Suggested many times by many readers…
This is a battle that I knew had been coming for quite some time and couldn’t hold off anymore as I got soo many requests for this fight. Here we have Rand al’Thor from the Wheel of Time series up against Richard Rahl of the Sword of Truth/Legend of the Seeker universe.
For the battle we are using the book version of Rahl.
Rand has a power forged sword (unbreakable) and no power enhancing items. Richard has the Sword of Truth.
The battle takes place in the Aiel Waste.
Every reader of this site knows who I’m gonna take, what say you?
That was at the hands of Mr. Seahorse in here, who was too busy with the wankage to not get the match locked down.
If any match didn’t deserve getting locked down, but there were no better options but to mercy-kill it, this was it. T_T
“Except no-one buys your “proof”, which usually consists of taking quotes and extrapolating something from them that no sane person could extrapolate. ”
-that’s called your “opinion” that doesn’t agree with my “quote”. i have literally crosschecked every single quote i’ve used with other quotes to discredit the speculations put on them by others. it’s supposed to be a fool proof method of proving things, but i guess it isn’t factpile fool proof.
-
-
-
“I never said that you SAY everything you say is correct, it’s just that it’s obvious that you think that”
-yet you did say “you think that everything you say is correct” while i also just pointed out a few concessions on my part……yeah, your argument holds sooooo much weight.
-
-
-
“In every thread, when facts are brought up against you, your fanboyish wank dismisses them. ”
-i have never dismissed anything that was shown to be fact.
-
-
-
“You… cannot be this retarded… I’m shocked…
There’s no way that any human beings can say “activate the time dilation device” in 2 seconds, unless it’s said completely incoherently. I’m curious, what’s your proof (as if you have any). Don’t tell me that you timed yourself saying it… ”
-do it yourself then dumbass, it only takes about a second to say “activate time dilation” and that gives the person a whole second to acknowledge the order and hit a button that’s at their station right in front of them. YOU sir are the idiot for thinking your disbelief fallacy is a legitimate counter to this.
-
-
-
“I just mentioned the Xeelee vs Stargate thread. So I mentioned details before your post. So you’re wrong and retarded, as usual.
As far as more details, there’s the WoT vs SoT thread, which became a 5000 comment clusterfuck because of your wank.”
-the xeelee vs SG thread has in no way shown any of the sg points to be invalid.
-the wot vs sot became that way because of wot wankers and trolls and the mob that follows them not being able to understand the simple concept of what constitutes proving something and how inserting your own speculation does not constitute as putting doubt to whether or not my point is not proven fact and is then speculation.
-
-
-
“This thread was done a very long time ago. Nearly everyone agrees that Rand wins, and this has been proven with numerous quotes and facts. It’s 11-1 or something like that in Rand’s favor, and we’ve been waiting for a Factpile Award for months.”
-actually if you knew anything about this thread, there are no quotes nor facts that point to rand winning. there are quotes and facts, but none of them show rand being better than richard in his quotes and facts. there literally is no reason for anyone to think rand wins this other than their opinion, which is a fallacy. seriously, there has been nothing but opinion in a long time other than the lightning bullshit that cannot be proven.
-
-
-seriously cross, your typing is so unintelligible i can’t tell if you just tried to insult me for being one of the dozens that wanted that thread shut down, but it kind of looks like it.
“-that’s called your “opinion” that doesn’t agree with my “quote”. i have literally crosschecked every single quote i’ve used with other quotes to discredit the speculations put on them by others. it’s supposed to be a fool proof method of proving things, but i guess it isn’t factpile fool proof.”
-
No Mike, you use quotes and then extrapolate crazy shit from them. Almost nothing you say is actually proven. But keep talking, all that you’re proving is that you are a toxic genius.
-
“-yet you did say “you think that everything you say is correct” while i also just pointed out a few concessions on my part……yeah, your argument holds sooooo much weight.”
-
That’s like saying Jeffrey Dahmer wasn’t a serial killer because he didn’t kill every little boy he came across. On the WHOLE, nothing we say can change your mind. You have made minor concessions at best, and have not admitted that you were wrong in cases that you clearly were.
