Suggestd by DivineChoas88
Here we have Cloud Strife who is the main character of Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, going up against Squall Leonhart from Final Fantasy VIII, who is making he first apperance on the site.
From what I have read about both of these characters I would have to give this battle to Cloud. So….
Who wins?
UPDATE: (9.9.2010) – Cloud will be equipped with The First Tsurugi. Squall will have the Lionheart.
To make this more interesting there will be two battles one were items aren’t allowed to be used, and one which items can be used.
Actually, in both cases nolston and myself were off on math in the event Cloud W summoned KOTR. If Squall had somehow survived the first skirmish he would’ve fought them again immediately afterwards. The equivilent of fighting 26 knights.
just wondering if anyone has considered squalls limit breaks, im pretty sure one of them shot a giant as hell laser that reached space, and his first one cause some massive explosion after he goes into the air
@CPNJ
We know, but rough divide is basically the same as Cloud’s climhazzard, and not that hard to dodge. Blasting Zone would be stupid because not only does it have a long setup time thus leaving him vulnerable, he can only swing it downwards in which all you need to do is side step it. Fated Circle is the one your thinking of that sends a wave of fire at the enemies, useless because Cloud can jump half a mile into the air and avoid it or absorb it since it is elemental. Lionheart is actually the same as Omnislash, as Lionheart itself only hits 16 times, same as onmislash so they would go blow for blow. The only reason Lionheart has more hits than omnislash is because of Renzokuken, which he is not likely to get off. If they try omnislash vs Lionheart and Squall tries to start with renzokuken, he will have to charge for lionheart while Cloud has already charged omnislash.
The mechanics also changed for their blows too in a way that I think gives Cloud the advantage in the Lionheart V Omnislash battle. The multi-blade speedy gonzalez approach vs Squall swinging really fast 16 times in a row.
damnit i dont like cloud but he wins…. more character development tends to do that…..although squall is more badass
my favorite out of them all is Zidane.
Now it’s time for me to wait for the impending bash on me and monkey boy.
@ cyborg ninja ninja jesus
Squall has won half the battle (items), but dont worry then, Im still not done.
@everyone in this post
I am posting this to let you all know, I know the points Im going to post next, I just won’t have the proper time until at least Sunday. Don’t think I quit, just be prepared to wait til at least then.
@DivineChaos88
I’ll be waiting, though while I’m posting, I might as well add a few bits of information.
Even if by some grace of God Squall does manage to defeat 26 KOTR, Cloud can just use mime and do another W summon of KOTR for NO mp cost. So no matter how many times he beats KOTR, they will just keep coming back as a W summon until Squall is dead. I also believe that if Squall does defeat the first 26 KOTR, he will be extremely tired as he is only human, thus making him easier to kill.
I would also point out that Cloud will be fighting with the KOTR the entire time, and he could just use any of his limit breaks like meteorain, blade beam, finishing touch, etc.
Also, after looking at a few videos of FF8 i saw that Squalls sword fighting style is full of holes despite the fact he was trained. If you watch him attack somebody in FF8 he blindly rushes towards his enemy with his gunblade over his shoulder, so that he can do more damage. However, doing such a thing against another sword fighter would be unwise as having his weapon over his shoulder leaves his entire body open to being impaled.
Also, remember that Squall has fought only one other sword fighter, and that was Seifer who uses a gunblade as well. In terms of experience Cloud has the upper hand.
I’ll be waiting. And the same holes are present in the opening cutscene. To include an incredible lack of speed.
well if squall gets items, spamming hero’s and….(the one that always lets you use limits, would be quite the combination
Items just gives Cloud a much higher MP count thus solving the issue with KOTR. Regardless the lack of MP is a gameplay mechanic.
@CPNJ
You can’t spam hero’s, there is only one hero and one holy war which give Squall invincibility. What you are thinking of are aura stones, which give Squall the same affect as the aura spell and thus can be dispelled.
Also, for some weird reason there are two battles between Cloud and Squall, one with items and one without. I think it is stupid (and bias towards Squall) to have a battle with items as it just becomes a item battle and not about the characters abilities. I will take no part in a items battle.
@CIDE
While what you say is true, Squall’s two items that make him invincible are kind of hard to beat. Even with life2 + final attack, Cloud can only resurrect five times, unless you equip another final attack + life2, though I can’t remember if that actually works.
I already mentioned that the invincibility is purely a gameplay mechanic. Look at the stamina boost item from FFVII. It increases HP. Thus HP is a measurement of endurance in a real-time scenario and not damage taken. HP can be beaten down without you actually getting hit.
That said the item simply keeps Squall from getting tired and does not make him immune to Excalibur from Aurthur to the chest.
Plus in an item battle Cloud still has the advantage of using KOTR to keep Squall on the ropes and constantly restore his MP with elixers and ethers. He’s not limited to 5 times but instead several hundred times.
