Nicol Bolas Vs Final Fantasy

Nicol Bolas Vs Final Fantasy

Requested by Darkbladex96

For this match Nicol Bolas is at full power, meaning he is an immortal multiversal dragon god, with the ability to mind control multiple universes simultaneously, and universe scale, chrono manipulation, necromancy, destructive capabilities, and he can drain 5 universes of magic simultaneously. Hell, he had a fight that caused a multiversal time rift.

Nicol Bolas has sensed a massive source of mana in the Final Fantasy multiverse and in his quest for omnipotence he sees this as an unpassable opportunity to gain extra power. Bolas planeswalks into the Final Fantasy universe, his immense power tears the void wide open, and immediately everyone knows theres a problem.

Rules:
The rip in the void allows all Final Fantasy universes to interact freely with each other.
All characters, creatures are involved.

Do the universes of Final Fantasy fall to Nicol Bolas? or Can they fend off this threat?

Making his debut on Factpile is Nicol Bolas from Magic: the Gathering taking on the entire series of Final Fantasy.

And from reading the information on him, Nicol could probably handle all of them considering he managed to negate Time Magic from an expert on it! This guy did survive the Dragon War and created a realm on his own.  But the Final Fantasy crew have some very heavy hitters on all sides including Magic, Technology, and Skill. This is going to be one tough one unless they all get Mind Controlled.

What will the outcome be?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



133 Comments on "Nicol Bolas Vs Final Fantasy"

  1. Sparks September 28, 2010 at 12:01 pm -      #1

    hur dur materia durka dur?

    Just kidding, don’t even know what that other thing is 8)

  2. JoshMcFace September 28, 2010 at 12:05 pm -      #2

    Looking at the information in this match only, I’m going to have to go with the multiversal dragon god. But FF may have some gods or artifacts I’m unaware of…

  3. Siggymansz September 28, 2010 at 12:06 pm -      #3

    “For this match Nicol Bolas is at full power, meaning he is an immortal multiversal dragon god, with the ability to mind control multiple universes simultaneously, and universe scale, chrono manipulation, necromancy, destructive capabilities, and he can drain 5 universes of magic simultaneously. Hell, he had a fight that caused a multiversal time rift.”

    off the Top of my Head, I don’t see FF coming out on top of this Fight

  4. Seryj_Bog September 28, 2010 at 12:37 pm -      #4

    It is good to see somemore MTG,but it just depends on how powerful Final Fantasy’s gods are.Leave it to MTG to come up with something that can solo universes.

  5. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 1:12 pm -      #5

    FF has many multiversal thing that are a threat, such as Exdeath, totemas, and void creatures.

    thanks for posting this; however i kinda expected the Nicol bolas vs LoZ to get posted, it was way more fair IMO. but im pretty sure i FF buff can find something to give FF a total boost.

    as powerful as Bolas is i think if they can get him in the void(a big area of non existance in FF), he’ll be cut of from his power.

    in addition FF has powerful artifacts such as the Gran Grimiore which can manipulate entire diminsions.

    Bolas has mind controlled at 5 shards of alara(if your unfamiliar they are the planes of Bant, Grixis, Esper, Naya, and Jund ) at once with no noticable drain, but FF has way more then 5 universes.

  6. Seryj_Bog September 28, 2010 at 1:29 pm -      #6

    @Darkblade
    IDK with the overpowered nature of MTG characters it is very likely he could solo most of the universe.Being thrown into the void would also most likely,not affect him as he travels through planes without losing power.If Zodiark,the Ark,Eden,KotR,all versions of Bahamut,and all versions of Alexander attack at the same time they could win.

  7. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 2:10 pm -      #7

    i suggested the void because a planeswalkers is power thru his connection with mana, the void is a space of non existance meaning no mana.

    powerful planes walkers like bolas have learn to anchor themselves to the multiverses mana lanes, hed still be powerful just not godly. he could easily planes walk out of the void which is why theyd need someone like zodiark+exdeath(and eveybody else who can control the void) to keep him in there until he used up his mana.

  8. Seryj_Bog September 28, 2010 at 2:20 pm -      #8

    @DarkBlade
    Zodiark(I meant one from12) doesn’t cntrol the void he is so powerful the Occuria locked him away because they were afraid of him.

  9. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 2:20 pm -      #9

    There is a fair share of universal and multi-universal threats in Final Fantasy that have demonstrated similar skill sets as this guy. Chaos, Omega, Exdeath, Necron, etc. Not that any one of them at a first glance looks to be as powerful.

    There are also WAY more universes than 5 here for the dragon god to contend with. Even if almost everything save for the absolute most powerful characters would be all but useless during this match.

    The void too would likely work. A few characters could even pull him there. Not that I imagine the likes of Exdeath or Chaos or Omega or any of them would willingly do so.

  10. akelz7 September 28, 2010 at 3:00 pm -      #10

    Well he’s Nicol Bolas, planeswalker. He’ll make a powerful friend or two, and backstab them after his victory is assured.

  11. akelz7 September 28, 2010 at 3:01 pm -      #11

    and STILL my gravatar is unidentified

  12. Cpt Olimar September 28, 2010 at 5:39 pm -      #12

    The biggest problem in this battle is going to determine what is PIS and CIS.

    Most Final Fantasy games are plagued with the cliche that by all canon standards, the villains SHOULD win…. but they don’t. So FF fanboys will be the first to say it’s simply PIS and then boast about every amazing feat that said villains can do.

    But the problem here is how much is CIS and not PIS. Sure, the stories don’t make much sense and some has to be attributed to PIS, but CIS undoubtedly plays a big role in these uber-villains falling. Take Kefka for example, he was the frigging SOURCE of magic in FF6. If that was really true then at any point he could have simply prevented magic use by our party…. but never once tried to do this. The story implies this, but it strikes one as odd that he would be able to do it, but simply said “no” i won’t.

    If we go by story, then Kefka could prove to be a severe problem for the dragon to use magic at all. But if we look and say, well a bunch of random heroes with some espers were able to kill this “source” of magic, then it clearly can’t mean that much to be the controller of magic. However, back to the story, Kefka clearly was able to shape and form the world as he pleased… so the claim is backed up by real canon.

    I’m sure this dilemma can be applied to most FF villains which poses the biggest problem of interpretation. The most lenient interpretation makes some of these villains seem incredibly strong, but if one balances it to the heroes, then the villains aren’t THAT strong.

    Basically before this debate goes completely whack, just try to be reasonable about how strong some of these characters are

    AND

    make sure to remove all game mechanics, including but not limited to, weapons, items, armor and other equipment which is not directly supported by cutscene game canon. Basically don’t try to think up the “best material build” as that is completely dependent on the mechanics of the game and thus is ignorable. Better to look at general feats of materia and magic than saying “with this build my party and survive _____ damage”, those are simply game mechanic arguments.

    One question I have for the dragon, is would time manipulation be a viable option? As in FF1, there’s a chance that the FF universe could LITERALLY cause a draw by simply repeating time forever. “the four FIENDS sent me into the past so I could send them into the future….repeat X infinity”

    Heh, a *real* draw might be attainable in this match if the Dragon is vulnerable to it.

