Suggested by Aelfinn
Here we have another interesting fight that puts Richard Rahl of the Sword of Truth/Legend of the Seeker franchise up against Eragon.
For this particular match:
No death words.
No Boxes of Orden.
No Saphira (Eragon’s dragon)
Eragon gets “standard” power-holding jewels.
Who would win?
Loading ...
From what I have gathered Eragon has nigh unbreakable weaves that protect him against pretty much everything (be it magic or physical damage). Eragon also has some elvish traits such as super speed and strength. He can also sap magic away from Rahl…yeah…I’m seeing Eragon winning this one.
@Admin
This is off-topic but I am curious. Do the Boxes of Orden grant its user the powe to create gods like Mike says? Or is it utter BS?
I haven’t read the SoT books, but according to mike and ptaine: The boxes of Orden grant certain powers to their user, such as immortality and mastery over life and death. The boxes also allow you to bend reality and create new worlds.
mike interpreted this to mean that the Boxes had created a “God,” because the user had god-like powers.
It almost sounds like the person who suggested this wants Eragon to lose. Only “standard” jewels? This means Eragon does not get his Belt of Beloth the Wise, Aren, or the Jewel in Brisingr, am I correct? Just regular run-of-the-mill jewels?
@Blood Dancer – From my understanding, whoever controls the Boxes can create whatever they want. So, while Richard didn’t do that in the series, if he wanted to, he could.
“From my understanding, whoever controls the Boxes can create whatever they want. So, while Richard didn’t do that in the series, if he wanted to, he could”
So in the Alucard vs Rahl match I could argue that Alucard can make himself immune to the magic since he clearly defines how, when and where he exists, right, thus making any argument Mike makes moot, correct?
I say this because both have powers that are not fully explained…
@Blood Dancer – While Alucard could make himself immune to magic, can he make himself immune to existence?
@Admin
He did comeback from non-existance…
How the hell does one come back from non-existance anyways??
“How the hell does one come back from non-existance anyways??”
He ceased to exist and then came back. Do not ask me…manga/anime characters are usually like that.
Alucard represents a Japanese author coming across Quantum Mechanics with almost no *real* knowledge of it and saying “WOULD THAT BE A KEWL POWER!?!?!?!?!?”
Alucard’s greatest strength arises from the author’s ignorance, nothing more.
“From what I have gathered Eragon has nigh unbreakable weaves that protect him against pretty much everything (be it magic or physical damage). Eragon also has some elvish traits such as super speed and strength. He can also sap magic away from Rahl…yeah…I’m seeing Eragon winning this one.”
The wards you are taking about (weaves) are linked to his stamina. During the course of the battle of the burning plains (Eldest, book II), he is forced to take down his wards because keeping them up burns up energy, and though Eragon has great endurance as a dragon rider, it is far from infinite and he did tire out. Activating the ward cost energy, so Eragon blocking a blow from Richard is not a free transaction. If Richard is able to keep up the blows/magic, it is feasible that Eragon will have to either take down his wards or die due to the drain of magic the wards demand.
- pf
@ PF
True, which brings us back to my original question… is the match saying Eragon *does not* have the Belt of Beloth the Wise, Aren, or the jewel in Brisingr? That he gets some random, standard jewels?
I saw in another debate where Richard had some pretty extreme super strength and speed. This true?
Also, I think my debate suggestion was better: Caim+Angelus Vs Eragon+Saphira.
“@ PF
True, which brings us back to my original question… is the match saying Eragon *does not* have the Belt of Beloth the Wise, Aren, or the jewel in Brisingr? That he gets some random, standard jewels?”
Well the rules are:
“No death words.
No Boxes of Orden.
No Saphira (Eragon’s dragon)
Eragon gets “standard” power-holding jewels.”
Seeing as the only jewels Eragon has ever used either the Belt of Beloth the Wise, Aren, or the jewel in Brisingr, I believe that is his “standard: jewels”. Maybe Aelfinn is suggesting that Eragon cannot use the Glaedr’s Eldunari (heart of hearts) that he currently has in his possession since Glaedr died at the end of Brisingr. That is the only thing I can think of.
- pf
According to mike, Richard has the power to create gods and universes, also Richard can make sub. magic that are completely impenetrable to magic. So if what mike is saying is true, then Eragon has no chance.
He never provided evidence of any of that, Krazy.
but….but….it says “same”…..so it has to be true……
but seriously that is a question that i was hoping would be clarified…..if Richard could make the boxes of orden by himself……and therefore by extension, create “gods” and have that as an accurate representation of his power….
This is a tough match and I’m hard pressed to choose a winner caues I’m a fan of both, I see this going to richard cuz his magic abilities don’t require an energy drain, and eragon can’t infiltrate his mind or steal energy cuz of the rahl bond.
Hard to say for swordsmanship, richard is an incredible swordsman, but eragon has superhuman speed and strength besides being an excellent swordsman as well, so any ideas who wins there?
“He never provided evidence of any of that, Krazy.”
I know, I was mocking him.
Richard’s strategy for any following debate: Creates Orden and then creates Chuck Norris with Orden. Wins every debate thereafter; even the ones he’s not a part of.
He didn’t create orden, super powerful wizards from 3000yrs before his time created orden, he just unlocked it for his use
“He didn’t create orden, super powerful wizards from 3000yrs before his time created orden, he just unlocked it for his use”
We know, we are just making fun of a SoT fanboy.
I’d say richard has a pretty good chance as long as he avoids popping a vein by trying to create gods and universes…
Richard would definitly win in a sword duel- the anger of the SoT gives him superhuman strength (he once punched his fist into some guy’s guts) and fighting prowess (beat 50 fanatic blademasters at once), and his gift allows him to move in “arrow time” (one time someone shot an arrow at richard at close range, richard deflected the arrow with an arrow from his own bow). In addition the SoT itself would probably pierce eragon’s wards, taking away his greatest advantage.
When we get to magic things start to get tricky. Richard’s magic is far too powerful for eragon’s wards to stop it, and the strain would definitely kill eragon if he tried (not to mention subtractive lightning, which would probably cut right through the wards). The problem is richard suffers from an accute case of CIS. Namely, richard rarely uses his magic in battle and chooses to rely more on his sword and skill at arms, which he considers more reliable.
Richard’s magic is a great big I win button in this match. Question is, will he use it?
“Seeing as the only jewels Eragon has ever used either the Belt of Beloth the Wise, Aren, or the jewel in Brisingr, I believe that is his “standard: jewels”. Maybe Aelfinn is suggesting that Eragon cannot use the Glaedr’s Eldunari (heart of hearts) that he currently has in his possession since Glaedr died at the end of Brisingr. That is the only thing I can think of.”
“Standard” in context could also mean your run-of-the-mill jems. I need clarification.
Just like Drizzt, Eragon could simply outlast Rahl.
Also, Eragon can’t use Glaedr’s Eldunari because Glaedr would not help Eragon. He is still grieving and would refuse every attempt at communication.
well……if eragon took kahlan then it would be a no brainer.