-
“-do it yourself then dumbass, it only takes about a second to say “activate time dilation” and that gives the person a whole second to acknowledge the order and hit a button that’s at their station right in front of them. YOU sir are the idiot for thinking your disbelief fallacy is a legitimate counter to this.”
-
Holy shit… you are that retarded…
Did you get a lobotomy when you were younger? Are you seriously saying that you timed yourself saying “activate the time dilation device”, and used that as proof? That’s hilarious. That just made my fucking day. Just because YOU can say the aforementioned phrase quickly (I doubt that you can say it coherently), does NOT mean that it would:
1) Be the first course of action.
2) Mean that the Captain says it that quickly.
3) And it certainly doesn’t mean that people would react that quickly to him saying it.
-
“-the xeelee vs SG thread has in no way shown any of the sg points to be invalid.
-the wot vs sot became that way because of wot wankers and trolls and the mob that follows them not being able to understand the simple concept of what constitutes proving something and how inserting your own speculation does not constitute as putting doubt to whether or not my point is not proven fact and is then speculation.”
No, the WoT vs SoT and Xeelee vs Stargate threads were resolved, until you came in with your denial of reality and wanked your favorite characters to Oblivion.
-
“-actually if you knew anything about this thread, there are no quotes nor facts that point to rand winning. there are quotes and facts, but none of them show rand being better than richard in his quotes and facts. there literally is no reason for anyone to think rand wins this other than their opinion, which is a fallacy. seriously, there has been nothing but opinion in a long time other than the lightning bullshit that cannot be proven.”
-
The lightning quote has been proven, there are numerous quotes supporting Rand, etc. The lightning feat is FAR above anything Richard has done.
-
“-seriously cross, your typing is so unintelligible i can’t tell if you just tried to insult me for being one of the dozens that wanted that thread shut down, but it kind of looks like it.”
-
It’s ironic that you insult Cross for unintelligible typing.
”-that’s called your “opinion” that doesn’t agree with my “quote”. i have literally crosschecked every single quote i’ve used with other quotes to discredit the speculations put on them by others. it’s supposed to be a fool proof method of proving things, but i guess it isn’t factpile fool proof.”
.
You actually “cross-check” quotes by going into it with the assumption that your interpretation is already correct. YOU thinking that you have the only way to interpret the quotes “as pure fact” and everyone else “cross-checks” those same quotes in an entirely different manner “as speculation” is idiotic Mike. Completely. Fucking. Idiotic.
.
But let’s NOT stop there, as is your favorite tactic, by claiming something as factual (ie I have proven something a long time ago, you guys can’t get my proof because you speculate, blah, blah, blah), and then providing no evidentiary support, for said baseless claim.
.
Kahlan beat Richard in a mock sword fight, which Richard stated he legitimately lost for whatever reason. This means that Richard can be fallible in a sword fight DESPITE all the ridiculousness that you claim to the contrary. YOU then claim PIS and Kahlan was trained by him so it doesn’t count, and this also essentially means that she is better than anyone else in WoT? And that isn’t an opinionated stance by you? IT’S, ABSOLUTELY, A PROVEN FACTUAL STATEMENT? YOU are a complete dumbass if you continue that nonsensical line of logic and expect ANYONE here side with you and believe that you are stating proven “facts”
” from static electricity being felt on the skin to raising hair, or metal hissing”
-
Those all happen minutes before a lightning strike. It does not take that long to summon a lightning strike in WoT. Ergo, the One Power is used to accelerate the lightning-making process. On top of that, I ask you to prove that Rand felt it, when the books make sure to tell you whenever Rand feels something.
-
“welcome to factpile, where “chance” matters not.”
-
Considering we’re dealing with a ta’veren, chance does matter. Also, you have to admit that chance does have an effect on fights, it just doesn’t normally have a large effect
-
“lmao, mooks huh? prove it. if you are going to be that finicky about what regular soldiers can do in fictional works, you’d have to literally ask the author for a comparison to real life. ”
-
If someone can casually waltz through a group of 50 soldiers who are not retarded, then the soldiers are mooks. That’s practically the definition of “mook”. My point is that they can both go toe-to-toe with masters.
-
“-do i really have to describe what “skills” means? if so, just walk away.”