  13. TheUnKnownOne September 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm -      #13

    In my opinion, it depends on complete alliance of all the characters in the FF multiverse, the heros of each universe coming together would be extreme but would most likely come down to Cloud & Squall because to me they are the most powerful heros in the FF series. But if everyone were to join in including villians and optional bosses that are more powerful than most standerd bosses they would stand a great chance, considering that most of the villians contain at least one of Nicol Bolas abilites. But if im wrong let me know

  14. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 6:50 pm -      #14

    “One question I have for the dragon, is would time manipulation be a viable option? As in FF1, there’s a chance that the FF universe could LITERALLY cause a draw by simply repeating time forever. “the four FIENDS sent me into the past so I could send them into the future….repeat X infinity”
    Heh, a *real* draw might be attainable in this match if the Dragon is vulnerable to it.”

    naw Nicol is a blue, black, red planeswalker with knowledge of every form of magic in those colors of mana. he has been up against teferi, and time/reality manipulator who could phase out entire universes and sealed a the Madaran time rift(rip in time between universes). his time magic wasnt enough to beat Nicol Bolas.

    “If we go by story, then Kefka could prove to be a severe problem for the dragon to use magic at all.”

    this is an advantage because of Nicols CIS, nicol will only appear in person if hes getting annoyed otherwise he uses an Etheral Avatar created by anchoring himself into a universes magic. Kefka could either severly weaken this avatar or keep nicol from using it at all. but Nicols mana comes from the universes hes anchored to, like Dominaria, or grixis. Dominaria is the nexus of the multiverse, mean that its where all the mana lines from every other universe converge, this is what Nicol draw his power from i doubt Kefka can do anything about that.

    according to Nicols CIS, FF has at least 2-3000 years before he gets pissed enough to appear again, unless they find him which i doubt.

  15. Terminal devastation September 28, 2010 at 7:42 pm -      #15

    There’s a factor that I don’t think will be considered unless I bring it up… and that is the FF multiverse may also include non-numbered entries. I’ll point out crystal chronicals specifically. There are two characters that could, if they worked together may cause HUGE problems for Nicol. Mio and Raem.
    1) Both of them may not be perminatly killable
    2)All they would need to do is pig out like no tommorrow on him and Nicol would go senile. With the added bonus of new monsters appearing, with the possibility of being QUITE strong… if the monsters are based on the strenght of the devoured memories.

    Lots of power is kinda useless if you don’t remember it.

    There’s also the book from FFTA which might have enough power to nerf Nicol.
    Thats just off the top of my head.

    But who knows… maybe some obsure status effect might effect Nicol as well.

  16. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 9:23 pm -      #16

    I new the heroes were going to be all but useless in a fight of this magnitude. Which is why I didn’t mention any of them. In VERY few cases they won legitimately and is wasn’t always in part due to their own strength but instead something else entirely.

    Moving on though it’s a bunch of inter-dimensional and unquantifiable things against another inter-dimensional unquantifiable thing. Can we even debate this?

  17. Envoy September 28, 2010 at 9:26 pm -      #17

    “Can we even debate this?”

    This is factpile.

  18. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 9:38 pm -      #18

    well considering Nicol rarely uses hi

    “2)All they would need to do is pig out like no tommorrow on him and Nicol would go senile. With the added bonus of new monsters appearing, with the possibility of being QUITE strong… if the monsters are based on the strenght of the devoured memories.”

    can you explain a little better? i dont follow exactly. does he eat memories and makes monsters from them? if so Bolas would see something this determental with precog. nicol could see into the future and rearrange events so that those events never happen. also blue and black have many abilities that can recover memories. it doesnt matter if they can be killed black has was around this, Nicol can clone them, then exile them into non existance.

    “There’s also the book from FFTA which might have enough power to nerf Nicol.”

    The Gran Grimiore, i brought it up, it would help FF, but it couldnt cut nicol from his powers.

    “But who knows… maybe some obsure status effect might effect Nicol as well.”

    blue mana can remove undesireable status effects or shourd him from magic effects aimed at him. blue plus red equals a spell call swerve meaning if someone tries to do something to Nicol he can redirect it to another. plus most of the time hes not using his real body.

    Nicol can kinda timestop(or time stop) universes, by essentially making them incapable of advancing into tho future, not a full timestop because people can still move and what not, but time never goes forward, and nothing will ever replenish.

    he can cause a massive time warp with black mana, this time warp can be stopped if someone sacrifices them-self. thru manipulation he can convince every one that a power player for FF should kill themselves to stop the time warp. then turn around and make a time warp that they can do nothing about.

    he can cause the various planets of FF to have an acid rain that removes them from existance. and i havent even really brought up his red aspect.

    and if they dont submit then they die….
    www.magiccards.info/pc/en/85.html
    www.magiccards.info/arc/en/95.html
    www.magiccards.info/query?q=obliterate&v=card&s=cname

  19. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 10:14 pm -      #19

    Moving on though it’s a bunch of inter-dimensional and unquantifiable things against another inter-dimensional unquantifiable thing. Can we even debate this?

    Nicol is very qualifiable, he has a good back story that gives us 3 feats/information immediately.

    1. His attacks caused the Multiversal time rifts,
    2. resisted time control from Teferi who was powerful enough to repair a time rift
    3. hes over 25,000 years old and most of his life was spent in the Dragon Wars.

    later we get these feats/info

    1. Nicol abandoning his own body to go into the the spirit world, and of him surviving thru his ambient energy.
    2. Nicol has an artifact called mask of nights reach which can imprision anything aligned with black magic.
    3.he can read, and control minds across multiple universes, he can affect mutliple verse at a time.
    4. he created the shard of grixis, which is a part of the plane of Alara. (1/5 of a uinverse)

    common knowledge:

    Nicol is a blue/red/black planeswalker with 25,000 years under his belt. the spells in MTG are merely the different ways mana can be manipulated to meet an end. Nicol should be more then capable of invoking any effect from his three colors.

    Nicol bolas Quotes and references:

    “Life and Death are both reversable.”
    -Soul manipulation

    “Nicol Bolas doesnt distinguish between servants and victims”
    -Slave of Bolas

    Nicol Bolas is one of the most powerful Cards in MTG
    www.magiccards.info/query?q=!Nicol+Bolas,+Planeswalker

  20. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 10:18 pm -      #20

    Man, I need more people to play with. Wish I could find my missing 2 decks too..

    Touche, Envyoy

  21. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 10:20 pm -      #21

    Oh, and many of the things I mentioned in favor of helping FF were all villains. Many likely tied with black.

    huh..

  22. akelz7 September 28, 2010 at 10:31 pm -      #22

    Nice to see my main man looking good before I sleep. One more thing to toss in there, the only thing I know of that beat him in a fight was an avatar of himself.

  23. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 10:33 pm -      #23

    “Man, I need more people to play with. Wish I could find my missing 2 decks too..”

    same here, i have have this bant deck that i wanna use but i dont have the time find anyone to play with.

    i find it funny that my favorite character in MTG is Nicol bolas, but i suck at playing his colors.

    “Oh, and many of the things I mentioned in favor of helping FF were all villains. Many likely tied with black.”

    oh..into the mask.