I haven’t really been able to find an instance in the books where he actually used magic when he was the only one in danger.
unless you want to go with Mike’s idea that he figured out how to use his power with the rule unwritten and he would come out with his big guns first ie that blast in the pillars of creation.
what are eragons magical feats? it’s been awile since i’ve read the books and i really can’t remember what he did…
“Realizing that such a person wouldn’t know anything about his ability. Baraccus came back and wrote a book called Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power.” page 541 confessor
“It’s supposed to be the Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power.” “it is,” Zed said in a grave tone. Richard looked heartbroken, angry, and puzzled all at once.” -page 548 confessor
“Baraccus had left him a message in a three-thousand-year-old book, a rule unwritten, and Richard didn’t know what it meant.” page 556 confessor
“In that instant, as he grasped the Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power, Richard was able to fit the other pieces together and understand it all.” – page 561 confessor
-chronological order
“The secret to Richard’s power is that he seeks the truth.”
-the whole passage explains this more thoroughly and the way it happened in more detail. sot.wikia.com/wiki/Wizard%27s_Rules
A war wizard can use his power freely and with abandon if he understands the Wizard’s Eleventh and Final Rule. sot.wikia.com/wiki/War_Wizard
side note at blood dancer alucard never truly didn’t exist, it said he existed in imaginary #s, whatever that means, but he still existed. kinda how freddy kruger exists i guess.
“I saw in another debate where Richard had some pretty extreme super strength and speed. This true?”
-someone already mentioned it but richard did punch through someone’s gut and rip their spine back out through the front. and…..-”The Sword also instills and amplifies great anger and rage thereby giving the one wielding it added strength, agility and conviction.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth_universe
-this is from a post on another thread, because apparently someone was angry enough with me to go to the wiki page and take only this part off. it still pops up though if you look up on google – search this “sword of truth strength agility” i’ll look for quotes now though, get them on here soon.
“According to mike, Richard has the power to create gods and universes, also Richard can make sub. magic that are completely impenetrable to magic. So if what mike is saying is true, then Eragon has no chance.”
-this is only because of how the magic works, it undoes from reality, if you have the same properties of magic and can out power it it should work, but i don’t know how powerful eragon is. and even if people still disagree with me about the gods and universes thing, he still made the sot by himself which took hundreds of ancient warwizards to make, some dying in the process.
“In addition the SoT itself would probably pierce eragon’s wards, taking away his greatest advantage.”
-the sword is made with add. and sub.magic, that’s why it cuts through anything. the only thing it didn’t was another sub.shield that it did go through once richard turned the blade white, and another sword made with sub.magic and 100 bloody tips from the armory of the palace of prophets. both those examples were in the same fight too.
If we’re using post confessor richard, then eragon has no chance. Richards magic is just too strong for his wards to hold
@krazy
Ok got it
It is strongly implied, albeit not explicitly stated that by the end of Confessor, Richard has figured out how to use his magical abilities whenever he wants.
A strong part of why he generally didn’t use his magic is because thoughout most of Phantom and nearly all of Confessor, Richard has been cursed such that he can’t use it, and he wasn’t using it much before then because whenever he used magic, a creature from the underworld would pop up and try to kill him. Which, personally speaking, was a fairly good reason to avoid magic.
Prior to that particular curse, I don’t think he really had much time or opportunity to apply magic concurrent with possessing significant conscious control over his magic.
That said … in terms of pure skill and swordsmanship, I’d give the edge to Richard. In terms of physical abilities, while Richard is probably peak human in most respects, Eragon is just fucking wanked out.
In terms of weaponry … Brisingr and the Sword of Truth will probably compare favorably to one another, but I’d give a slight edge to the SoT.
In terms of magical defenses … Eragon’s magical wards were ignored by magical weapons, so the SoT will likely punch through them as well, whereas Richard’s magical defenses tend towards applying force against objects or slowing down time to give him sufficient reaction time.
In terms of using their magical abilities, Eragon has to talk and say a sentence to achieve his ends, at least, to do so safely, whereas Richard, assuming he has access to his magic can do so instinctively or at the speed of though.
If Richard utilizes his Subtractive Gift, Eragon’s wards will likely simply be ignored, but if Eragon tries to directly attack Richard with magic, Richard usually doesn’t have wards up.
Richard would, however, almost certainly be immune to Eragon attempting to enter his mind.
In terms of which character is smarter/dumber? Richard, while he occasionally does stupid things, generally only does so with reason to do so or when he lacks a better option. Eragon, however, could make a career out of doing stupid things when he has no reason to do so and has better options available. Edge goes to Richard … by a significant margin.
Look, guys, let’s be honest here – Eragon having or not having access to power storing jewels is more or less irrelevant, because CIS dictates 90%+ odds that he won’t use them in a fight, even if he needed them.
Richard, while occasionally guilty of some CIS, is far less hampered by his CIS than Eragon is.
If Richard has conscious use of his magic, he wins. If he doesn’t, however, Eragon’s wanked physical attributes will probably give him the win, despite Richard’s superior skill.
@Kytheros
-richard has enhanced physical skills also. he has enhanced strength, “arrow time” relfexes and the agility to make use of it, and enhanced speed to boot. some by the magic of his sword, some by his gift, some by both. if it came down to a sword fight(which it probably wouldn’t) richard still seems to have the advantage. how strong and fast is eragon? any examples? richard can punch straight through someone ripping their spine out through their gut(strength), and has had arrows fired at him then knocking his own and shooting it out of the airs(speed&agility).
I just love it when eragon gets his ass handed to him.
Anyone care to bring up any argument to the contrary?
I’m waiting for the match I posted. I know it’s been mentioned before but the idea of it still excites me.
@cide
-what match did you suggest?
Also, Mike. I take it everything you mentioned in terms of physical feats for Rahl happened in the books? Nothing is assumed; he has literally done every one of those things mentioned?
yeah, first post everything is quoted with pages and books they are in, and the sub.magic shield and sword that could take a hit from his was with a sister of the dark in one of the books can’t remember but she wanted his han for himself, and jedidia made the sword for her. in one of the books where he is at the palace of prophets.
the punching through the gut was against drefan rahl his half brother in the book temple of the winds, he also did that while moments from death from the plague he brought back from the temple as part of the spirit of darken rahl’s terms for leaving along with losing the knowledge of that place. and the arrow thing i got from(i think) ahem on another thread, but do remember it happening, just don’t know where. the speed can also be pointed out with the crossbow bolt catching incident, he thickened the air but acted in “arrow” time saying that the second was an hour to him, and time was his and all. the agility to do all of that is apparent, along with(it would take me a while to find this but..) while in battle with the imperial order in their camp by himself without the sword he was going through the 150 soilders he killed not being noticed because of how fast he was moving through them and weaving through them(agility).
Punching through someone and not only being able to remove your limb (body offers a LOT of resistance) but rip the spine out is a huge strength feat. Only reason I asked. “Arrow timers” are kind of a dime a dozen on this site.