-
Considering you differentiated it from “feats”, please do describe it.
-
“-he saw it, and couldn’t even react in time to cut a girl’s throat when he had the knife up to it ”
-
The man hesitated. It’s not like he was drawing across the throat and did it slower than Richard.
-
“also, i’ve already shown he can move his arms at bullet timing speeds if you had forgotten.”
-
I have forgotten. Remind me.
-
“-…..(whisper)….thats an association fallacy, richard isn’t a myrdrral, he’s much much better.”
-
I’m saying how Richard’s strength advantage won’t be much of a factor, if any. Richard is peak human or slightly above, while a Myrdraal can break steel chains.
-
“rand wins NO sword fights.”
-
Rand is close to Richard, and out of 50 fights, the odds will pay off in his favor at least once of them.
@Mike
I wasn’t trying to offend you, I meant to point out that if the Inglishman had any last chances with that match, he pretty much blew it and destroyed it and whatever else you could imagine doing that resulted in him not living up to it, frankly!
(comes back to look around after a few days of being quite sick)
-
….+1 for Rand.
“-you realize that you are making the positive claim right? and that i have already put doubt into it by way of a natural way they sense magic which would give him foreknowledge. you have no case here.”
-
The claim that is being made is that Rand reacted to lightning. There are two quotes showing this, that is our evidence. You are making the claim that he felt it before the lightning strike, or that it wasn’t actual lightning. That is the claim you have the burden of proof for.
“The claim that is being made is that Rand reacted to lightning. There are two quotes showing this, that is our evidence. You are making the claim that he felt it before the lightning strike, or that it wasn’t actual lightning. That is the claim you have the burden of proof for.”
-even what you quoted from me counters this statement.
“-even what you quoted from me counters this statement.”
-
The Burden of Proof lies with the positive claim. The positive claim is the claim that suggests something exists or something is a particular way. Our claim was “Rand has lightning-speed reactions”. At that point, we had the Burden, and we relieved that Burden by providing proof of his lightning-fast reactions. You now want to refute us. You are saying “Rand felt the channeling before the lightning struck”. You have to prove that Rand felt something, as that is the Positive Claim.
@Mike
I want to explore this concept of yours where “chance does not matter”. It is true that in any one fight, we would probably say that Richard could out sword-fight Rand. However, this raises the question of why even have fights “out of 100″. As far as I can tell, this 100-fight rule was put into place to account for chance. Slight variations could allow the underdog to win in a battle once in a while, but the overall outcome is decided based on the majority of wins. This does not mean, though, that chance is utterly ignored.
-
Incorporating chance into the fight means it is completely unrealistic to assume Richard wins every single one of the 50 sword fights. Richard is in an unfamiliar, harsh environment against a master who has hundreds of years of experience. Richard has also shown he is not infallible and can make mistakes against lesser opponents. If you are telling me to throw all chance out the window and say that Rand does not win AT LEAST one sword fight, then you are being completely unrealistic.
“I’m saying how Richard’s strength advantage won’t be much of a factor, if any. Richard is peak human or slightly above, while a Myrdraal can break steel chains.”
didnt a myrdraal lift an armoured soldier of the ground casualy at one point? i might be thinking of something else though.
“didnt a myrdraal lift an armoured soldier of the ground casualy at one point?”
-
It would certainly be realistic, but I don’t know for sure. I was referring to the time Padan Fain “estimated how much chain was needed to hold the Myrdraal, then doubled it.” He then says something like “If he had had one less link, the chain would have snapped”.
-
“i might be thinking of something else though.”
-
Maybe you’re thinking of the gholam?
“didnt a myrdraal lift an armoured soldier of the ground casualy at one point? i might be thinking of something else though.”
-
I don’t doubt it. A Fade almost broke a double lenght of iron chain.
““i might be thinking of something else though.”
-
Maybe you’re thinking of the gholam?”
im pretty sure its a myrdraal
-
if any one is intrested for fun can post the wot roleplaying game stats for a myrdraal
“if any one is intrested for fun can post the wot roleplaying game stats for a myrdraal”
-
Mydraals have 18 strength and 20 dexterity.
