organic and the other is inorganic that does not prevent them from killing each other and neutralizing each others advantages that way,”I’m pretty sure the replicators didn’t consume organics and they only consumed the highest levels of technology available.
That’s all nice but when we throw warp powers into the mix there is no way the replicators can defend against it. The replicators would be destroyed or corrupted easily since they would be up against lords of changes and great unclean ones.
“I’ve never heard of the Ascended in my on-off watching of Stargate”
I’ve actually seen a portion of an episode about the ascended. I think there what happens when people or creatures evolve to a state where they don’t need physical matter or some shit like that.
” That’s all nice but when we throw warp powers into the mix there is no way the replicators can defend against it. The replicators would be destroyed or corrupted easily since they would be up against lords of changes and great unclean ones. ”
It is very unlikely the the ‘lords of changes’ would have any effect on the replicators at all since they no way of perceiving mystical phenomenon and so are immune to them. Psionics and magic simply do not exist for them and neither would the warp. They would be like the cristian viking in that weird comedy movie where the vikings were running around valhalla he saw nothing but tundra and did things like walk through the wall of odins castle because for him it did not exist. Physical things like the tyranids however would simply be another biological lifeform to them and they would deal with them the same way the did the wraith or any other life form.
” I’ve actually seen a portion of an episode about the ascended. I think there what happens when people or creatures evolve to a state where they don’t need physical matter or some shit like that. ”
In a very basic way that is correct, and the ascended are very powerful. They can also use the mental energies of those who think of them to add to their power which is why the ori set up a religion that spans their galaxy, to harvest that power for their own use. The ascended of the milky way and andromeda galaxies were at a kind of cold war with them that turned hot in the last season or so of the show and so there was a kind of proxy war between the ori galaxy and the milky way galaxy physical beings with the ascended playing their usual manipulation games in the background.
@fisherking
Yeah your correct about the statement about the Ascended. Its when they have such a high mental state that the energy that makes up their physical self turns into pure energy. They exist on a whole other plane but then can come down to the human plane. They have the ability to bend reality to their will. They can literally do anything they wish. It dosnt really matter in this scenario though because they are not allowed.
That’s not how the Warp works mind you.
The Empyrean is may not be a material/physical reality but it is a an intangible/energy reality. As any good Priest of the Ministorum will tell you, just because you don’t know about Chaos doesn’t mean you can’t be corrupted by one and have a tentacle grow out of your chest.
Effects like warp fire and lightning. The physical effects that the psykers can bring into the world through their link to the warp are VERY real.
In fact the supreme masters of the material cosmos the C’tan were only held at bay by the raw warp power of the Old Ones creations.
Don’t cut down psykers just cause you want the replicators to be “l33t unstoppable” Plenty of l33t unstoppable to go around in the 40k verse.
@BC
Let me ask you a serious question, are you retarded? You must be because every time I read your posts I am left in a state of awe at how stupid they are. Seriously when the fuck does not being able to “mystical phenomenon” make something immune to it? Then there is the fact that you would also have to prove that replicators can’t perceive “mystical phenomenon”. A single lord of change was able to alter everything on an entire planet. I don’t have the blood angels omnibus with me right now so I can’t give a direct quotation but everything, from organic to inorganic substances, were being horribly mutated like rocks spewing rivers of blood and people growing wings that have eyes instead of feathers. WIth a lord of change on the scene, the replicators are going to be fucked. That really counts for all greater daemons.
@DC
that was really funny like fisherking said are you ?
Proctors powers (which are mystical) had no effect on replicators and they do not interact in any way with psionic phenomenon, that is what that is based on.
Most of the ‘hell on earth’ or chuthulu type reality twisting is usually depicted as some kind of mystic overlay over reality in most horror stories, even those with a sci-fi background like event horizon. That is why things always seem like normal mundane situations at first and then slowly drift into the twilight zone as the evil gets its toehold and seeps in. Such a thing would not effect the replicators since they could not be drawn into the effect. Of course the writers of the wh40k novels or whatever may not follow that kind of tradition any more than they follow the game itself in what they write, but that still does not mean they can override the established properties of units from other universes. Replicators would not be able to be effected by direct mystical means from the warp because they cannot in their own universe. Now if the mystic type summoned a real physical monster from somewhere and set it against the replicators that is an entirely different thing and would effect them unlike ‘corrupting’ them or some other mystical nonsense like spewing blood or growing eyes on their ass or whatever. And if you say that proctors are not mystical enough since they do not use the warp then too bad, because the warp does not exist in the stargate universe so there is no direct canon examples of anything in it interacting with the warp so the proctors who are as mystical as it gets in the sgu will have to do.