I suggested Caim+Angelus (Drakengard) Vs Eragon+Saphira.
i’ll look for the 150 men killing thing and more speed feats but google books tends to leave the action pages as “no preview” and searching the books is a hassle.
oooo, won’t be involved with that match, don’t know any of them and have only seen the crappy eragon movie.
here’s the quote about the spinal ripping.
“Drefan bellowed in rage as the sword started down.
Richard dropped to his left knee, though the opening, using his forward momentum and a twist of his torso to add force to his strike. Fingers straight and stiff, he drove his arm ahead with all his might.
Before the sword could touch him, Richard struck like lightning, driving his hand through drefan’s soft middle. In the blink of an eye, he had seized Drefan’s spinal column and yanked it back out, ripping it apart.” page 777-778 temple of the winds soft cover.
-apparently strong enough to do it with fingers, wow, didn’t remember that.
Yep I remember that, there were numerous times he killed large amounts of enemies, such as Pillars of Creation where he killed 1000 of the order’s elite cavalry in one magic shot. In the one with the bandakar (can’t remember the title) he was killing large groups of men while he was dying from poison. In Phantom after being captured by six, he escaped and fought his way through a few hundred order soldiers, only to be stopped by a group of archers. In the second book, he defeated 30 baka ban mana (might hav the name wrong) blademasters, each reportedly being able to kill around 50 heavily armed soldiers
Never got exact numbers in any battles but there was also blood of the fold where he killed large a large amount of soldiers and mriswith alike
Rahl is a beast when it comes to swordfights.
So here’s another thing that Rahl and Al’Thor have in common.
One way or another, both of them can pwn Eragon, no matter how powerful Eragon is.
Eragons tough, but I’ll bet even with saphira he couldn’t win, unless they dive bombed him from above
Considering that Al’Thor and Rahl got to take on Eragon, when do we get to see Harry Potter, Perseus Jackson, Luke Skywalker, or Galen Marek have their shots at Eragon?
Wow, look at all the eragon haters out here. Richard Rahl is one of my favorite book characters, topped only by Anomander Rake…. and yet I do believe he might lose in this match, and here is why.
First and foremost, there are no boxes or orden in this match. Period. Rahl only has his magic and unless we’re talking about Temple of the winds Rahl, then he has no real control of his powers. I don’t get where people are “assuming” that Rahl could control his powers at the end of confessor… he couldn’t. You all could assume all you want, but there was no proof given of this. Rahl’s power came out from need. That’s what being a war wizard meant.
With that being said, although Rahl can fry a whole squad of enemies with his additive/subtractive blasts, he’s not really creative about his magic… unlike say someone like Nicci who could do all sorts of crazy stuff with her magic. So Rahl just basically has a lot of firepower, but not much else.
Eragon on the otherhand although he doesn’t have as much raw power as Rahl, does have a lot more control over his power. He knows how to create shields, how to create different offensive attacks, how to even modify his own body.
So in a battle of power, as long as Eragon plays it smart, he has more chances of winning than Rahl.
And then we get to sword fight. Eragon’s elven teacher (forgot his name) said that Eragon was as good a swordsman as could be, and he had nothing more to improve on his swordsmanship…. meaning his skill is probably already a perfect swordsmaster. Of course, Rahl is above just being perfect. In terms of sword fighting skills, I doubt anyone can beat Rahl. But that’s just skill.
No matter how fast or how strong Rahl may seem, he is still just human. Eragon is way above that, and coupling Eragon’s speed and strength advantage with his great swordsmanship, then he beats Rahl in a physical fight despite Rahl’s overwhelming sword skill.
So you see, Eragon might just win. Rahl can still pull off a win of course, but a wise man would see Eragon having most of the advantages.
What were some comparable physical feats going either way? Mike already posted several for Rahl. No one really said anything for Eragon other than “part elf super human”. What’s his speed top out at or his strength? What’s his shown level of sword skill?
I’m not trying to debate on you on this; just asking some questions.
“I don’t get where people are “assuming” that Rahl could control his powers at the end of confessor… he couldn’t. You all could assume all you want, but there was no proof given of this. Rahl’s power came out from need. That’s what being a war wizard meant.”
-did you read the earlier posts frothbyte?
“Realizing that such a person wouldn’t know anything about his ability. Baraccus came back and wrote a book called Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power.” page 541 confessor
“It’s supposed to be the Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power.” “it is,” Zed said in a grave tone. Richard looked heartbroken, angry, and puzzled all at once.” -page 548 confessor
“Baraccus had left him a message in a three-thousand-year-old book, a rule unwritten, and Richard didn’t know what it meant.” page 556 confessor
“In that instant, as he grasped the Secrets of a War Wizard’s Power, Richard was able to fit the other pieces together and understand it all.” – page 561 confessor
-chronological order
“The secret to Richard’s power is that he seeks the truth.”
-the whole passage explains this more thoroughly and the way it happened in more detail. sot.wikia.com/wiki/Wizard%27s_Rules
A war wizard can use his power freely and with abandon if he understands the Wizard’s Eleventh and Final Rule. sot.wikia.com/wiki/War_Wizard
and he has shown to do it consciously before that, this just shows complete conscious control, not him trying to concentrate to do anything. he consciously brought joeseph ander out of his private dimension without need or anger in the book soul of the fire, he used his power and a brand new way of interpreting and changing the grace. that’s just one example of him using it consciously prior to learning the whole secret to using it at the end of the last book. and soul of the fire is book 5 in the series of 11, so he showed the ability to consciously control his magic a long time ago(time in the books that is) 3-4 years or so i think.
“With that being said, although Rahl can fry a whole squad of enemies with his additive/subtractive blasts, he’s not really creative about his magic… unlike say someone like Nicci who could do all sorts of crazy stuff with her magic. So Rahl just basically has a lot of firepower, but not much else.”
-firepower is the majority of what you would want in a fight. and i’ll give an example of what he is capable of speed and perception of time wise at the end of this post.
“No matter how fast or how strong Rahl may seem, he is still just human. Eragon is way above that, and coupling Eragon’s speed and strength advantage with his great swordsmanship, then he beats Rahl in a physical fight despite Rahl’s overwhelming sword skill.”
-you fail to realize that richard has his gift and sword enhancing his physical aspects, he’s not “just human”. and there are feats of this already mentioned in this thread. what has eragon done that we can compare to?
alright you’ll have to mind the mentions of other characters in this quote i did in another thread byakuya vs richard.