“Mydraals have 18 strength and 20 dexterity.”
yeah
18 constitution
15 inteligence
14 wisdom
16 charisma
-
9D8+36 hit points
-
22 AC/defence(+6 dex+2 natural+4 black plate)
-
speed-40ft
-
How didn’t I see this fight until now? :0
-
@Aelfinn
Of course theres the CERTAINY that either man could win by chance or luck. As great as Richard is, he can’t win EVER fight. Is that what you mean? Because I agree with that.
-
@Aelfinn (again)
“Richard is in an unfamiliar, harsh environment against a master who has hundreds of years of experience”
This is completely false. The Sword of Truth gives him the knowledge of ALL the past Seekers, so it is a raged filled wizard Seeker with centuries of experince through the SoT, against a master who has hundreds of years of experince.
-
May I also point out while Richard was still learning how to use the SoT, he beat thirty blademasters as they surronded him. Not soldiers, masters.
-
Rand is also a master but I understand hes had centuries of experince. But, in the end, I’m siding with Richard.
“Rand is also a master but I understand hes had centuries of experince. But, in the end, I’m siding with Richard.”
-
Our argument is that Rand will absolutely curbstomp Richard in every magic fight, and can win at least a few sword fights, due to vastly superior reactions.
This match is back to the Top 10?
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry:
“This match is back to the Top 10?
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry:”
-
Glorious.
“Our argument is that Rand will absolutely curbstomp Richard in every magic fight, and can win at least a few sword fights, due to vastly superior reactinons”.
Don’t know if you noticed but thats exactly what I said
-
Also, you said few of the sword fights, but not the majority, which we seem to be aiming for now.
“Also, you said few of the sword fights, but not the majority, which we seem to be aiming for now.”
-
Rand will win every magic fight due to Balefire and vastly superior reactions. He will win at least a few sword fights. Thus, he will win a majority of the fights, and is the winner of this battle.
Ah, but the same could be said for Richard. As Richard could win at least a few magic fights, due to chance and luck, and the majoritiy of the sword fights.
-
This could also be Richard’s victory or a draw.
-
So heres my idea, split the fight into two. Magic and Swordfighting. Like?
“Ah, but the same could be said for Richard. As Richard could win at least a few magic fights, due to chance and luck, and the majoritiy of the sword fights.”
-
Rand will win every magic fight assuredly, because of his lightning-time reactions, which are far above what Richard has done, and Balefire. Even if Richard somehow manages to kill Rand, as long as Rand casted Balefire, everything that Richard did would be undone, and Rand would still be alive.
-
“So heres my idea, split the fight into two. Magic and Swordfighting. Like?”
-
That’s already what we did.
Oh…..feel like some tool
Never heard of Balefire or Rand Al’Thor before this match. But yeah, I suppose Rand would win the majority of the fights.
“Ah, but the same could be said for Richard. As Richard could win at least a few magic fights, due to chance and luck, and the majoritiy of the sword fights.”
-
No, it can’t. Balefire is such a spell that Richard would lose every single magic fight he had against Rand. Rand has far better reactions, so even if it was a who attacks first thing Rand would still win.
Yeah, I already got that.
@The Knower
If I can ask, do you think Eragon vs Skulduggery Pleasant would be a fairer fight than this match, overall?
Depends. Skulduggery could just blow a hole in his head or Eragon could get Sapphire to shallow Skluduggery in one bite. Also, Eragon can just use Brisingr to chop his head off.
-
Then again, if it was just magic, and no Sapphire, then yeah, it would be fairer enough.
-
I think the reason this match isn’t fair is because of the Balefire, I mean, how can you defeat a guy who can reverse everything you done?
@The Knower
You up for planning out a vs match for Skulduggery to fight either Kratos or Eragon, then?
Sending in a powerful trio to fight Rand or being more FTL than Thor’s Marvel!-verse avatars are?
The fact that Rahl is doing neither is in his downfall in here.
Yeah Im up for the planning. It should be Skulduggery, Eragon and Sapphire verus Rand. I like that idea.
@Knower
Actually I had Luke Skywalker, Negi Springfield + Harry Dresden vs Rand al’Thor in mind while Skulduggery vs either Eragon or Kratos happens.