  24. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 10:36 pm -      #24

    I suck with blue. Period. I can’t do it. At all.

    I’m epic with white and green individually. Red I’m so-so with. And I got this foil deck that yeah it takes a bit of time to build up but once things are down nothing’s stopping me.

  25. CIDE September 28, 2010 at 10:41 pm -      #25

    Well, at least with the crowd that I used to be able to play with.

    Now I’m depressed.

  26. akelz7 September 28, 2010 at 10:43 pm -      #26

    I suck at most anything I use. I’m best with monos or blue-white/black-red/green-blue.

  27. Darkbladex96 September 28, 2010 at 11:07 pm -      #27

    “I suck at most anything I use. I’m best with monos or blue-white/black-red/green-blue.”

    most people who say they suck at most decks usually do well with 1 of the shards.

    “I suck with blue. Period. I can’t do it. At all.”

    its hard to get a good balance with blue, too much control and you lose. thats why i either splash it with something, which led me to bant.

    “I’m epic with white and green individually. Red I’m so-so with. And I got this foil deck that yeah it takes a bit of time to build up but once things are down nothing’s stopping me.”

    with my bant deck i can kill people by turn 4-5..i think

    turn 1: noble hierarch
    turn 2: shorecrasher mimic
    turn 3: Rafiq of the Many, swing for 14 with the mimic
    turn 4: Finest hour, swing for 32 with the mimic

    yea thats a win.

    i started playing bant because its so versitile.

  28. Atma September 28, 2010 at 11:25 pm -      #28

    I predict the casualties for the Final Fantasy characters would be huge, but in the end, I believe the last men standing would be Sabin, Cloud, Vivi, Auron, and Balthier with Sabin delivering the finishing suplex to the dragon beast.

  29. CIDE September 29, 2010 at 1:56 am -      #29

    None of the above mentioned characters would likely survive without the aid of writers and shit.

    None of those guys are true powerhouses. In their own respective universes maybe. But we’re looking at something bigger and badder than anything Cloud has fought. I can’t say anything about Sabin but out of those I know Vivi has fought the strongest and baddest thing.

  30. ComPewTrNerd September 29, 2010 at 3:22 am -      #30

    You know, I have to wonder what sort of effects the Draw ability from the FF8 series would have on Nicol Bolas. Could you use his own spells that way? It’d be hilarious if his own magics came back to bite him in the arse because a few of the FF8 crowd kept drawing them off of him.

    Either way, unless the Villains from all the collective FF series get involved, this is a lost cause for FF

  31. akelz7 September 29, 2010 at 6:22 am -      #31

    @darkblade Yes I preform well with Naya.

  32. Terminal devastation September 29, 2010 at 7:23 am -      #32

    *Spoiler*
    All the monsters in FFCC are the result of Raem gorging himself on peoples memories. Rio on the other hand, also feeds on memories, but merely nibbles and disposes of the waste properly. So whether or not she can actually make monsters should she gorge… is actually unknown, but logically possible.

    Anyways… Future sight might not work that well, Don’t know if events can be manipulated in such a way that they wouldn’t take notice… given the base scenario.
    Only way is if all villains were already defeated… but that would also destroy the bulk of the power Nicol wanted, and I don’t think he’d go for that.

    Now that I’m remembering my MTG… I figure the biggest heroic threat is Aeris. Even if she dies. Namely due to the Holy and lifestream, which I’m SURE would hit Nicol hard. since Holy is clearly closest to White and Lifestream is Green(ish).

    Speaking of equivelance… game mechanics aside… FF universe clearly operates on a different physics system than MTG, so just how much of the magic would Nicole actually know?

    I mean the best explaination I can figure is the FF universe uses Colorless Mana (or in FF7’s case Green) to mimic the other colors.

    And then there’s Yuffie’s conformer. Which gains strength from the difference of power. I figure there’s no way he’d know that… even with future sight. He’d just know that its a powerful weapon. He might take action to deal with it… all someone has to to is find it and throw it at him… as since game mechanics are thrown out… it could hurt… Alot.

    By the way… Is there an actual card for Nicol? If so… Toughness/power?

  33. Corran_Star September 29, 2010 at 8:34 am -      #33

    I’m surprised no one mentioned Terra among the heavy hitters. Oh well. In addition, with Jenova on their side, they can effectively be immune to mind control, if they want to take on infection.

    In either case, FF does have some gods, including Chaos and Cosmos. And some people like Seymour and Auron just won’t die! I think over time they’d hammer him down. Futhermore, if they can lure Nicol into any FF universe, Kefka can snip his silver chord of magic right there, leaving him in our universe without his nexus of power.

  34. Corran_Star September 29, 2010 at 8:39 am -      #34

    Or we just let him kill Sin, become Sin, then kill him.

  35. Pillar of Autumn September 29, 2010 at 8:40 am -      #35

    FF does not accord to conventional battle physics and thus is not worthy of orthodox debates. Whatever the FF people might say about this comment, I stand corrected until an FP giant stomps me.

  36. galorian September 29, 2010 at 8:44 am -      #36

    Been years since I played MTG. Back then my main deck was a blue/artifact deck made up mostly of arcbound and affinity cards (nyms, broodstars, etc…). Man that deck was fast…

    I was seriously bummed out when skullclamp was banned.

    My second deck was a black zombie deck with some nice morphing zombies and plenty of kill spells mixed in. Added phage the untouchable to the deck just to spice things up.

    This one was great at countering elf decks.

    Sure brings up memories…

  37. Darkbladex96 September 29, 2010 at 9:50 am -      #37

    “By the way… Is there an actual card for Nicol? If so… Toughness/power?”

    Nicol Bolas was a creature card with 7/7, but that was him in the dragon wars before he became a planeswalker.

    “Anyways… Future sight might not work that well, Don’t know if events can be manipulated in such a way that they wouldn’t take notice… given the base scenario.”

    the void has alway connected the FF universes, the only thing different here is that its stuck open, unless the character is a massive time controller or immune to universal laws of time they wouldnt notice nicol rearranging time. how could they?

    “Only way is if all villains were already defeated… but that would also destroy the bulk of the power Nicol wanted, and I don’t think he’d go for that.”

    what do the villians have to do with nicols time control? alot of them arent strong enough to stop it alone. also they arent the power that Nicol is looking for, hed be after things like the life stream, the Gran Grimiore, the totema crystals, the orbs from FFT, summon beasts, things like that.

    “Now that I’m remembering my MTG… I figure the biggest heroic threat is Aeris. Even if she dies. Namely due to the Holy and lifestream, which I’m SURE would hit Nicol hard. since Holy is clearly closest to White and Lifestream is Green(ish).”

    no where was it stated that nicol was weak to white, it would matter much since nicol can cause holy to fizzle out before cast, shourd himself from it, or simply direct it somewhere else.

    “Speaking of equivelance… game mechanics aside… FF universe clearly operates on a different physics system than MTG, so just how much of the magic would Nicole actually know?”

    how would this affect nicol? he is anchored to mana from another universe being there doesnt affect his powers. also MTG works really well with the law of equivenlance since mana comes from different sources, Green= life and growth; red=destruction, rage, passion, and freedom; White=law, and order; Black= death, ambition, and selfishness; Blue=control, knowledge, logic. if these things exist in FF nicol can draw power from them, if mountains, swamps, and islands exist in FF Nicol can draw from them as well. but he really doesnt need to.