“well here, lets figure something out. if when in that “state of magical mind” or whatever you want to call it, he perceives a fraction of a second as if it were an hour and without exahustion taken into effect(not actually running for an hour, just comparing the reaction time) and richard being a woods guide and in excellent physical shape, probably sprints somewhere between 15-20 mph.(running a mile in 5:30 is 10.9mph with all variables in there; www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist3.htm and fastest person ever was about 27mph wiki.answers.com/Q/In_MPH_what_is_the_fastest_a_human_has_ever_run ). and a medival crossbow fires at 200-300 mph depending on what stage in time it was, so i’ll average that out to 250, and the bolt was 3inches from Nadine’s face. 5280′ in a mile, 12” in a foot, 63,360 inches in a mile then. 250mph is 15,840,000 inches an hour/ 264,000 inches a minute/ 4,400 inches a second. 3inches is 0.0006818… seconds. his perception time is .0006818…=hour. 3600 seconds in an hour divided by .0006818 is 5,280,140 mph byakuya would have to move to appear sprinting speed to richard in that “magical state of mind”. this might be on the slow end also since “The blad wasn’t three inches from nadine’s wide eyes” it wasn’t quite three inches, but there are variables(speed of crossbow, less than three inches) so it’s probably a good average.”
with thinking that fast and being able to cast at a thought some spells including shields and cuncusive explosions(at the aydindril castle when he thought they executed kahlan). i think he needs to point to shoot lightning though, never showed anyone not pointing and shooting it in the sot series. there’s also that han heart grab thingy that people do, apparently you just use your han(without moving) to squeeze a person’s heart killing them instantly, or use sub.magic instead and just undo it from reality. richard hasn’t done the heart thing, but the concept of them is the simplest form of using magic in the sot world, just plain using any magic can do this, especially with sub.magic, if you can use it you can flow it somewhere. and richard can use his magic with “complete” conscious control now.
oh, and figuring that out was based off of this.
“Richard paused. His head came up. Nadine was behind him. He had the oddest sensation.
The hair on the back of his neck stiffened.
The world slowed. Sound dragged. He floated as he moved. The air felt as thick as mud. Everyone seemed a statue in
his vision.
Time was his.
His arm stretched out as he drifted ahead. He commanded the thichness of the air. In the eerie silence, he could hear
the feathers singing. He could hear the hiss of blade.
Time was his.
Nading’s startled blink took forever.
He closed his fist.
With a slam of sound, the world crashed back with a wild rush.
In his fist, richard held a bolt from a crossbow.
The blad wasn’t three inches from nadine’s wide eyes.
A fraction of a second more and it would have killed her.
That fraction of a second had been anhour to him.” page 595 temple of the winds
Alright, no one is really helping Eragon here. So here I go.
Swordsmanship
If Rahl is just Human, then he loses in sword fighting. No matter how good he is. It is stated multiple times in the Eragon books that an Elf on their deathbed could defeat the greatest human sword fighter. Eragon has all the speed and strength of an Elf, with the will and fight of a Human. With that being said, Eragon is a master swordsman himself. Oromis, his master, told Eragon there is nothing more he teach Eragon. And Oromis has been studying swordplay for hundreds of years.
Magic feats-
Eragon lifted 12 Urgals (very large, horned men (think the Urgals in the movie only with a little fur and horns – and bigger)) and threw them very far (he blacked out before they crashed into the ground, but it was still pretty far).
Eragon levitated himself and another Human down a mile-high mountain side (he actually dropped then slowed himself, then dropped then slowed himself, and on and on).
Eragon is a natural with fire. He can manipulate fire much easier than other people. He can even envelope his sword with fire, fire flaming arrows, throw fireballs, etc.
Although, Eragon’s simplest move is his greatest. Picking up a pebble and launching it at someones head faster than they can react to it.
Can Rahl stop Eragon from entering his mind and forcing him to obey all of Eragon’s commands? Eragon has become pretty adept at forcing his way into other’s minds. From this, Eragon can ascertain what move Rahl is about to make.
Eragon’s gems-
Eragon has many gems he can store energy in to use at a later time. So if Rahl does somehow tire Eragon out (don’t see how its gonna happen), Eragon can completely revitalize himself. Aren alone has enough energy in it to tear down a castle with bare hands. Rahl is not going to outlast that. Eragon also has the Belt of Beloth the Wise and the jewel in Brisingr.
@CIDE I’m not sure about comparable feats cos i know almost nothing about Rahl, but the gut punch thing would be very easy for Eragon, especially with his magically altered knuckles. His marathon speed is very high, at least 5 times that of a human, if the times and distances in the third book can be compared to the first.
The best example i can think of for burst speed is when he jumps in a tunnel, flips, pushes off the roof, lands and then kill 2 ninja dwarves before they can even turn around. I can barely imagine how fast you would have to be to do that. It’s hard to say for strength seeing as Eragon rarely hits or lifts anything.
Sword skill- apart from Galbatorix who has unknown skill, Eragon is in shared first place swordsman in the world ( of Alagaesia ).not sure if Murtagh is better because he has more magic strength and they were equals in the first book.
Also, whats to stop Eragon shooting a pebble at Rahl while he’s distracted in the sword fight?
@eric
“Swordsmanship
If Rahl is just Human, then he loses in sword fighting. No matter how good he is. It is stated multiple times in the Eragon books that an Elf on their deathbed could defeat the greatest human sword fighter. Eragon has all the speed and strength of an Elf, with the will and fight of a Human. With that being said, Eragon is a master swordsman himself. Oromis, his master, told Eragon there is nothing more he teach Eragon. And Oromis has been studying swordplay for hundreds of years.”
-already stated that he is not just human, and he’s shown feats of strength, speed, and agility that have been talked about on this thread earlier i think, if not i’ll post opon asking. for the “defeating greatest human warrior”, richard has the combined skill of anyone who wielded the sword of truth for over 3000 years, and the seeker(wielder of the sword) was appointed by the leader of the wizards(first wizard) from the wizard’s keep that had thousands of wizards to start and only …7 just prior to the first book….5 gave lives to get kahlan across boundry…..zedd, and giller, yeah, 7. don’t know about how fast and strong exactly but apparently he is strong enough(all over strength, not just lifting) to point his fingers forward and thrust through a human body without injuring himself at all, and in so doing ripped the spine out and to pieces. i suppose if i get bored i could figure out hom much pressure it takes to break the weakest finger and then figure out how much square inches is hitting the abdomen, and how much pressure it takes to rip flesh with that much area. that’ll take a while so i don’t know if i’ll do it.
-the magic part isn’t very close at all, richard has had two separate occasions of killing 1000+ and at least 3000+ people with one spell, the latter was lightning through a castle durring a battle with not seeing directly any of them, and knowing intent of the enemy and not killing the ones that were surrendering, or any of his own troops. the air shields(only one kind and no sub.magic in it with this example) are extremely hard and would block pebbles flung like that easily. it doesn’t give a good direct quote of what they can block in the books, but when made thinner, in fact “razor thin” and used as an offensive weapon, they are still strong enough to go through dozens of fully armored soilders.
-rahls “bond” is specifically made to block out any psychic interference, along with his sword blocking world altering memory loss(chainfire), and emotional manipulation(bewitching from shota the witch woman.
- with the gems and other items you mention…i doubt this fight would last longer than a thought at the speeds mentioned earlier, but if you want stamina examples of richard i think i can find a few. and i’m not sure what those items are, can you explain what they are and what they do.
@ridwan
magically altered knuckles isn’t related to the strength point of what that example was meant to convey, doesn’t show strength of anything but his knuckles(if that’s what it means). marathon speed would only come into effect if this fight went long enough to tire richard out. your burst speed example doesn’t show much speed, alot of agility though. and i explained the pebble defense earlier with one of his shields.