Hey DivineChaos88, it has been several weeks, if you are going to continue this debate could you please let us know? If you do not respond by saturday I’m going to nominate Cloud the victor.
On another note, I was thinking of asking for a Cloud(without his materia) vs Ragna the Bloodedge match.
I second that nomination whenever he gives it officially.
Well, since DivineChaos88 never responded I nominate Cloud Strife for the FP award.
Cloud for the FP.
….+1 Cloud for FP award.
Sounds to me like everyone here who’s in love with cloud just hasn’t bothered to give FFVIII a chance, and the fact that you all just lay KOTR down and think you would win with that is a joke. Omnislash doesn’t really have that much of an upside either as Squall has an almost exact same move, which hits the enemy the same amount of times within the same small time frame.
Squall has access to more GF’s (summoning cretures) in VIII than Cloud does in VII, an important factor I would think, considering they tower of the humans, also if we want to really get down to it, Squall could just shoot Cloud from a distance, he does have a gunblade and all. Ownership of this battle goes to Squall, Who smashes Cloud into just that….the clouds
No. Just…no. Your post fails in so many ways.
1: Your views on omnislash vs Lionheart. Yes, Omnislash 1.0 (FFVII) was comparable and exactly the same. Even Omnislash 4.0 (Seen in Advent Children Complete and it failed against Sephiroth) is exactly the same thing. Mechanically though Version 5.0 (the one that killed Sephiroth) is done in a way that Squall is unaccustomed too. Debatably fewer hits are done but it is still devastating as he attacks from all sides at a speed even Sephiroth couldn’t deal with.
2: Quality Vs Quantity in terms of GF’s and summons. Yeah, Squall has more. NONE of them compare aesthetically (as far as visual damage) nor statistically (gameplay wise) in damage to the top two summons from FFVII. Doesn’t matter if he can use more of them.
Looking at this we can reasonably assume that any given Knight in KOTR (knights of the round) could be somewhere around Bahamut’s level. It was already demonstrated too that even the entire team of FFVII had a hard time with Bahamut and all they could do was weaken it for Cloud to take it down. We’re looking at 13 of these knights attacking at once in unison with Cloud. Squall is NOT dealing with that.
3: Shooting Cloud from a distance wouldn’t work. He is not only a bullet timer but he’s been shown to be capable of fighting even after getting shot in the chest. Something that should’ve killed him or paralyzed him given that it was center chest.
4: You’re forgetting the fact too that it’s a SUPER SOLDIER against an angsty teenager in similar universes. Even with junctioning GF’s nothing ever demonstrated in FFVIII to have Squall anywhere near Cloud’s physical level.
@Mage Man
…..Sounds to me like somebody loves Squall to much to admit defeat.
Even if KOTR was the equivalent of Bahamut, THERE ARE STILL THIRTEEN OF THEM! This makes the battle fourteen against one, there is no way for Squall to win.
You name me one time where Squall has been shown to be able to block bullets and cut buildings in half like they were paper.
Also, Squall’s gunblade can’t fire bullets, He has only been shown to pull the trigger while slashing somebody.
Just adding for the hell of it
Apparently, the explanation behind the gunblade is that pulling the trigger doesn’t fire a projectile, but actually causes the sword to vibrate, turning it into a vibroweapon for a second or so, thus vastly increasing cutting power. I BELIEVE this is the explanation the game gives, but as I haven’t played it, I don’t know for sure.
Cloud for the FP award
I know this is a little late but, if you want to include the use of Summons/GF’s then I’ll have you know that Squall could just junction all the available GF’s in FF8 to himself, increases all of his stat abilities by allowing him to juction 100 magic to almost every stat of his. In my ff8 game, I junctioned Haste to my speed to make him super fast, and also gave him the auto haste ability along with HP UP and Strength Up. You can also Juction death to Status attack and have one hit KO’s.
I also Junctioned Pain to my luck and used the ability luck +20% and every battle Gilgamesh would come down from the sky to fight whomever I was fighting.
Junction Ultima to just about anything and it works wonders.
And Also, Squall would be able to summon all of his GF’s to battle too.
And hell, if you wanna include ALL Gf’s that are in FF8, Then Griever would definitely be a must-have. Considering he’s the strongest GF in the entire Game.
But all Squall would have to do is Summon Eden to defeat Cloud and his Summon. and if that didn’t work, One swing of a his gunblade with death junctioned to his status attack = Cloud pwned.
And if that didn’t work Squall, with his auto haste ability could cast Aura and use his lionheart limit break to destroy cloud.
And, oh yes, there are far more ways than one for Squall to defeat cloud. (Compliments to the GF’s junctioning ability)
Cloud could use the ability Kamikaze, to instantly defeat both. Ensuring that cloud doesn’t win.