    “I mean the best explaination I can figure is the FF universe uses Colorless Mana (or in FF7′s case Green) to mimic the other colors.”

    the life stream would be akin to 5 color mana or because souls go there after they die, white/black; nature exposed to it grows rapidly, Green; it contains all the knowledge of those who died, blue; idk if its destrcutive.

    “And then there’s Yuffie’s conformer. Which gains strength from the difference of power. I figure there’s no way he’d know that… even with future sight. He’d just know that its a powerful weapon. He might take action to deal with it… all someone has to to is find it and throw it at him… as since game mechanics are thrown out… it could hurt… Alot.”

    hmmm…..does it actually have a feat outside GM? becuase im pretty sure it cant span any gap in power. and how would future sight not work? unless someone is disrupting it theres nothing stopping him from rearranging the events.

    “In either case, FF does have some gods, including Chaos and Cosmos. And some people like Seymour and Auron just won’t die! I think over time they’d hammer him down. Futhermore, if they can lure Nicol into any FF universe, Kefka can snip his silver chord of magic right there, leaving him in our universe without his nexus of power.”

    well auron actually was dead, if hes dead nicol can exile him to a space of nothing. Kefka has been dealt with already, he cant cut Nicols mana lines only if nicol gets stuck in the void will he run out of mana, or be powerless.

    “I’m surprised no one mentioned Terra among the heavy hitters. Oh well. In addition, with Jenova on their side, they can effectively be immune to mind control, if they want to take on infection.”

    can you explain terra and seymour? also how would jenovas infection cause immunity from Nicols mind control?

  38. Cpt Olimar September 29, 2010 at 9:55 am -      #38

    this
    “I predict the casualties for the Final Fantasy characters would be huge, but in the end, I believe the last men standing would be Sabin, Cloud, Vivi, Auron, and Balthier with Sabin delivering the finishing suplex to the dragon beast.”

    Is really dumb. You know what happened if you cut Sabin or Cloud’s head off? They die. You know what happens if you shoot a shotgun at balthier? He dies.

    We are talking about a interdimensional being here. Suplexing it? Really? I think it’s own gravitational field itself would destroy planets, good luck suplexing that when he can’t even suplex everything in FF6.

    If FF7 teaches us anything, it’s that all those revive spells and phoenix downs mean absolutely nothing when you take mortal damage, and that’s the only kind of damage this beast is going to deliver. One hit, and our emo-boy cloud face’s is in the dirt, lifeless. Apply this to practically every FF hero, they are notoriously underpowered.

    Although I have one interesting possibility. What about Relm? She is able to not just “cause her drawings to come to life” but she can also canonically use the attacks of the things that she draws.

    What if she drew this omnidragon when CIS was happening. How strong are his defenses to his offenses, because if he is someone who dishes more damage than he can take… Relm’s attacks might sting….

    But that would require her to draw him… does he even appear in the visible light spectra?

    Ugh.. I hate matches which come down to who breaks the most laws of physics in the most offensive ways wins. I like my fantasy battles, but when you are this strong you think even astrophysicists could even debate this intelligently? Even comprehending the ways in which this dragon would interact with his surroundings is way beyond us… so its mostly speculations.

    But the dragon seems like the obvious winner here.

  39. Chuck inglish September 29, 2010 at 10:24 am -      #39

    Is cloud allowed to use his materia

  40. Lord Apolyon September 29, 2010 at 11:21 am -      #40

    Then Snow punches him!
    *suppressing laughter*
    But, if i read this right, he can be defeated by “an avatar of himself”, so wouldn’t Relm’s draw work?

  41. Terminal devastation September 29, 2010 at 1:18 pm -      #41

    “how would this affect nicol? he is anchored to mana from another universe being there doesnt affect his powers. ”
    Not my point. I’m saying that he wouldn’t have knowledge of the FF worlds’ magic. The difference wouldn’t effect him… but it allows FF to surprise him a few times.

    “what do the villians have to do with nicols time control? alot of them arent strong enough to stop it alone. also they arent the power that Nicol is looking for, hed be after things like the life stream, the Gran Grimiore, the totema crystals, the orbs from FFT, summon beasts, things like that.”
    In many cases the villain ends up activating, absorbing, and destroying the powers he’d notice. My point is would he even bother with the ravaged worlds of post villain FFs? FF1’s biggest power is Choas. FF2 I forget… but I think it was the villains. Kefka pretty much wrecked every significant power other than himself, and ended up dying. And so on. So several cases of event manipulation would lead to him altering himself to not noticing several of the worlds.

    A few other factors I’ve thought of. Saves and Ribbons. Now, yes I know saves are mostly a game mechanic… but in several FF games they are refered to by characters directly and in one case you can make one… suggesting the possiblity of them being more than just a simple game mechanic. However… The significance of non-game mechanic save would be minor, and merely turn the whole thing into an endless cycle of Nicol destroying the heroes. Long shot yeah I know… but something to think about for a moment before discarding it.

    Ribbons on the other hand WOULD make an impact. They basically prevent status effects except death. Given that’s what they always do, I’m pretty sure they always do that when equiped no matter what. And they would in fact prevent Nicol from blocking the casting of spells and block mind control. As for rearranging the events stopping someone from getting one… Good luck with that Nicol. The odds are against Nicol here, given how many there can be. Sure its possible.. but unless he deals with them by destroying planets out right before he has a chance to gain their power… Theres a good chance someone would take notice.

  42. Belisaurius September 29, 2010 at 1:37 pm -      #42

    Hmm… Maybe both Jenova and the life stream could slow him down.

    Also, Nicol Bolas is no longer an interdimensional dragon-god. He’s just a planeswalking dragon. This still makes him one of the scariest beings in existence.

  43. Darkbladex96 September 29, 2010 at 2:35 pm -      #43

    “Also, Nicol Bolas is no longer an interdimensional dragon-god. He’s just a planeswalking dragon. This still makes him one of the scariest beings in existence.”

    read scenario, hes full power meaning full elder god powers, full planeswalker abilities at pre mending lvl, and all the power he absorbed during the conflux.

    “Not my point. I’m saying that he wouldn’t have knowledge of the FF worlds’ magic. The difference wouldn’t effect him… but it allows FF to surprise him a few times.”

    not really, MTG has every magical effect seen in FF plus thousands more…i cant think of anything in FF that hasnt been done in MTG 10x larger.

    “Ribbons on the other hand WOULD make an impact. They basically prevent status effects except death. Given that’s what they always do, I’m pretty sure they always do that when equiped no matter what. And they would in fact prevent Nicol from blocking the casting of spells and block mind control. As for rearranging the events stopping someone from getting one… Good luck with that Nicol. The odds are against Nicol here, given how many there can be. Sure its possible.. but unless he deals with them by destroying planets out right before he has a chance to gain their power… Theres a good chance someone would take notice.”

    the ribbon isnt that powerful, it cant stop nicol from fizzling their magic because counterspells work against the spell itself not the person. name an enemy as powerful as Nicol who can mind control. The ribbon is a no limits fallacy, however Nicol can inflict many things that dont occur in FF so ribbons arent a problem, and i havent seen any proof of anyone or anything from FF powerful enough to interfere with Nicols time abilities.

    for your statement on the villians, each final fantasy universe has everything in perfect order, nothing screwed up.