“- with the gems and other items you mention…i doubt this fight would last longer than a thought at the speeds mentioned earlier, but if you want stamina examples of richard i think i can find a few. and i’m not sure what those items are, can you explain what they are and what they do.”
Gems in Alagaeisa can store energy for use later. When Eragon is about to go to bed, he can transfer some of his energy in his body into gems to use at a later time. Currently, Eragon has 3 such gems. Aren is a ring given to him by Brom. Brom stored enough energy in his lifetime to rip apart an entire castle with bare hands. Eragon also has the Belt of Beloth the Wise. There are 6 or 12 (don’t remember for sure) gems on the belt. And he has a jewel in the pommel of his sword, Brisingr. Neither of these have a good amount of energy, but no where near the amount in Aren.
Eragon’s stamina-
Eragon levitated both himself and Sloan (both fully grown men) down a greater-than-5000 ft. mountain, which almost killed him. After doing that, Eragon ran 414 miles in two and a half days (based on measurements on the map and the known distance of 138 miles between Utgard and Yazuac). Let me also point out that he did this without the use of the energy in his gems.
Mike, you still haven’t proven that he would win in a swordfight. Eragon is still the superior swordsman.
“-the magic part isn’t very close at all, richard has had two separate occasions of killing 1000+ and at least 3000+ people with one spell”
Eragon can kill that many people too. During the Battle of the Burning Plains, Eragon killed hundreds at a time. It is very difficult to attempt a maximum amount of people, but I will explain my myself –
The Battle of the Burning Plains started just after sun-up, and ended in the mid afternoon. Eragon fought at the front lines, was circulated back to kill hundreds of people at a time, circulated back to the front lines, then back again – and on and on and on. Eragon is not limited to only a hundred or two at a time though. All of Galbatorix’s men had wards preventing mages from ending the soldiers lives instantly. So Eragon had to find the mages holding these wards up, penetrate their minds, then kill them and the soldiers they were protecting. So Eragon did this non-stop all day long. So it is very probable that Eragon can kill thousands at a time.
Eragon can also siphon energy from his surroundings, including Rahl himself.
Which brings me back to a point you never covered in your breakdown of mine, can Rahl protect his mind? Eragon can simply waltz right in and direct Rahl to stab himself – and Rahl would have to obey.
“Neither of these have a good amount of energy, but no where near the amount in Aren.”
Should be, “Both of these have a good amount of energy, but no where near the amount in Aren.”
“can Rahl protect his mind?”
There’s the Rahl bond, which renders Richard impervious to magical and psychic mental manipulation. I highly doubt Eragon could get in his normal way.
“There’s the Rahl bond, which renders Richard impervious to magical and psychic mental manipulation.”
No limits fallacy.
“I highly doubt Eragon could get in his normal way.”
Not too sure about that. Eragon doesn’t use magic or physic ability to enter minds. It is described as extending his consciousness outwards. Furthermore, Eragon can control multiple minds at once.
Just because something can’t do it in one universe does not necessarily mean someone from another universe can’t just waltz right in.
“at least 3000+ people with one spell, the latter was lightning through a castle during a battle with not seeing directly any of them, and knowing intent of the enemy and not killing the ones that were surrendering, or any of his own troops”
–I want to point out this isn’t really a good example of anything Richard could do in a fight. Where did this particular feat happen?? In the People’s Palace in D’Hara. The People’s Palace is what again?? A spell form that enhances the powers of a Rahl who is the leader of D’Hara.
And Richard Rahl was the leader of D’Hara at this point…..he may not have officially taken control, but as far as the magic is concerned he’s the boss. So what else did being the boss give him at this point?? The bond……The magic that protects his people from dreamwalkers among other things.
So the spellform was responsible for amplifying his power, and arcing his one lightning attack through the palace which killed all those people. The bond was responsible for only targeting those who were threats.
I’m siding with Richard so far in this fight I just wanted to clarify this particular feat…
So if what ptaine said was true, then Rahl does not get these powers. At FactPile, we use the most current incarnation of a character. Just because Rahl may have once had these powers does not mean he can use them.
Its the achilles heel with Link here. He had some pretty awesome powers in Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask. However, his most current incarnation is Spirit Tracks – where he is weak as shit. But it is his current incarnation so that is what we have to use.
“No limits fallacy.”
I’ve always thought so, but it’s been used so often around the site I’ve just started shrugging at it.
“Not too sure about that. Eragon doesn’t use magic or physic ability to enter minds. It is described as extending his consciousness outwards”
That sounds pretty psychic to me.
“Furthermore, Eragon can control multiple minds at once.”
The bond was originally made to counter Dreamwalkers, who could potentially inhabit the minds of every single person on the planet.
“Just because something can’t do it in one universe does not necessarily mean someone from another universe can’t just waltz right in.”
I agree with this (in fact, I’ve argued in favour of it rather recently), but here the similarities are too close. Dreamwalkers invade someone’s mind in much the same way Eragon does, and the bond was specifically made to repel them. It’s pretty close, but someone more familiar with the rules should clarify.
Besides, I just pointed out that Rahl does in fact have mental guards, in response to your question. I haven’t read Brisingr (although I have read Eragon and Eldest), so I’m not up-to-date with Eragon, so I can’t make any calls about his abilities. I have, however, read the whole SoT series (and recently been in a drawn-out debate about it), so I can make calls about Rahl without looking like an idiot (hopefully).
with the entering of the mind or whatever eragon does, has also already been mentioned by rahl-expert, and me earlier in this debate and now again by zazax,
“Mike, you still haven’t proven that he would win in a swordfight. Eragon is still the superior swordsman.”
-i’ve showed some of the stuff about his sword skill and speed and strength, and the fact that the sot goes through(almost) any matter and magic, but i’m not going to get into too much detail about a sword fight until someone shows eragon can live though the first thought of the match.
-if he hasn’t shown he can do it then there is no proof he can do it(the magic part). shields would prevent any siphoning of energy from richard, they can be a wall or a complete body shield, and with sub.magic anything trying to interfere with it(because it surrounds you) would be undone from reality.
well for the measurement of how strong richard’s finger thrust was, i measured my fingertips squished flat to the nail(how it would happen when hitting something), and got 3square inches(4fingers .75inch squared each).
wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_force_is_needed_to_puncture_average_human_skin
and
www.kgbanswers.com/how-much-pressure-in-psi-is-neededto-piercehuman-skin/7409884
say or give the equation to figure out the theoretical(average) pressure is 461.7 psi
that means 1,846.8 psi he exerted with his fingertips at the least, without breaking any bones or dislocating any joint, the quote and after don’t even talk of any injury at all, not even pain from anything. for some reason this doesn’t feel right, but i think i got everything figured out about it except how strong regular fingers are. if someone notices a flaw in this feel free to point it out, it’s bugging me for some reason.
ptaine is right about it being in the people’s palace but nothing shows it was related to the bond, only speculation, besides he wasn’t in the people’s palace when he killed 1000+ men and 1000+ horses at once in the book the pillars of creation, he was in a desert type area in the old world.
