It’s been a while since Xena had a match on the ‘Pile so I figured it was time to trot out the old girl with her partner, Gabrielle to go up against Kahlan Amnell and Cara from the Legend of the Seeker/Sword of Truth franchise.
Here’s hoping that the match can have some intelligent discussion and not just flame wars to help justify a victory for Team Xena. While Xena has a chance against either Kahlan or Cara, Gabrielle would absolutely get destroyed by either one. So, for this battle all four are fighting each other with Cara starting against Gabrielle and Xena attacking Kahlan.
Who wins this brawl?
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haha, intelligent discussion… with Xena involved… thats funny…
I will side with team Truth and will be back later. Now, I have to study
A Mord Sith and the Mother Confessor vs……..Xena and her lover……………and when Admin himself says the “Gabrielle would absolutely destroyed [by?] either one” [of them]…..yeah, no real debate her….,
- pf
Gabrielle is a good fighter but she is no match for Cara. Cara is the most badass Mord-Sith and she has two agiels, she would beat Gabrielle quickly. Xena is much better and Kahlan would have a hard time defeating her. But together with Cara, they’d kick Xena’s ass.
I would say Kahlan and Cara would win, but i would have Kahlan fight Gabrielle first and have Kahlan confess Gabrielle, making it a 3v1 where Xena would get crushed.
… Yeah… not really much of a debate here.. Xena VS Cara & Kahlan.. Cara could distract Xena while Kahlan confesses her, or Cara could solo Xena.. or Kahlan could solo Xena.. she really doesn’t have much of a chance at all
This isn’t much of a match. Are we using SoT canon or LotS canon?
Kahlan and Cara would beat Xena & Gabrielle up and down the field of battle with both hands tied behind their backs without breaking a sweat.
Not much of a fight. Without Hercules, Xena doesn’t stand much of a chance against magical characters like this. Most likely, it results in Gabrielle quickly being taken down and then Kahlan and Cara double teaming on Xena.
I think we’ve already decided on other threads that Kahlan could beat Xena, but in this case, I think it would be smarter for Team Truth to have Cara attack Xena instead. As a Mord’sith (it pains my SoT oriented hand and brain to type out that atrocious LotS spelling debacle), she would be able to deflect the Chakram. Xena will most likely end up getting done in by her own weapon.
You are correct Ahem, it has been somewhat decided that Khalan beats Xena. Matter of fact that was the only debate where a Xenite actually debated instead of insulting us.
Xena and Gabrielle. Gabrielle would probably fall early in the battle (unless she’s at season 5/6 skill level) and seeing Gabrielle injured would inspire Xena to unleash her full fury on Kahlan and Cara. Of course, if Kahlan confessed the injured Gabrielle and ordered her to fight Xena, then Xena would permit herself to be killed by Gabrielle before she would ever hurt her (again) and then Kahlan could just order Gabrielle to kill herself. Then Kahlan and Cara could share a hot-tub to celebrate a job well done.
@AJ
was that last part really necessary? I mean, did it add anything to the match? I know i’ve said some stuff in other debates that do not add anything but that is just too much. Also, If we’re using SoT canon, Xena and Gabrielle are screwed beyond infinity
Ok so Xena would not need Hercules to fight a magical enemy, she managed to kick Ares’ arse even whilst crazy. I’m thinking Kahlan versus Gabrielle and they could battle it out with “the power of love”. As much as I like Cara I still think Xena would win, I’ve seen too many epic Xena battles to be convinced that either of them would stand a chance. How many gods or mythical creatures have the LoTS women battled? I say Xena takes out the Mother Confessor with her Chakram and then Xena and Gabrielle kick Cara’s leather clad arse. No contest.
@Morgaine
Let it be known that we’ve already had a Kahlan vs Xena match and that outcome has decided: The Mother Confessor wins and we didn’t use LoTS canon, we used the original source, the books. If we’re using SoT canon, Xena and Gabrielle are utterly screwed and for the love of whatever it is you believe in, do not mention “the power of love”. This is a trial of skill not sentiment.
@Blood Dancer I can’t speak for SoT unfortunately (soon, soon) and “the power of love” was meant as a joke, a reference to the many times it has been hailed as the ultimate power on both shows.
@Morgaine
Still, my point stands.