    “So several cases of event manipulation would lead to him altering himself to not noticing several of the worlds.”

    not following nicol can see and manipulate future events, hed still know what shouldve happened and how it shouldve happened.

    “The odds are against Nicol here, given how many there can be. Sure its possible.. but unless he deals with them by destroying planets out right before he has a chance to gain their power… Theres a good chance someone would take notice.”

    Naw odds are pretty fair. FF has more fight then i first thought, but im not seeing too many things actually being such a threat that he cant either flatout overpower or plan around.

    “But, if i read this right, he can be defeated by “an avatar of himself”, so wouldn’t Relm’s draw work?”

    the avatar of nicol was summon out from his soul by another planeswalker.

    “What if she drew this omnidragon when CIS was happening. How strong are his defenses to his offenses, because if he is someone who dishes more damage than he can take… Relm’s attacks might sting….”

    IDK how much light this will shed, but Nicol fought for a month straight against a Demonic leviatian during the dragon wars…thier battle caused the first time rift and destroyed 1/3 or thier universe, this is before he was a planeswalker. Besides if he dies he wont be “dead” he can reform from a spirit, and if his spirit is destroyed hes still not gone, he can return from his energy.

    “But that would require her to draw him… does he even appear in the visible light spectra?”

    He can, but there are invisiblity spells, and abilities the keep him form being targeted by effects like that. chances are if she sees him its either and avatar, a clone, an illusion, or shes mind contolled.

  44. akelz7 September 29, 2010 at 3:54 pm -      #44

    we need more Nico Bolas, he’s my favorite villain ever

  45. Darkbladex96 September 29, 2010 at 5:07 pm -      #45

    “we need more Nico Bolas, he’s my favorite villain ever.”

    i had another one of him against LoZ, with Jace, Chandra, and Tezzert as his generals

  46. akelz7 September 29, 2010 at 5:12 pm -      #46

    no,no,no. Add sharkon vol. And Jace is my favorite magic wielder that’s not a villain.

  47. Darkbladex96 September 29, 2010 at 5:19 pm -      #47

    Sharkon vol should replace chandra?

  48. akelz7 September 29, 2010 at 5:27 pm -      #48

    he should at LEAST be in the mix, being a servant of Bolas and all. We need an Eldrazi versus Iron Giant match. IG can’t hurt the Eldrazi and the Eldrazi are tireless destroyers. If they weren’t trapped in physical bodies, they’d win

  49. CIDE September 29, 2010 at 8:58 pm -      #49

    I will say it now since people aren’t getting the hints. NOTHING in Final Fantasy VII’s-verse would be able to even phase Nicol here. They have some power houses in the form of heroes. Compare them to the other FF’s and other universes.

    The absolute strongest thing they fought was on a planetary scale only. This was Omega that Vincent/Chaos took down. Beyond that it only starts getting smaller wtih Sephiroth, the WEAPONS, etc.

    There is no thing they can do–materia or not–to Nicol.

    The way I see it the only method FF can stand up to this guy is if it were somehow laid out in a Dissidia type setting. That said we’re having multiple parties showing up. Not just the single hero from a specific game that only survives and wins in a solo match against their respective villain by PIS/CIS.

    No, we’d be looking at the likes of Chaos, Necron, Exdeath, Kefka, Trance Kuja, Omega (multiple versions of such), The Unlimiteds, all the summons/gods/aeons/etc, everything all at once attacking this guy on multiple levels of existence.

    As it stands with everyone separated I don’t think FF stands a chance. Solo this guy’s standing above FF’s biggest bad guy (opinion only of course).

  50. Darkbladex96 September 29, 2010 at 9:18 pm -      #50

    @Cide

    “Rules:
    The rip in the void allows all Final Fantasy universes to interact freely with each other.
    All characters, creatures are involved.”

    they dont understand this part of the rules….they are free to do just exactly what you said attack with everything from multiple places..but they still have to follow CIS, summon creatures dont just do what you want, some gods have summon rituals, etc….theyd still have to do all that. they really didnt read the rules.

    @Akelz7

    i did forget that about Sharkan Vol, ill probably add them both send.

  51. CIDE September 29, 2010 at 9:29 pm -      #51

    Oh, I know they CAN interact. Doesn’t mean they freely do so (I.E. Dissidia style).

    Also, many summons are existing NPC’s in that world. Or higher dimensional entities that freely interact with the one we see in any respective FF game. I doubt they’d sit by as something greater than anything they’ve ever faced is attempting to eat their world.

    Still, alone they wouldn’t be able to do it. Even the strongest incarnations of Bahamut couldn’t do it alone despite being the “dragon god”.

  52. nolston September 29, 2010 at 11:02 pm -      #52

    I don’t know anything about Nicol, but I wouldn’t say that FFVII’s materia is useless. I’m not going to say that their magic can harm Nicol, but since that can interact does this not mean that FFVII’s magic will work on all of the FF universe? For example, would shield+all not mean that every creature in the FF universe would now have shield cast on them? Another helpful magic would be final attack+Phoenix, would this not revive ALL of the FF universe when one of the FFVII heroes fall(provided of course that they are not vaporized)?

    Another question I have, would reflect work on Nicol’s magic? I realize that some spells could probably get through, but keep in mind that reflect works on spells like Pandora’s box which were made to go through all defenses.

  53. CIDE September 29, 2010 at 11:09 pm -      #53

    We discussed the usage of revive spells. They don’t actually revive someone from DEATH but instead a kind of Knocked out status. If that were the case every character that had ever died in final fantasy wouldn’t have actually died. Granted in IV they had the uncanny ability to come back to life on their own (with the exception of Tellah. Poor Sage..)

    Besides, the strongest two materia attacks in all of FFVII were BARELY planetary level in power. They had even said that Meteor wasn’t going to destroy the planet but instead simply damage it to the point that Sephiroth could absorb all of the released mako/lifestream that would be used to heal the planet. The view of Meteor during gameplay doesn’t count.

    Ultima too (despite being called “omnidirectional” by someone here) was ultimately a very small and weak attack in FFVII. Holy too seemed more defensive than anything else.

    Kuja’s Ultima on the other hand busted planets with little visible effort. Not to many other villains that could bust planets.

    Just because FFVII was the most popular doesn’t mean it had the strongest characters or the best story. I see nothing from this universe being anything but fodder or distractions.

  54. nolston September 29, 2010 at 11:15 pm -      #54

    @CIDE

    There is a difference between a revive spell and summoning a Phoenix which has the ability to revive people, hell the spells name is even “Rebirth Flame”.

    I never said anything about offensive magic, my question was if spells like shield and cure3 plus all would work across the FF universe.

  55. CIDE September 29, 2010 at 11:17 pm -      #55

    I imagine support spells would work across the board without any faults. Haste would still be haste, regen would still be regen, barrier would still be barrier, etc.