“So if what ptaine said was true, then Rahl does not get these powers. At FactPile, we use the most current incarnation of a character. Just because Rahl may have once had these powers does not mean he can use them.”
-this is just because of a place, not because of a point in time, and the pillars of creation happened 5 books after that scenario which happened in the stone of tears.
-the bond isn’t a no limit fallacy, it was created to counter a strong magical psychic power. haven’t seen anything stronger psychiclly than a dream walker, and eragon isn’t anywhere near it, not to mention his sword also protects against two other ways of mental stuff. the bond is strong enough to protect against a psychic power that can reach anyone anywhere and make them do anything go unnoticed if wanted, and move from person to person “in the spaces between thought” even think and dead moves weren’t fast enough to kill him when in another mind, and dreamwalkers also can just pay attention to anyone without the bond protecting them and know what they are thinking and see and hear. the bond also has the ability to have an unlimited amount of people under it’s protection, and that’s not no limit fallacy either since it has specifications to how it’s done, you have to be loyal to richard in heart and mind. specifications = not a no limit fallacy.
Ah yes Mike I was only speculating because Richard did know exactly what he was doing correct?…..he didn’t seem surprised at all?
p. 953 Stone of Tears
“Wizard Zorander told me that the palace is a huge power spell drawn on the ground of the plateau, drawn to protect and give power to the Lord Rahl. I never would have believed it until I saw it myself. The whole palace was alive with lightning. It flickered through every wall in the palace.
Every one of those bastard generals who was loyal to Darken Rahl was cut down by the lightning. Their troops who fought on were ripped apart by it, too. Those who laid down their weapons and joined us were unharmed.”
Richard didn’t know what to say. “I’m glad, general, but I can’t take credit. I was in there the whole time. I’m not even sure what I did in there, much less what happened out here.”
So yeah…..He clearly knew the intent of the army that was attacking, and those that were surrendering so he could pick and choose who he killed huh?
Seriously Mike I’m getting tired of you telling me that I’m speculating things when you are clearly taking them out of context. He didn’t know what happened, much less how it happened, the only logical conclusion is those people were protected by the bond.
sorry Mike, but wiki answers and KGB do not count as credible sources… even though it is a pointless claim.
@ptaine, it was just an example of what he did before, and another example of his gift doing something subconsciously. it worked through need and anger remember. he still did it, and it never stated how exactly it targeted, but it did, may have been the bond may not. it is a bad example for this fight though as you said since it was in the peoples palace. the other 1000+men and 1000+ horses still works though to the same point.
@eric
“Where the skin and eyes are protected and there is no potential for deadheading the source against the skin, the pressure required for pneumatic jet injuries to healthy unbroken skin is over 600 psi. Pneumatic sources directed at eyes or ears can cause injuries at significantly lower pressures depending on the proximity and diameter of the jet.
Hydraulic energy is liquid under pressure.. The pressure of a hydraulic jet required to break intact healthy skin is over 600 psi. ” www.pnl.gov/contracts/esh-procedures/forms/sp00e350.doc
-this actually saves as a document, i couldn’t go to the page. but you get it if you look up on google “psi to break skin” and it’s the fifth one down. that should be more reliable since it’s a .gov; it also ups the psi that richard did to over 2400psi with the tips of his fingers.
Richard gets the Bond. Why the fuck wouldn’t he? Ever since the end of Wizard’s First Rule (book 1) Richard has been Lord Rahl. Except for a few bits where he was dead(ish) or magically separated from his Gift, all of which was fixed before the end of Confessor, and then one of his ancestors stood in for him (Nathan Rahl), and Richard still had the benefit of the Rahl Bond during the time that he wasn’t Lord Rahl. True, I don’t know if he had the Rahl Bond before the end of WFR, but, that was quite some time ago.
Look, it comes down to whether Richard can freely use his Gift to kill Eragon with or if he has to kill him in a sword duel – something he has done on multiple occasions when it wasn’t inhibited or linked to a curse. IF he can use his Gift, Eragon is fucked. If not, however, I’m afraid Eragon’s elf-wank abilities will eventually give him the victory. Though – Richard’s pain threshold might allow him to land a killing blow on Eragon as well – unlikely, true, but theoretically possible.
Query – does Richard have an Agiel for this match? He did carry one a whole lot of the time. It would permit him to dual-wield – something that we have never seen in Alagaesia, and Eragon has never encountered before.
TLDR: With his Gift, Richard wins. Without, Eragon’s elf-traits almost certainly give Eragon the win, but he’s inexperienced enough and Richard has a sufficiently high pain threshold that Richard may be able to take Eragon out with him, albeit I doubt even Eragon would be dumb enough to make that a likely event (but not impossible).
well richard does have control of his gift now, i put three sources of evidence one of which being a four quote chronological ordered happening of it, the other two wiki’s and explaining the process on the wizard’s rules one. not even going to discuss the sword part unless someone can make a good argument for eragon against richard’s magic, and i’ve posted proof of his premonitious senses and acute perception of time he can attain and (i think) how he can cast with thought fast speeds, along with point and thought. if i didn’t post the spell castings, i can if asked, i’ve been posting on a few richard fights.
“not even going to discuss the sword part unless someone can make a good argument for eragon against richard’s magic”
Brisingr, Eragon’s sword, was forged by the greatest sword maker in all Alagaesia. She is also one of the oldest people on the planet. She forged it using Brightsteel, a metal with amazingly strong properties, and bright colors. She also forged it using magic, imbuing spells into every molecule of the sword. The sword cannot be damaged by physical strikes OR magic, and the blade will never dull. Furthermore, it passes right through weak wards, and pounds down wards much faster than a regular sword. Eragon also discovered its true name, which he can use to harness its full power – engulfing it in flames and basically turning it into a not-as-strong lightsaber.
@eric
does that mean eragon doesn’t have a way to live through richard’s magic then?
fine i’ll put a little info about richard’s sword
The sword of truth – forged by hundreds of ancient warwizards some of which died in the process, it was imbued with some of the power of orden.
-made with both additive and subtractive magic, it goes through any physical matter from steel to people like they weren’t there, but needs to be wielded with complete conviction or it will stop inches before the target(perception based), meaning you cannot hurt your friends; unless you turn the sword white, which only the true seeker can do, and then you can kill anything if you love them or forgive them. It’s blade never dulls also. it imbues and feeds off of rage, and that rage enhances the strength, and agility. the sword blocks magic in many different ways. it will stop an offensive spell cast at you if you hold it the right way in front of you, it will stop emotional manipulation by feeding your anger and overpowering the intrusion, it also has stopped world altering memory loss to the wielder(orden, i’ll get to that later). once mastered, you learn the “dance with death” which is the knowledge, skill, exp, etc… of every wielder of the sword over it’s life time which is over 3000yrs. once you do master the sword you don’t need to have it to call on any of it’s magic. it has passed through all shields ever encountered except one, which then by turning white went right through. the only thing that didn’t shatter when struck with the sword was another sword made from 100 bloody tips from the palace of prophets armory, and was forged with add. and sub.magic. it was only shown to be able to be damaged once, and that’s when richard was in the temple of the winds where thousands of years of tens of thousands of wizards knowledge was magically stored and available for him to use as he wanted, he actually made a duplicate sword, exactly the same in all ways except no knowledge from past wielders(a feat that took hundreds of ancient war wizards to do). he made it then destroyed it for his own amusement, knowing how to make it and having that amount of power is probably what let him destroy it(if you make it you can take it apart). to put into perspective the multiple elements of orden that are in the sword, you’ll have to know what orden is.