Or else Skulduggery + Kratos verus Luke Skywalker and Eragon?
-
And I think a good match for Rand al’thor would be against Zedd(sword of truth) +Harry Dresden and maybe Artemis Fowl.
@Knower
You do realize that on Skywalker’s case depends heavily on which side of the E.U we’re gonna be using(between Pre-Endor and Post-Endor) and the respective stages for either side for that matter, right?
We go with Post-Endor, we gonna be using During or Post-NJO onward, or we gonna be gunning more for the Pre-NJO incarnations?
Artemis Fowl is sharp-witted and with aid from Johnny Marcone(an ally of Harry Dresden) and with the backing of Dexter from Dexter’s Laboratory might be able to make Thrawn sweat, but beating Rand in direct combat is not his forte since he’s better-suited for Mission Control!
“should be Skulduggery, Eragon and Sapphire verus Rand”
rand already stomped eragon on this site
If we’re really doing this again, +1 for the Dragon Reborn.
-
As for all these other proposed fights vs Rand, while I only know a few of the proposed combatants, they’re in for a tough fight. Rand has demonstrated that he can Balefire an entire castle, and is otherwise capable of huge blasts of magic covering miles. I hope they’re up to the challenge.
-
@The Knower
Seeing as you’ve never previously heard of Rand or Balefire, have you read through the thread to see why we’re saying Balefire is so unstoppable, or are you just taking our word for it? We can explain it, if you haven’t.
@fallstar thief
Rand didn’t stomp all three of them together, did he?
@Zazax
I’ll take your word for it. Isn’t that hard to understand. It’s just if he casts it on, say me, then if I stop him that will be reversed. Right?
“Rand didn’t stomp all three of them together, did he?”
adding saphira(low tier dragon) and Skulduggery wont change anything
Yes it could. Skulduggery and Sapphire could shower him in bullets and a wave of flames while Eragon sneaks from behind and slips Brisingr through his shoulder blades.
@Zazax
Krazy has good reason to suspect Negi might, but whether or not the other two people I listed above are at least on Negi Springfield’s current levels or above or not is yet to be seen.(Remember, Skywalker if he only has access to Movie!-only feats at least in Episodes 04-05 may be a decent enough fighter in his own right but he’d be nothing that Kiritsugu couldn’t deal with in a ‘direct’ deathmatch, but if Skywalker had access to all the E.U eras he was in, that would be a whole other ballgame right there, for instance!)
Meantime, did I not grant my vote for Rand’s victory here?
@NKB
TBT, I’d rather Skulduggery were squaring off against either Haseo, Harry Dresden or Kiritsugu Emiya, or the former 2 tag-teamed to fight both Skulduggery + Kiritsugu, in fact!
“Yes it could. Skulduggery and Sapphire could shower him in bullets and a wave of flames while Eragon sneaks from behind and slips Brisingr through his shoulder blades”
none of thats getting through rands shields
and they have to worry about 30+ aoe spells being cast incredibly fast at once and balefire
@Knower
Need this match to confirm what NKB means by this?
The above-mentioned post is only a taste of what the Dragon Reborn may unleash, actually, I’d know via 2ndhand experience that its a terrifying experience to fight WoT channelers.
Wasn’t Skullduggery supposed to be facing Sephiroth though?
ishamael/moridin from wot
dreamworlds.ru/uploads/posts/2010-08/thumbs/1283267884_rsrrrsrs.jpg
vs
sephiroth
media.animevice.com/uploads/2/24204/433057-19052_349242_195481_sephiroth_super_1__super.jpg
He is, he’s still to be considered if The Knower also wants in!
“I’ll take your word for it. Isn’t that hard to understand. It’s just if he casts it on, say me, then if I stop him that will be reversed. Right?”
essentially, yes. Balefire erases whatever it touches from existence, but back in time (how far back in time depends on how strong the Balefire is). There’s an example in one of the boks where Rand watches some of his friends get killed by lightning fired by one of the Forsaken, Rahvin. When, a short time later, Rand kills Rahvin with Balefire, he eventually stumbles upon his previously-dead friends, now alive and well, since Rand had erased Rahvin back in time, and he had never been able to kill his friends in the first place.