    Also nothing to indicate that phoenix works any better than say revive or phoenix down. It just targets the whole party and does damage at the same time.

  56. nolston September 30, 2010 at 12:00 am -      #56

    @CIDE

    Then shield would still negate all elemental magics and physical attacks, and it would work on everyone with one spell. I would imagine that FFVII would then be the best for supporting magic.

    You mean besides that fact that it is a Phoenix which grants its powers of rebirth to whoever summoned it and their “party”? I’m not going to debate if revive actually revives the dead and everything plot related was PIS, such a thing would be pointless as it would never end. Also don’t use Aerith as an example, had she not died the planet would not have been saved from meteor.

  57. CIDE September 30, 2010 at 12:05 am -      #57

    She’s not the only example of a character’s death being permanent. Also the story doesn’t negate the fact that if a phoenix down or revive spell would’ve worked they would’ve at least tried it.

    Regardless, you are right about Shield. Not sure if it would last or whether or not if nicol could just negate it. Pretty sure he has enough force behind any of his magic to deal with something such as that.

  58. nolston September 30, 2010 at 12:23 am -      #58

    @CIDE

    Who knows why they die, maybe they can only come back to life if they wish to or maybe not. I’ve seen several explanations, but we can’t prove or disprove any of them. Unless you have information from Square that I am not aware of

    Not sure, there is no elemental or physical attack that has ever breached it. I’m not saying it is without limits, merely that shields limit is unknown. I’m still curious if reflect will be effective.

  59. Seryj_Bog September 30, 2010 at 12:54 am -      #59

    @Cide
    I think the revive spells and items are kind of iffy.Especially considering they can be used against oponents that should be able to kill humans(Example:King Behemoth after it uses meteor which should kill a normal person) and then when someone dies in the story they never use it.I am not using this a durablility feat ,as I know that is game mechanics,but I don’t see how meteors would only K.O. someone (not too mention the spell Death).

    From Final Fantasy Wiki (I know it is a wiki,but where else are you supposed to get this info especially considering how long it takes to get too a specific point in the game) “The Aletap Rumors of Final Fantasy XII say that Phoenix Down works by being offered to appeal to the mystical Phoenix itself to allow a lost soul to return, with the quality and overall beauty of the current feather being a crucial factor”

    It is then explained that the status is K.O. in the newer games and Death in the earlier ones.Later it says that the Status can be negated by Auto-life(why would auto-life counter K.O.?).Then it says that this differant from story deaths.So basically it is just one big contradictory circle.

    Are we taking damage,effect,or animation into account?Speaking of effects how to we determine equipment for the faceless characters (the ones who play no real part in the story such as clan members in Tactics)?Another point I would like to bring up is if we get abunch of characters to cast the same spell would it work (such as stop,death,break,etc…)Finally in Universe battles isn’t it generally everything fights on a team no matter what?

  60. Darkbladex96 September 30, 2010 at 9:33 am -      #60

    “For example, would shield+all not mean that every creature in the FF universe would now have shield cast on them?”

    from my understanding shield all only worked on the party, meaning that each instance of it has a radius, so im guessing that with more and more materia a larger shield could be created, but 1 shield all probably can only help 7 people at a time.

    “Not sure, there is no elemental or physical attack that has ever breached it. I’m not saying it is without limits, merely that shields limit is unknown. I’m still curious if reflect will be effective.”

    which is a big problem, without an actual feat from it we dont know how powerful it is. but because its stuck on the characters it counts as an enchantment, which nicol can remove.

    and i dont think there is any revive spell in FF that would be effective against they ways Nicol could kill them

  61. nolston September 30, 2010 at 10:25 am -      #61

    @Darkbladex

    I’m not sure, you only have three party members in a battle at a time in FFVII, but the description says, “paired materia affects all”. By the term “party” I would guess it would work for all allies, if Cloud and his team think of the rest of the FF universe as allies would it affect them as well?

    We have no feats beyond shield absorbing all the physical attacks and elemental magic in the game. Even if he can remove it, Cloud and his team can just cast it again, and since they are in their world they would have access to their turbo ethers would they not? Unless Nicol can target several worlds at once Cloud can just rebuff everybody while they work on killing Nicol.

    Also, somebody brought up Relm’s draw ability, this is potentially their greatest attack as draw summons up a copy of the enemy to use its best attack against it once then Relm has to draw it again. This means that Relm could contentiously draw Nicolas to have a copy attack him, even if this doesn’t kill him I bet it will weaken him.

    This battle is going to have to many game mechanics.

  62. CIDE September 30, 2010 at 10:29 am -      #62

    Can physical attacks even hurt this guy?

    Well, guess not since he can revive himself from spirit form. At that point though we’d have to look at any particular person/race adept at dealing with spirits. Hopefully someone around can eat’em or fight them effectively.

  63. Darkbladex96 September 30, 2010 at 12:00 pm -      #63

    “I would guess it would work for all allies, if Cloud and his team think of the rest of the FF universe as allies would it affect them as well?”

    FF is vauge, im thinking the moves in the FF games like 7, where your party is right next to you work like moves in FFT..they have a definite range, shield all would most likely affect all Allies in range, but then again we dont quite know.

    “Cloud and his team can just cast it again, and since they are in their world they would have access to their turbo ethers would they not?”

    yea they would have the ethers, but Nicol can stop the spell, or since its not actually a threat to him directly, he can punish them for their choices with world wide enchantments. like if you cast a spell, you lose memories; cast a spell and lose 1/3 of your memories, you can only cast a spell or fight, once you take either action you cant do anything else, drain thier memories for life force.

    he can go thru thier memories until he finds a summon monster and then he can summon it as his slave, then force you to forget every memory he went thru.

    “Also, somebody brought up Relm’s draw ability, this is potentially their greatest attack as draw summons up a copy of the enemy to use its best attack against it once then Relm has to draw it again. This means that Relm could contentiously draw Nicolas to have a copy attack him, even if this doesn’t kill him I bet it will weaken him.”

    Depends, it could be a copy of nicol that she copies, or it might not work at all since nicol can make himself immune to magic and abilities that would affect him.

    “Can physical attacks even hurt this guy?”

    yea they can, its just hard to get past the Defenses, foresight, abilities. and once your past that hes still an elder dragon that fought A demon for a month on end, the battle destroyed a third of thier universe so he can take some big hits.

    “Well, guess not since he can revive himself from spirit form. At that point though we’d have to look at any particular person/race adept at dealing with spirits. Hopefully someone around can eat’em or fight them effectively.”

    he can revive from spirit form correct, but it goes even further after his body was destroyed his spirit went to the meditation plane, there he was killed again. he revived from lingering energy.

  64. nolston September 30, 2010 at 1:41 pm -      #64

    @Darkbladex

    No, the rest of the party is split up from you, at least that is what Barret tells you in Kalm. The PHS is basically a cell phone you use to call your allies and switch party members. Besides, in the final battle with Sephiroth the rest of the party is present but they get no affects from the buffs of the three people fighting Sephiroth.