I’ve only watched the shows – don’t know much about SoT canon. Based on the shows, while part of me doesn’t want to concede it, Team Xena loses. Why? Because Gabrielle is no help at all, and I don’t think Xena can take Kahlan and Cara by herself. I do believe that Xena could beat TV Kahlan (note: not necessarily SoT Kahlan, which is who her first match up was against). I’m less sure she could take Cara. But frankly, if Xena fought Cara they would spar for three minutes before falling in love and realizing they’re meant for each other.
For the record, it was never established that Xena’s chakram ran on magical powers (implied, but not established), so we can’t be sure that Cara can deflect it the way she deflects the Sisters of the Dark’s weapons.
Here’s what I think would happen:
Kahlan and Xena square off and fight for awhile (while I do think Xena can take Kahlan in one-on-one fighting, it wouldn’t be right away), and during that time Cara “agiels” Gabrielle almost immediately (even sixth season Gabrielle). If the touch of an agiel is as painful as it’s supposed to be, Gabby wouldn’t be ready. She would probably faint.
After that, I think Xena would rush to Gabrielle’s aid and start fighting Cara. While fighting Cara, Kahlan would confessor her. I think Xena could probably take them both individually, but not together, and though I don’t think Kahlan could confess her one-on-one, I do think she could if Xena was fighting someone on Cara’s level. Honestly, I think TV Kahlan/Cara vs. Xena/Hercules is a better match up than TV Kahlan/Richard. (I wonder if Cara’s anti-magic affects Herc’s strength?)
Admin – is this SoT Kahlan/Cara or LotS? All the points I made pertain to LotS Cara/Kahlan. If it’s SoT, can’t Kahlan just convince herself that Xena wants to hurt Richard and immediately go into the Blood Rage? If so, she would confess them at will. That is an important angle, though – without Richard here, TV Kahlan would most likely not go into the Con Dar. But she doesn’t have to, because Gabby would be out in a hot minute.
“, if Xena fought Cara they would spar for three minutes before falling in love and realizing they’re meant for each other. ”
Dude, that’s just disgusting. What is it with you xenites and this inuendo? It’s really starting to piss me off.
What’s disgusting about it? Would it be disgusting if it were said about Kahlan and Richard? It’s a joke, you really need a sense of humour.
@Morgaine
Sense of humour? I lack that, I’ve been told before. However, it doesn’t change my stance.
I wasn’t attempting to change your stance, this debate contains more people than just you. I was pointing out that you sound like a homophobe and as such this is really the wrong debate for you.
@Morgaine
What the? You have to be joking! This is a trial of skill and strength. Not love, not sexuality,
if I sound like homophobe then be it, it’s your opinion.
This is/was a casual debate, which you seem to be hell bent on controlling. And as for “my opinion”, you’re a fine one to talk, through this whole debate you have done nothing but dictate yours.
Right, right… How so?
All, I’ve done in this debate is ask whether we’re using SoT or LoTS canon. No more, no less. And I did point out that if it is SoT, then it’s not much of a match. Other than that I tried to minimize those sad, inuendo-filled, remarks but apparently to no avail.
Tell you what, I’ll be the bigger man (better human). I’ll step back and see the outcome
Haha, thank you magnanimous one for letting the lowly fans indulge in a bit of casual humour.
What can I say? I aim to please
As I recall, Gabrielle trades her sticks for Sais and is a better fighter in the later seasons. But I’m going to side with the Kahlan/Cara pair.
I agree with Blood Dancer. If we use SOT canon, Xena and Gabrielle won’t last two minutes. But if we use LOTS canon, they might stand some chance, since Legend of the Seeker seemed so intent on making the characters weaker, slower, and dumber.
It’s not disgusting, and both characters are bisexual – Cara explicitly/graphically and Xena as implicitly as you can get. I think they would go for each other, that’s all I meant by that.
@Mazrim
Thank You. And yes, although i have just skimmed through the SoT books I did notice that LoTS made a mockery of the characters.
@Comet
I don’t care about they’re nature. As I have pointed before this IS a test of skill and strength and now I add intelligence. I really have no problem with them being bisexual or whatever.
The other reason is the same we use in the forums, this is a PG-13 site, minors come here.
On a last note, I am not a homophobe as that other person implied. The only phobia I have is Hemophobia (fear of blood).
“The other reason is the same we use in the forums, this is a PG-13 site, minors come here.”