-
@Commander Cross
Yeah, Skywalker and Rand are the only ones there I know about, and while I know how powerful EU Luke is, I’m not sure he has the speed to keep up with Rand (or to deal with him before he gets off a blast of Balefire and just undoes everything).
As for the others, I’ve only heard of them in passing around the Pile. I have no idea what level they’re on in respect to Rand, unfortunately.
@Zazax
That’s what Negi Springfield is for, actually.
@fallstar thief
Moridin probably stomps Sephiroth. Sephy is fast, but lightning-fast? I don’t think so. Moridin is on Rand’s level.
-
@The Knower
If you haven’t heard of the Wheel of Time, it’s a pretty good read. The magic users in it (channelers) are pretty tough to find a fight, though. They can blow up people with a thought, and they can repeatedly send these kinds of attacks out.
The thing withe Negi vs Rand is that is balefire really is instantaneous, then Negi loses. But, if Balefire is just really fast then Negi probably will stomp. Balefire is that only thing that Rand has to use against Negi when Negi is in RT II, but in RT II Negi can move at over 2k km/s.
“Moridin probably stomps Sephiroth. Sephy is fast, but lightning-fast? I don’t think so. Moridin is on Rand’s level.”
-
But- but- Sephiroth has the meteor :zaru
“in RT II Negi can move at over 2k km/s.”
-
But what will he do to Rand? Rand’s lightning-reactions ensure he can at least raise his shields, which are immune to outside force. It’s a tricky debate.
“Moridin probably stomps Sephiroth. Sephy is fast, but lightning-fast? I don’t think so. Moridin is on Rand’s level”
he does have teleportation
he is vastly supirior to zack who was calced to be between mach2-6
@Krazy*awesome*Crismore
Trust me, as long as Skywalker(if Post-Endor E.U’s permitted) and Dresden know what they’re doing, they may be able to take on Rand, otherwise initial bets go to Skywalker being the 1st to die if they mess up, frankly.
Also, the One-winged Angel gets cut off from his magic before he can even blink, enough said!
“he is vastly supirior to zack who was calced to be between mach2-6″
-
Sephiroth is Mach 26 :maybe
So rand is Mach 174?
Or is the One-Winged Angel?
Rand can definitely find a way to kill Pyramid Head, who deadlocked Sauron, I’ll admit as much mainly via Balefire!
Negi’s strongest type of magic, Magia Erebea, is an absorbtion type. He absorbs a powerful lightning spell to go into Raiten Taisou, he does a second layer for RT II. He also has delayed spell, which allows him to cast a spell then delay it for instant use later. He has shown to use Magia Erebea in combat to draw out a massive symbol, using his lightning speed, to absorb an attack then use it against the original person that used the attack. He has been shown to tank attacks that destroy mountains even before he became MSN’s version of a vampire, which grants him near instantaneous regen. Basically he is a lightning speed character with near instant regen that tanks mountain busting attacks and can dish out the same level of attacks, with absorbtion magic.
“So rand is Mach 174?”
-
If that’s lightning-speed, then yes, but only in his reaction times.
-
“Basically he is a lightning speed character with near instant regen that tanks mountain busting attacks and can dish out the same level of attacks, with absorbtion magic.”
-
Hmmm. Seems pretty L33T. Balefire would do it, obviously, but what would happen to Negi if Rand went meat-grinder on him?
@Councilor Aelfinn
How does Rand go Meat-grinder on someone, again?
Its been a while since I recalled much about the Dragon Reborn.
Since its at least a 3-vs-1 fight, good thing Skywalker and Dresden might have Negi’s back, right?
“If that’s lightning-speed, then yes, but only in his reaction times.”
===
That’s low end lightning which is 60,000km/s. negi is Mach 6600. Which still pales in comparison to Dante/ with alastor and using quicksilver which makes him Mach 420,000
“Hmmm. Seems pretty L33T. Balefire would do it, obviously, but what would happen to Negi if Rand went meat-grinder on him?”
-
Raiten Taisou II is constant lightningb form for Negi. The is like trying to put lightning through a meat-grinder.
@Krazy*awesome*Crismore
Can Lightning normally be tossed into a meat-grinder?