    Regardless, this seems like a ridiculously one sided match, why would you even suggest this? Doesn’t matter who Nicol is fighting he could wipe out all their memories thus making them useless.

  65. Darkbladex96 September 30, 2010 at 2:09 pm -      #65

    “Regardless, this seems like a ridiculously one sided match, why would you even suggest this? Doesn’t matter who Nicol is fighting he could wipe out all their memories thus making them useless.”

    with all of FF gods, powerful magics, legendary artifacts, summons, etc…i thought they could fight back. FF has some powerful lore but i guess they were just full themselves.

    plus fanwank from other people make them sound alot stronger then they are.

  66. nolston September 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm -      #66

    @Darkbladex

    It is not that they are weak, it is that Nicol is apparently overpowered to the point of absurdity. How can anyone fight back if all their memories were erased? They do have several things they could use to fight back, but if their memories are erased then it is all pointless.

  67. CIDE September 30, 2010 at 2:38 pm -      #67

    Still looking like only the big powers can fight back. The major villains that were only defeated via PIS/CIS.

  68. Darkbladex96 September 30, 2010 at 4:26 pm -      #68

    what about Nicol Bolas vs one of WH40ks Chaos gods, is that fair?

    “It is not that they are weak, it is that Nicol is apparently overpowered to the point of absurdity.”

    I knew MTG was a powerful universe, but i didnt think it was this overpowering.

    so whats the verdict? Nicol wins after all the bad guys basically throw everything at him? is that worth a FP award?

  69. Seryj_Bog September 30, 2010 at 4:34 pm -      #69

    @Darkblade
    Yeh he wins.No it is not really worthy of an award.I have a question now how is it that MTG hasn’t beaten DC yet?

  70. CIDE September 30, 2010 at 4:36 pm -      #70

    Because the DC guys aren’t giving up the “Prime is immune to dimensional attacks” bit.

  71. Seryj_Bog September 30, 2010 at 4:55 pm -      #71

    @Cide
    I forgot about him.

  72. Darkbladex96 September 30, 2010 at 5:09 pm -      #72

    Well prime is immune to reality changing effects, and resistant to magic. he is the most powerful thing in DC, also he becomes the Time Ripper in an alternate time line and has every power and ability from across all time.

    oh and we know nothing of the omnipotents in MTG so DC wins there.

    i really cant think of anything to kill prime.

  73. CIDE September 30, 2010 at 5:10 pm -      #73

    Distinct lack of sun light to draw upon while fighting creatures just as invulnerable as he is.

    That might do it.

  74. CIDE October 5, 2010 at 2:44 am -      #74

    And I would think a “destroy artifact” spell would destroy his sunlight armor too to make a lack of yellow sun light even more important.

  75. cyborg pirate ninja jesus October 6, 2010 at 11:45 pm -      #75

    just wondering how powerful the judges from (tactictics i think) are, because having a good no cast and no attack cast on him will probably be useful.

    ff also has the void which as far as i can tell simply turns things into non existence, and characters like the omega weapon have been found in there, but again im not sure if they could work on someone this powerful

  76. CIDE October 7, 2010 at 3:24 am -      #76

    Judges aren’t anything special in the vast universe of Final Fantasy.

  77. Corran_Star October 16, 2010 at 4:43 pm -      #77

    Judges are powerful, but eh.. not on this scale.

    So.. people actually need to speak their mind about this. Many have ruled out Kefka without explaining exactly why he can’t control Nicol’s use of magic in this world with Kefka being… the source of magic in this world.
    If it was because Kefka was beaten by the party in FFVI. Then he who beat Kefka without casting a spell or summon, let him throw the first stone. He let you win. would it then be in character of him to allow Nicol his use of magic? Perhaps, that’s the question that should be addressed.

  78. laharl October 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm -      #78

    “Many have ruled out Kefka without explaining exactly why he can’t control Nicol’s use of magic in this world with Kefka being… the source of magic in this world.”
    He isn’t much of a source of magic if he can be beaten in one turn.

  79. CIDE October 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm -      #79

    I think a lot of people just gave up because it was hard to really quantify the whole debate.

    We have a lot of trans-dimensional beings of great power in Final Fantasy. Chaos, Exdeath, Omega (which one? any one!), Unlimited’s, Gilgamesh (well, he jumps dimensions). Then we have the world level threats in Kefka and Kuja and others like that.

    The problem here is that a lot of them haven’t been quantified enough in order to gauge a proper debate over who would win. Chaos was elaborated on (and weakened) a bit more in Dissidia. Other than that though we’re pretty limited.

  80. laharl October 16, 2010 at 4:57 pm -      #80
  81. CIDE October 16, 2010 at 4:58 pm -      #81

    Kefka is really only a world level threat in comparison. Which is still very powerful.

  82. CIDE October 16, 2010 at 5:02 pm -      #82

    @Laharl:
    That video was epic. Best Rick Roll ever.

  83. laharl October 16, 2010 at 5:16 pm -      #83

    “That video was epic. Best Rick Roll ever.”
    I know I was just expecting the only the song, but it gave more than that.

  84. Darkbladex96 October 16, 2010 at 6:50 pm -      #84

    “Many have ruled out Kefka without explaining exactly why he can’t control Nicol’s use of magic in this world with Kefka being… the source of magic in this world.”

    keywords “this world”. that has been brought up a few times actually, but a planeswalker is anchored to different mana lines in different universes, so Kefka could keep nicol from FFverse magic for a little bit, but it wont stop him from drawing powers for all his other sources, or keep him for using his elder dragon powers.

  85. alphakilo47074 October 17, 2010 at 7:52 am -      #85

    Ahhhh, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. fuck yeah! He wins!

  86. Commander Cross October 17, 2010 at 10:11 am -      #86

    So i see that the stalemate between the D.C Universe and Magic The Gathering is still up, isn’t it?
    Intriguing, considering that M.T.G has people who may be at least just as intelligent as Batman is, out there.
    Now what about Warhammer 40K against Magic The Gathering?
    Do they have better odds of breaking a stalemate against Magic, for the better?

  87. Darkbladex96 October 17, 2010 at 11:04 am -      #87

    “Now what about Warhammer 40K against Magic The Gathering?”

    what would be really fair actually

    “Do they have better odds of breaking a stalemate against Magic, for the better?”

    there wouldnt be a stalemate if superman prime wasnt there…immune to magic, cant copy his powers and physically WAY stronger then anyone in MTG.

    “Intriguing, considering that M.T.G has people who may be at least just as intelligent as Batman is, out there.”

    to be honest, in any blue orientated place batman wouldnt be that smart, and in the plane of bant batman would be that smart plus hed be considered selfish for not sharing what little knowledge he had with the many citizens.

  88. Commander Cross October 17, 2010 at 11:47 am -      #88

    I take it as its a bad idea to pit Warhammer40K against Magic the Gathering, despite the scenario that Warhammer40K’s bulk got the better of Star Wars, and Halo, and it took something along the lines of Xenosaga just to even get the better of that universe.
    If so, then that’s not good.

    I’ll take it as Superman Prime must be to the D.C Universe what Achilles was to the Greek Invaders of Troy, if Achilles was put even more on mega-crack or giga-crack, right?