Whoops!! “Squall** could use the ability Kamikaze, to instantly defeat both. Ensuring that cloud doesn’t win.” :p
And besides, if it were just Character abilities, no summons or items or any outside force, think about this: Cloud = Soldier enhanced with Jenova cells. Squall = Skilled swordsman of a very hard-to-use weapon as opposed to cloud’s simple greatsword preference. and He’s also a master tactician.
Squall > Time Manipulating demigoddess and immensly powerful sorceress, Ultimecia.
Cloud > An highly skilled katana-on-steroids Metahuman whom could summon a meteor to destroy a planet, Sephiroth.
Time controlling sorceress capable of destroying the universe > Metahuman warrior whom can destroy a planet or even a series of planets.
Squall is a more capable warrior.
He’s angsty and somewhat brooding, yes. But his intelligence and skill is far superior to Cloud’s emotional instability and simple great sword swinging capabilities.
P.S. Squall can release energy through the vibrating blade of his gunblade for more damage, especially with lionheart, which is practically a great sword and a gunblade. Squall is better in almost every way, especially when it comes to keeping his friends alive. Poor Zack.. :p
@Darxeth:
All of that was covered and debated as to whether or not it was gameplay mechanics and how it would work in this fight.
Next time could you read the entire debate prior to posting?
No. It wasn’t.
Next time could you read all that I’ve written instead of jumping to conclusions. :]
And I still stand by what I said, At least Squall can manage to keep his friends alive.
i think cloud would
win and he can keep his friends safe and just fine
Yep, I’m going with Cloud
Did Cloud won or what?
Well I’m a fan of both but, there can be only one, an squall is about to feel the quickining…
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Since I’m voting for Squall to win…well its not to late to point out Cloud is a cross dressing homo,..
media.animegalleries.net/albums/userpics/59787/Vincent,%20Cloud,%20and%20Sephiroth%20cross-dressing.jpg?=123
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whos arch enemy sephy is a sadistic retard that has mommie issues…
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limit breaks has been magnified having squalls stronger, more galacitical range an power…even if cloud lauched his meteros squall would just shoot them down with his Divine limit break, cloud has less whacks in his omni slash then even squalls whacks from his renozoken attack. Over all squall was a more rounded fighter, an by the looks of this pic …cloud aint coming back from being beheaded.
th07.deviantart.net/fs14/150/f/2007/025/7/6/Squall_vs_Cloud_by_Matelandia.jpg
Meh, Cloud for the FP Award
Cloud wins by a country mile.
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Lets face it Squall would just be crying the entire match. He’s a bigger whiny emo than Cloud was. But at least Cloud bucked up and kicked ass when it was needed.
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“well its not to late to point out Cloud is a cross dressing homo,..”
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He did it to save Tifa, very heroic. Whereas Squall, if he were in a similar situation would just sit in a corner and mope instead. Rinoa eventually being killed by the gangsters.
I seriously would have thought this debate would have been much longer than two pages before people gave up.
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I am a big fan of ff7, and I found ff8 to not only be boringly busted but also have the least likable main character out of any ff game I’ve played. That aside, I’ll try to look at this battle more objectively and leave my massive bias out of it.
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If we go by gameplay mechanics Squall takes this one easy. The gameplay in ff8 is busted and arguing in favor of Cloud in this manner seems to me to just be trying to make look like Cloud beats Squall because of bias. It’s just the way the games are set up. On of the reasons I could never bring myself to actually finish ff8.
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That said, if we go by cannon instead of gameplay Cloud seems to have a huge advantage. As said before Cloud is a Mako enhanced fighter shown to have incredible speed and strength. He is a bullet timer, which is always very difficult for non bullet timers to deal with. Squall is an elite warrior in his universe, but nothing outside of gameplay shows him to have anywhere near the strength or speed that Cloud has. Their magics are pretty much null and void because they are basically the same. Final Fantasy magic never really changes that much in strength, even if we were going to go with gameplay mechanics. So really if comes down to who is faster and stronger.
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If we go by gameplay I say Squall wins. The entire junction and draw system in ff8 is just too busted and makes the power curve too high.
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If we go by what we see in cut scenes and movies, I give it to Cloud. He has a huge advantage there because we have a lot more to go by, being as there are so many ff7 spinoffs, but he is shown to be super human in nearly every incarnation.
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But like I said, I am bias. So to even things out let’s here what Squall has to say for himself.
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Squall: ” . . .”
hmm… two of the most loved/hated characters in the series. id have to say cloud. he is the “get s*** done no matter what” kinda guy. thats why i favor him in so many battles, he refuses to give up. but still it would be close, given the traing squall has recieved and the power the gunblade can exert when fired. in the end it would be the super-human strength and speed of cloud that wins the match.
i vote cloud for the win. +1 FF7
@darxeth comment 126
in every battle against sephiroth cloud goes it alone. and besides, you said no items, non-character abilities, and no outside force. squall probably used all three in his battle. cloud didnt have to in his battles.
Squall definitely lacks the feats to fight cloud. But even In a straight up sword fight cloud has better feats so in reality this is a stomp