If that were the case, why didn’t they try that with God Enel?
Skulduggery verus Grubbs Grady, (demonata), would be a seemly fair and interesting fight.
@Aelfinn,
Yeah i might give Wheel of Time a go at reading. I like the Sword of Truth series alot, so when Richard is faced against a WoT opponent, I automatically side with him. But you really need to know both fighters before picking sides.
-
Oh my god, I just thought of a good fight for Skulduggery. Saurman from Lord of the rings.
Complete canon arguments:
-
-If A Memory of Light was due in the next month there’d be merit in Mike’s request to wait, in my opinion. However, this debate has taken long enough, so we play it as it lies. Sorry, Mike.
*
*
Casting speed/time arguments:
-
-Regarding the lighting-speed reaction times, channeler reaction time increases with the amount of saidin/saidar held as well as the maximum capacity of the channeler (cit.).
The balefire vs sub.magic blast quick-draw argument has insufficient merit because of this. It’s not surprising that the force that drives the Wheel of Time would cause this effect in those channeling it. Inasmuch as WoT can find explanation in physics for its phenomena, it is also a metaphysical/magical world. Deal with it and move on.
*
*
Site meta:
-
-On a bit of a site note, I like how this site is seeing an increase in debating skill from new and returning users. Thanks ptaine et al and good luck DReager1.
-On another note, the ad hominem attacks are increasing as well. Trolling people like Mike when they make bizzare or nonsensical arguments helps no-one except your ego. Maybe some mod muscle should be flexed every once in a while.
-Logging into this site is (for me) a ridiculous roundabout process. Why can I not see a login button/link on the homepage? Or am I communcating from a parallel universe where the site is shit?
*
*
Ta’veren:
-To anyone still attempting to use ta’veren as an argument in this matchup, it is unquantifiable and therefore unusable and also violates FP rules.
*
*
The sword fight:
The sword Rand will be using is simply Power-forged- not even like Perrin’s Mjollnir/Mah’alleinir that seems to respond to his will and emotions. Simply a sword hardened to not break. Use the logic of FP for a fair fight, because this point needs no argument.
*
*
I’ll continue to review this thread, it seems to be coming together at last.
@The Knower
Grubbs Grady’s descriptions sounds almost akin to Sir Marrok of the Round Table if Marrok were a Magic Knight like Sir Gwydion, really.
What more can you want from that?
Well, barring Grubbs piloting a giant robot from either Mobile Suit Gundam or Code Geass, but this is pushing it, I’m aware!
Knower, mind checking this thread out since I am trying to get help to make sure the match works?
Back to matter at hand:
This is gonna take even longer than ever, isn’t it? T_T
“To anyone still attempting to use ta’veren as an argument in this matchup, it is unquantifiable and therefore unusable”
-
While I agree with most of your post, this part I disagree with. While it is true that it is impossible to say that a victory is guaranteed with this factor, it can NOT be disregarded. It is an aspect of Rand al’Thor, and it can not be ignored. Ta’veren-ness is not the whole case, but it is incorporated into it.
So you agree that trolling Mike is lame? O.o Interesting.
*
I’ll need to be convinced of the usefulness of Final Form Rand’s ta’veren nature in a neutral FactPile duel. Might even need a ruling from admin on it, seeing as it otherwise conflicts directly with the rules.
“-On another note, the ad hominem attacks are increasing as well. Trolling people like Mike when they make bizzare or nonsensical arguments helps no-one except your ego. ”
-
I only troll him because this match was decided ~2000 comments ago. It’s something like 12-1 in favor of Rand winning the Factpile award, and we’ve been waiting for one for a long time.
Still thats no need to troll him over. Its pretty childish, too.
-
@Commander Cross,
Clicking on the link.
So grubbs grady vs skulduggery? Yay or Nay?
@Commander Cross
Read the link. Would be a fairly interesting match.
@The Knower
I’m all for it if its taking place at a (mostly) fully-evac’d Diagon Alley, just state Zacharias Smith is the only dead bystander and it should be able to work!
Then again I might have a match with Grubbs Grady in mind but with a few allies against at least one of the Denarians from the Dresden Files, 1st to start things off!