To top it all off if those ‘lords of change’ are the equivalent of major demons they would not be involved since the ‘no gods/ascended beings’ rule would exclude them from consideration in this match.
Warp isn’t mysticism it is a fundamental foundation of reality within the 40k verse. It’s physical effects within reality can’t be denied.
Replicators would be affected by Force Lightning from star wars.
Replicators would be affected by warp lightning just as well. It’s energy not “magic”
“Replicators would be affected by Force Lightning from star wars.
Replicators would be affected by warp lightning just a well. It’s energy not “magic”
Lightning probably isn’t the best example for dealing with replicators. Energy is not the best weapon against them.
If they do something that produces real world energy effects like real lightning the replicators would be effected of course (by recharging them in the case of lightning), if that is what it is actually doing, but the horror factor stuff like corruption or mind control, or fear or any of that would not effect them at all, neither would ‘solid illusion’ type things or anything that depended on ‘superimposing the warp’ on physical reality or ‘connecting them to the warp’ or anything like that. If a warp demon was standing in front of them they would not even see it unless it had a normal mundane physical body instead of something formed with their powers, would not hear it unless it spoke by vibrating the air in a normal physical way, and if not would walk right through it like it did not exist, which for them it simply would not.
The replicators were designed to fight an enemy (the wraith) who use spiritual attacks as a large part of their repertoire, so they were specifically grounded to mundane reality only. Think of them as walking (or slithering or however else they decide to move) little blocks of anti-magic, or more precisely little voids where magic or mystic/spiritual things simply do not exist. Things without physical eyes would not even be able to see them. The only exception would be Dr. Weyr who was slowly converted to a replicator/human hybrid who seems to have retained her soul or spirit or whatever.
If replicators boarded a wh40k ship that then slipped into warp space then there is a very good chance that the ship would simply fade out of reality from the point of view of the replicators and they would be left floating in space. If on the other hand they went with he ship then the warp would would just be nothingness from their point of view. Unlike humans or any other being with physical and spiritual parts they only exist in the physical planes of existence with no existence at all in any spiritual plane.
That’s why 40k has got Necrons,their Nano-wank is equal or Replicator nano-wank(Necrodermis).
“Energy is not the best weapon against them.”
Nah,Warp is the energy that breakes laws of physics(Ork technology) and it isn’t energy who obeys laws of physics.
So, what we’re looking for against the replicators is an instance of something warp-borne effecting a Pariah or Blank.
Seems reasonable enough. Lore-buffs, get to it so we can refute that particular point.
Most warp corruption takes the soul as the conduit into the body to corrupt it, replicators have no soul. So while physical manifestations could effect them, the whole mind mess up wouldnt.
However, the phase cloaking makes the stargate factions totaly immune to anything the 40k universe can throw at them. Even the most potent psycher couldnt detect them through the cloak because theyre not there. They’ve been moved to a different dimension.
With regards to necrons vs replicators. The tomb worlds are as good as dead (as ori can crush worlds into black holes), meaning no repair/refit facilities for the necron ships and the replicators out number necron space craft massivly, especially with use of the time dilation device. Necron ships are tough and fast, but in 40k can still be taken down by the other factions, theyre not invincible. Added to that, the difficulty most have in hitting them due to their inertia-less drives is counteracted to an extent by the replicators who have been shown to shoot down incoming energy bolts.
On the tyranid side, they also have no counter to either the phase shift or time dilation. Also, though very fast biologicaly, they are nowere near the speed of reinforcement that replicators are, even less when the replicators make use of the time dilation device. Their numbers in space with regards to spore and such are totaly negated by the drones available to the asurans which can be fired in their tens of thousands (as shown by the ancient outpost) and can dodge interceptors on their way to the target (as shown in atlantis when avoiding wraith dart screens).