    Why would the plane of Bant consider Batman selfish for not sharing his knowledge with the many citizens again?
    Is it to reduce crime and terrorism in Gotham, or is it other reasons involved, mostly?

    Is there a Universe out there that CAN actually break a potential stalemate against Magic the Gathering?
    If there is, would DragonBall Z or Fist of the North Star be anywhere near that list?
    What about Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat?

  89. Darkbladex96 October 17, 2010 at 12:32 pm -      #89

    “Why would the plane of Bant consider Batman selfish for not sharing his knowledge with the many citizens again?”

    bant is an alliance of green, white and blue. growth, order and knowledge.

    “One can view White as a large clock tower composed of many cogs, which is structured rigidly to the point that there is no room for divergence or deviation, and on the outside looks striking, beautiful, strong, and glorious, attempting to make others want to come into its fold and under its wing. White seems to say “Look at us, we’re doing great in here, nothing could be better. Come join us, come be a part of this magnificence.” Inside, every cog is content with its job, because its job is no more important than any other cog’s job, and each cog is kept entertained by what it’s supposed to do. ”
    -MTGsalvation

    Batman would be selfish because he doesnt want to be a cog in a clock, and he keeps secrets.

    “I take it as its a bad idea to pit Warhammer40K against Magic the Gathering, despite the scenario that Warhammer40K’s bulk got the better of Star Wars, and Halo, and it took something along the lines of Xenosaga just to even get the better of that universe.”

    because Xenosaga has galaxy destroying weapons, and gods who destroy the universe….something WH40k lacks, therefore they got overwhelmed by firepower. MTG is a fair match because they have millions of creatures that are equal to or greater then leigons of space marines, and most of their weapons and vehicle. and via powerscaling humans as strong as these creatures. they have things that just cant be targeted or things that are literally indestrucible. Look at this cards art anf flavor text:

    www.magiccards.info/query?q=Novablast+wurm+&v=card&s=cname

    yes that is a star forming inside its coils.

    www.magiccards.info/query?q=obliterate&v=card&s=cname

    IMO the biggest threat would be the Nids.

    “Is there a Universe out there that CAN actually break a potential stalemate against Magic the Gathering?
    If there is, would DragonBall Z or Fist of the North Star be anywhere near that list?
    What about Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat?”

    DBZ, FotNS, SF, and MK arent on that list. Maybe star ocean, xenosaga, TTGL, Noien, Tenchi, Marvel, DC, Image….they could do something.

  90. CIDE October 17, 2010 at 4:23 pm -      #90

    The only reason there’s a stalemate with MTG and DC is the fact that people can’t see Prime getting beaten (even if he can be). Yes, immune to magical effects and dimensional erasure. He can be overwhelmed with enough force. And considering over in that thread there’s X number of universes all bearing down on one guy? Especially if they can completely cut him off from the sun? -shrug-

  91. Commander Cross October 18, 2010 at 12:30 am -      #91

    I thought that, Superman Prime notwithstanding, the other main reason is apparently that the D.C Universes have at least armies of Supermen out there to consider, with each new universe.

    Also, which one of us should post the universal war between Warhammer 40K and Magic the Gathering, to be sure?

  92. CIDE October 18, 2010 at 12:35 am -      #92

    I was wondering why all the multiverses were brought into the DC Vs MTG debate when Mutliverses were never brought up elsewhere. It just confused me. If it was because MTG has multiple universes then that’s silly; they aren’t duplicates of each other and each one is as big a part of the primary storyline as any other. Whereas DC any other universe is really just a side story because some writer wanted to do something that conflicted with Earth One’s history.

    Regardless, Only Prime had the immunity to magic and dimensional erasure. None of the other Supes would be able to withstand it or many of the other spells that get thrown around during that huge fight.

    I’m not sure who should post the MTG Vs 40k. I just know it should go up. It would be epic beyond epic.

  93. Commander Cross October 18, 2010 at 5:13 pm -      #93

    We should have a ranking system for epic match-ups, if you ask me. ^_^
    Clearly, Warhammer 40K and Magic the Gathering should get Platinums, but what about the golds, silvers, and bronzes?

    Where would the Potter-World vs Artemis Fowl fit in the general 4 rankings, for one thing?

    Also, what about in the Infinite Crisis Trilogy, in which each of the universes were just as vital?
    Or are you talking about in general outside the trilogy?

  94. CIDE October 18, 2010 at 5:16 pm -      #94

    Potter=shit brown ranking.

    In general outside of the trilogy. Of course that’s just my thoughts on the matter. Ultimately up to the admin. I don’t think the inclusion of the other universes helps DC at all in that particular match; I just think it gets too crazy with WAY too much speculation when you add in the multiverse for comics like DC or Marvel.

  95. Commander Cross October 18, 2010 at 5:21 pm -      #95

    I mean in a vs matchup of the Potter-World against Artemis Fowl.
    I’ll just take it as Bronze-ranking, then.

    For the sake of the giggles, i might contemplate on posting a match-up between Artemis Fowl’s worlds against the twilight universe(keyword on might) unless you feel that’s an even worse idea.

    But back on Magic the Gathering, its quite clear that unless the D.C multi-verse can somehow get more people like Superman Prime out there, the stalemate-breaking might not be in their favor for long, right?

    What about the Mortal Instruments vs. the Demonata series, and where among the 4 colors of metal i listed would it rank?

  96. CIDE October 18, 2010 at 5:29 pm -      #96

    In regards to HP VS AF I know. Just saying.

    I’m pretty sure Prime is the only THING like that. The only thing with magical immunity and immunity to a dimensional erasure. Which ultimately only leaves a handful of people left at the end of the fight for MTG to take on. Now that the following fight would’ve taken long.

    I’m not sure about MI VS Demonata.

  97. CIDE October 18, 2010 at 5:31 pm -      #97

    not that* instead of now.

  98. Commander Cross October 19, 2010 at 12:41 am -      #98

    Thanks for clearing that up, Cide.
    What about the Potter-World vs .Hack or the Camp Half-Blood meta-series(Introduced to us by Rick Riordan, which started with the Percy Jackson and the Olympians series!) against .hack in a universe battle?

    If D.C does not gather more powerhouses nearly as powerful as Prime is, the stalemate breaking will not be in their favor once the besieging is over, will it?

    Wasn’t Sepiroth’s Kingdom-Hearts-Self immune to magic, at least of the offensive kind?

  99. Commander Cross October 19, 2010 at 1:07 am -      #99

    What about the vs match-up between Harry James Potter(if he becomes an Auror, 3 years should the war with Voldy end and he survives) against Haseo in his Xth form, if we fuse both of their worlds to our realities?

    The only real handicap i could see Harry in need of would be some extra wands and coming with the sword of Gryffindor, but otherwise, seeing as how Haseo would be equipped with guns, it would be best if there’s no help, no portkeys, no chaos gates, and definitely no running whatsoever unless its to get the better of one another.

  100. CIDE October 19, 2010 at 4:56 am -      #100

    A lot of these battles I don’t know enough to really judge. One or both of the parties involved I just don’t know about.

    I’m unsure about Sephiroth’s immunity to magic and how canon that would be.

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.