-first of all you can completely stop time before all of this
-”If rahl opens the correct one, he gains the magic of orden, the magic of life itself, power over all things living and dead. He will have unchallenged power and authority. He will be a master with immutable dominion over all people. Anyone he doesn’t like, he will be able to kill with a thought, in any manner of his choosing, wherever that person is, no matter how far away.” page 112 wizard’s first rule
-you have complete conscious awareness of everyone alive, and can communicate with them the same, one at a time or all at once.
-you can make(arguably) universes, (not arguably) worlds, that are cut off from any afterlife.
-you can stop any spell in the world you want
-you can bring mountains and temples from the underworld to the world of the living(temple of the winds)
-you can take down the veil that keeps the world of the living and the world of the dead separate, effectively releasing all spirits and the keeper(satan).
-you can live forever
-if the wrong box is opened, one of them destroys all of existance.(3 boxes of orden)
-to put it into perspective, it is the same hundreds of wizards with the same magic that made both orden and the sword.
i might be missing a few things that have been done or said can be done with it, but it gets my point across of that some of the raw power of orden was used in the sword, and the sword is actually the “key” to using orden.
if you really want this to get down to a sword fight, then start listing eragon’s accomplishments with his sword fighting, his speed, his strength, etc….
Rahl being stated that he finally understood a war wizard’s power… doesn’t mean that he suddenly has mastered it. He understood the concept, which is that a war wizard’s power comes out from need. That’s why he was able to alter the lines of the grace because at that point and time, it was needed.
Which means, that he’s basically instinctive in his powers… I have never seen him plan something and then do it with his magic. His magic happens on the spot. And unless you can prove REAL events of him doing this, and not just implications at the end of the book, then it is illogical to conclude that he is as powerful as he was in temple of the winds.
He understood his power, doesn’t mean he mastered it.
As for strength and speed, where does it state that Rahl was given enhanced strength and speed by the sword? Nowhere does it state that. It gave him the skill, incredible skill…
Simply stating that Rahl is fast enough to snatch arrows out of the air or strong enough to break chains is still within human boundaries. Hell, conan breaks chains all the time.
What I meant by “standard” are that he gets his Belt of Beloth and whatever he regularly carries with him.
Would holding the entire Sky by himself be within human boundaries?
If not, Rahl did not do that, then, which meant that Eragon’s strength is still greater.
Does Rahl have the overall magic advantage?
Rahl Slaughters this dragon-flying chump, I haven’t yet finished watching LoS, but SoT Richard doesn’t require any boxes of orden to accomplish much, I mean other then saving the world from itself and all.
Eragon has nothing but standard jewels and no dragon to help him out, it wouldn’t be much of a contest.
@frothbyte
-it means that he can use it at will, and he already knows how to do everything he has done before at the least.
-the grace he altered he did consciously and had planned on how to do it before even going to the lake, if you read the passages again he figured out a new spell on his own by incorporating art into magic. his subconsious magic working was just the instances when “magic” happened instantly. not the well thought out spell he did that time.
“”From the gold-worked leather pouch on hes belt he pulled white sorcerer’s sand. With the sand, Richard carefully begandrawing a Grace. Starting with the rays representing the gift, he drew it exactly opposite from the way zedd told him it must be drawn. He stood in the center, laying the lines of the gift inward, toward himself….A grace might rise in obedience to an inventive spell. Richard intended to raise more than that. From his place inside the grace, Richard lifted his fists to the sky. “Reechani! Sentrosi! Vasi! I call you forth!” page 768 soul of the fire
-that is clearly using it of his own consciousness.
-he “understood” his power, just didnt’ know how to touch it whenever he wanted, sometimes he would go for it and it was”like falling on his face”. the end of the last book gave him the understanding to use it whenever he wanted. the scenario just quoted had him making a spell never made before, so there’s a level of understanding that shows he knows some of what he can do.
“As for strength and speed, where does it state that Rahl was given enhanced strength and speed by the sword? Nowhere does it state that. It gave him the skill, incredible skill… ”
-other than the wiki’s getting it from what he has done in the books….well there has already been one quote on here that he was using the magic of he sword to move faster and stronger from the magic of the sword, the whole drefan spinal ripping. it doesn’t need to “say” it increases his speed and strength, if when he states he’s using the power of the sword and he does things of supernatural speed and strength.
“Simply stating that Rahl is fast enough to snatch arrows out of the air or strong enough to break chains is still within human boundaries. Hell, conan breaks chains all the time.”
-snatch bolts out of the air, and perceive time as .0006818 seconds=1 hour. and by the way he didn’t move until the bolt was already shot and wasn’t facing it and had to move to grab it. and he didn’t break any chains that i know of, don’t know where you got that from, he applied 2400psi with the tips of his 4 fingers, and that is superhuman strength.
@commander cross
-held the sky up? can you elaborate or show a quote. because the sky does that by itself everyday.
@commander cross
Wtf are you talking about? When did eragon ever hold up the sky? And shouldn’t this debate hav ended a long time ago? Eragon would win in swordfighting through sheer speed and strength, while rahl wins in magic by having the ability to create a massive explosion large enough to kill 1000 cavalry soldier at the speed of thought. Here’s how I see the fight going:
The fighters face off on the field. Eragon does a war cry and charges, running impossibly fast. Seeing this, rahl realizes this guy is magically far faster than him and blasts him with powerful magic before eragon can get close to him. Eragon’s wards stop the magic momentarily, then the energy drain kills him and his body is disintegrated by the blast
rahl is also very fast and strong due to his sword and gift, but that wouldn’t even need to be used at all, because with the “magical state of mind” i’ve quoted him able to do it would be like shooting at a statue as many times as you want(with his magic)
I kno that he’s fast, but elves in the inheritance cycle (eragon has their speed and strength) are far faster and stronger than humans, capable of outrunning horses and almost able to equal the speed of dragon flight. They’re pretty much unbeatable by humans, other than dragon riders (who hav a small chance through mind capture or magical domination, galbatorix is a fine example of this
And that “magical state of mind” only occurs when he’s catching arrows and crossbow bolts, it has never come up in combat
@rahl-expert
-it is not just for catching arrows and crossbow bolts. it is an ability that he showed he had. nothing suggests it’s only for one purpose, and that would go against what magic is in the sot universe, everything works with intent, and magic is only a tool, that you use how you wish. if he can do it, and he has shown he can, then he can use it how he wants.
so rahl kills eragorn with a sub.lightning explosion covering a vast area, game over. (very well could happen this way, just stirring up debate though).
richard rahl for factpile award +1
“Richard rahl for factpile award +1″
I second this
I third Rahl for the award!