At least with Grubbs Grady, the odds are good that a worthy opponent for Haseo is found, either wars of attrition or based on raw stats alone, I hope.
“I’ll need to be convinced of the usefulness of Final Form Rand’s ta’veren nature in a neutral FactPile duel.”
-
While I agree that it can not be said that “Rand wins this because of ta’veren-ness”, like I said before, it can’t be ignored. For example, suppose three chemicals are mixed together in an experiment. Two of the chemicals have known amounts, but the third chemical’s amount is not known. However, it is known that the third chemical speeds up the reaction of the other two chemicals. In the analysis of the experiment, the experimenters still have to take that unknown amount of the third chemical into account, even though they don’t know the exact amount.
All right, given such a scenario (and going by FP rules where a majority of fights need to be won for a win), ta’veren is simply a factor. All else being equal, this ‘third amount’ would make the difference.
*
I’d still like a ruling on it though, just to be safe. This site has never to my knowledge handled something like this before.
Karl Marx
Tomorrow’s Sunday. How many people voted in favor of Rand again?
@TBC
Think a number between 18-30, was it 25?
The Dragon Reborn for the FactPile Award.
(It’s Sunday by 20 minutes already in my timezone.)
www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476861&page=6
+1 for Rand bloody al’Thor.
@Blood Dancer
Give the Karl Marx a rest! >:O Christ! (I’m not Christian).
-
This match has been going on for too long. So Rand has 18-30 votes, how many does Richard have?
“how many does Richard have?”
1
+1 for Rand
-
Yet again
my vote remains for the dragon reborn
i think we should just keep the previous votes
Even though Mike will complain, I as well add my name to Rand al’Thor’s nomination for a FP Award. The way the fight would actually go (magic) is a clear win for Rand, and the enforced sword-fighting scenario has Rand winning one, if not a few, matches.
-
This fight needs to end. It is the one that started the WoT vs. SoT cross-Pile debate. Rand has to have his award.
“This fight needs to end”
-
Agreed
we need to find anotherserise we canpit wit charachters against in even fights
“anotherserise”
another seris
“canpite”
can pit
“wit”
wot
@NKB
Rand al’Thor vs Mephiston could work.
Or is it too much risking a stomp for either side?
This is a tricky matter if we are asking entire series involved, A Song of Fire and Ice doesn’t have enough faction!-based content for total war against any of the WoT factions going all-out in numbers, and ‘scouting parties’ for said WoT factions is questionable at best.
Not sure if Guilty Gear or BlazBlue would be fairer overall either.
We might need more content to find out if the Nasuverse might be viable, really.
As always, +1 for the Dragon Reborn.
Plus one for the Dragon.
.
@The Knower
.
You could be a buddhist, for all I care. Go back to reading The Fountainhead….I mean Faith of The Fallen…I can never tell with rip-offs
“>:O Christ! (I’m not Christian).”
-
What purpose does this serve?
@The Sorrow
.
I wonder that myself. I mean it’s not uncommon to see atheists and gnostics using expressions like “My God”. And Christ’s name also appears in Quran…25 times more than Muhammad’s. He and his mother greatly respected and he is reffered as the Revered Jesus (Hazrat Eesa).
I spoke with someone who studied the Quran, I never got the chance to ask much about Christ according to the Quran much even though I did get to learn more.
Turns out the Eastern Orthodox Priests were right.
It’s common for people to say it when they are frustrated, surprised, or amazed. I am not a religious person, but I say it regularly. It’s a way to express my emotions at a given time, it doesn’t really have any religious meaning to me anymore.
“It’s a way to express my emotions at a given time”
.
I meant to say that, albeit in a more elaborate way and also show that faith in Jesus is not restricted to one religion.
@Blood
Ah well I was just explaining why I say it. I know people who try and make an effort to not utter it, as if not saying it strengthens their non-religious resolve. A word doesn’t have meaning until you give it one, then things become complicated.
“A word doesn’t have meaning until you give it one, then things become complicated.”
.
Nothing could be closer to the through. I usually use a rather awkward expression that when translated into english goes like this: “a table is only a table because we understand as such”.
EDIT:
Truth instead of “through”
and there should be an “it” after “understand”