I third Rahl for the award! +1
Ok I think we meed 4 right? Anyway, I 4th
(I’m rahl-expert, I didn’t like my name)
He speaks the truth, I am now fang
So in any case, how come if we’re using Book!Rahl, he is using the original Sword of Truth rather than a fully-charged Naegling(Oromis’ sword?)
Aren’t the main advantages in stats in which the Sword of Truth >>> full-powered Naegling in the fact it can protect the mind, it has an easier time cutting through wards, and if Rahl has to fight close-quarters, then should he draw on the White Magic, he might gain the upper hand against Eragon, but at the price of a lot of agony?
Its something i forgot to ask, actually.
Well the sot isn’t really better than naegling except for it cuts through pretty much anything. Naegling is indestructible and has massive energy reserves for Eragon magic users. Rahl can only use the white blade thing against someone he loves or someone he forgives. He wouldn’t, for example, use it against jagang.
I get the feeling that from the sound of that post, that Jagang must have been too much of a complete monster for Rahl to even consider using the White Blade, in addition to coming across as a potent hypocrite, if he does it, right?
I’m not out to accuse or insult Rahl, i wish to make it clear, alright?
There was a time when curiosity nearly had me slain, but i’d best save it for another time.
So remove the enhancements in strength and agility(through increased odds of adrenaline rush!) along with more protection for the mind, plus cutting through anything(not to mention granting 3000+ Exp. to the wielder!), and Naegling may >>> Sword of Truth overall, right?
If the wielder can tap into its magical energies, then yes. Plus naegling is indestructible, so a slight edge there even if you can’t access the magic energy
Although there is a matter of blade length, I’m not sure which is longer. In that case it depends on whether you want a longer sword or shorter
So in combat, would wielding both the original SoT and Naegling(if he can tap into the reserves!) help Richard in close-quarters?
wait, what’s Naegling….is that eragon’s sword?
Nope, that’s Oromis’s sword.
@Mike
Eragon’s sword is Brisingr. It’s blue and sets on fire when he says the word.
Well ya it would definitely help a lot, but how would richard get neagling?
This would be rather tricky, especially since Murtagh might have the sword in his possession by now, and i have no idea what became of Zar’Roc after it got gained by Murtagh, as well.
In any case, if Rahl can’t grab the sword, he’ll have to use magic to fight off Eragon.
wait, what are we talking about now? are we comparing the swords?
Why do we care about whether or not murtagh has naegling?
Richard would lose.
Eragon takes the win mostly because of magic. In Eragon’s world, magic is REALLY overpowered. Magicians like Eragon can paralyze and fry an enemy in moments unless that person has magical protection or another magician backing them up.
Richard is pretty much screwed, because he can’t protect himself from Eragons magic. Eragon is an EXTREMELY powerful spellcaster, and even without the death words (which would give him an insta-win) he can obliterate a man in moments. Richard has never shown the ability to create defenses from magic, like a spell reflection or anything.
If Richard can stop rambling about choosing life over death for a few moments, he MAY be able to survive long enough to get close enough for sword duel, if Eragon conveniently forgets that he can just suck the life out of him. Then if Richard gets lucky he may be able to protect his mind from Eragons mind attack. Richard is disciplined, but he never recieved training or experience with, blocking his mind from being taken over. So likely, Eragon could snatch his mind right up, and oh, i don’t know, make him kill Kahlan. Or anything else Eragon feels like.
Ok, so maybe Richard got lucky, stopped lecturing for a moment, Eragon forgot to suck the life out of him, Richard then, against all reason, somehow defeated his mind attack. and engaged in melee.
Richard loses in a swordfight. I doubt his Sword of Truth can penetrate Eragon’s wards beccause A. it has never shown the ability to penetrate that sort of thing, and B. a cheap mord-sith trick easily defeated it, which makes me think that its pretty darn weak against magic.
Richards skills cannot make up for Eragons anime character speed, or strength (eragon killed armored men with punches.) Richard would need speed and agility thats to a level that equals Eragon’s own. Someone like Drizzt, Riddick, or anime characters would be a good example.
Richard also wears inferior armour: hes got clothes, Eragon’s got plate armor.
Richard has alot less stamina (note Eric’s explanation of Eragon’s feats of stamina)
Lastly, Eragon has a shield AND a sword against Richards SINGLE blade.
It’s not really a fair fight: in general, Eragon is insanely OP to people who don’t have the ability to protect against magic
” Then if Richard gets lucky he may be able to protect his mind from Eragons mind attack. Richard is disciplined, but he never recieved training or experience with, blocking his mind from being taken over. So likely, Eragon could snatch his mind right up, and oh, i don’t know, make him kill Kahlan. Or anything else Eragon feels like.”
To be fair, the Rahl Bond Richard shares with his troops protects him from mental intrusion. Eragon wouldn’t be able to break into his mind (unless he can find some way to overpower it? Saying it’s unbreakable is an NLF).
@Zazax
Thank you for pointing that out. I never got into the Sot series and the only time i’ve read them was long ago, so i forgot about the bond. Please feel free to remind me of any powers or abilities that are relevant that involve the SoT series.
Richard still has to somehow avoid Eragon’s powerful magic attacks (remember Richard has nothing to prevent magical attacks from hurting him), then Eragon would have to somehow forget he can siphon richard’s life, just for Richard to reach Eragon in melee combat, where the seeker would still lose.
Remember, Eragon’s magic is still capable of one-shotting large enemies even without death words. The first time he combined “brisingr” with a bow shot, he created a fireball explosion that wiped out a bunch of urgals. Sure, the effort nearly killed him, but now at the end of book three his reserve of energy has increased more than a hundredfold, so exploding arrows are pretty much effortless by now.
Also he can pick up several large urgals (orc, basically) and throw them far, killing them, with a single spell.
“Richard still has to somehow avoid Eragon’s powerful magic attacks (remember Richard has nothing to prevent magical attacks from hurting him)”
Trust me, you’ll be hearing a lot about sub. magic shields around here….
Personally I have a problem with the whole “invincible subtractive shields” theory, but even without them or the knowledge of the winds Richard has been known to reduce thousands of soldiers into bloody gore with a single blast of combined additive and subtractive lightning, which Eragon’s wards do not defend against (at least the subtractive half), and he can achieve bullet time perception for short amounts of time, meaning he will almost certainly blast Eragon into a bloody pulp (or nothingness as the case may be) before he Eragon manages to so much as draw breath.
And by the way, Richard would beat Eragon in a sword fight as well.
@Galorian
I did not contest that. Quite frankly, I have decided to completely ignore any SoT fight that involves Richard unless he faces Galactus. The same goes to Kahlan. If it involves Cara or Zedd or Chase, though, I might jump in…