Well… I didn’t write anything that was even remotely graphic or explicit, and even the hot-tub comment from another user is pretty tame. No offense intended, but if you think suggesting that two women might fall for each other/be into each other is inappropriate for minors, then I would invite you to reflect more on whether or not you’re homophobic. Were the comments irrelevant to the conversation? Maybe. But inappropriate for minors? Only if you think they should be shielded from homosexuality.
No need to reflect. I have gay (both women and men) acquanitances, they are quite nice to hang around and to talk to. I also have a cousin who’s gay and we get along just fine. And I find Sir Ian Mckellan to be an exceptional actor. If you don’t know he’s the guy who played Gandalf. Of course you don’t know me in RL and probably never will, so you might think I’m lying. Nothing I can do about that.
As for the comments that started this argument. They are irrelevant and don’t add jack to the debate. I myself have made irrelevant comments on fights in the past. Check the Kahlan vs Xena thread and you’ll find a list of people made by me that can wipe the floor with Xena. I made that just to prove a point to fanatics. I did the same in the Xena vs Aragorn thread and in the Eragon vs Drizzt thread.
This comment that I wrote just now is irrelevant as well since it doesn’t add to the discussion.
I don’t think you’re lying. But I would add that homophobia can be very subtle – it needn’t be obvious and explicit, or even conscious. Knowing and respecting some gay people doesn’t preclude someone from that. I am gay, and when someone says that suggesting that two women might fall for each other is unsuitable for minors and a PG-13 audience, I take offense to it. The only exception would be if they were equally offended if someone made a comment suggesting that a man and a woman might fall for each other. Very unlikely. Again – off topic? Sure. But offensive to minors? Well, it’s the plot of every Disney movie.
“don’t think you’re lying. But I would add that homophobia can be very subtle – it needn’t be obvious and explicit, or even conscious. Knowing and respecting some gay people doesn’t preclude someone from that. I am gay, and when someone says that suggesting that two women might fall for each other is unsuitable for minors and a PG-13 audience, I take offense to it. The only exception would be if they were equally offended if someone made a comment suggesting that a man and a woman might fall for each other. Very unlikely. Again – off topic? Sure. But offensive to minors? Well, it’s the plot of every Disney movie.”
ugggh… shoot me now….
@Comet
I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that being gay is wrong. Though I personally am not gay, I am struggling to defend the right to be homosexual in my religion. I don’t think Blood Dancer meant any offense to homosexuals in his comment, and I think this vendetta is getting a bit out of hand. So let’s focus on the debate, being Kahlan and Cara vs. Xena and Gabrielle, and forget this argument.
Dude… I don’t know what to say
@Mazrim
Are you muslim or christian?
I am a Christian, but I believe all religions are valid.
This is not a vendetta. I was just trying to clarify my point.
@Mazrim
I’m muslim but my mom’s catholic, so I learned to respect all religions. We also have the same struggles with homossexuality.
Ok, how did we get from “lets get back to the debate” to a discussion of the struggle to justify homosexuality in religion? For somebody who spends so much time whining about irrelevant comments in this debate that’s more than slightly hypocritical, not to mention offensive, you wonder why I think you’re homophobic blood dancer? Having an accomplice doesn’t make you any less so. @Mazrim It is not a vendetta to take offence to bigoted comments.
The only reason thsi debate was de-railed is because someone made that sad remark. I don’t care if it’s KahlanxRichard or CaraxKahlan or XenaxGabrielle, I just don’t. Remarks of that nature don’t have place in a debate, and don’t you dare say it was meant to soothe the mood. More importantly, I don’t have the time to defend myself from your irrational accusations (which begs the question, why I am i even writing this post?) and quite frankly I don’t need to. One last thing I have acquaitances not accomplices. Get a dictionary.
On topic. Let’s go with the Higher Canon here (SoT). Kahlan and Cara win. Kahlan just goes into blood rage and confesses both Xena and her sidekick
I insist that Morgaine detail more of that disgusting Car v Kahlan hot-tub action so I can work out how fascin… er, repelled that I am!
I was going to say something but I have a geography final to study for, so I won’t bother…
Dear Jim, haha, I really don’t think I need to detail it, I’m feel you’ve probably spent enough time ruminating over the possibilities.
Dear Blood Dancer, I find it highly amusing that you have the time to rant about how you don’t have time to rant and to point out that you’re above posting in each post. As for dictionary perhaps you should learn how to spell before you get pedantic about my use of the language. Mood? I don’t dare claim to soothe any moods because I don’t know to which mood you are referring. And finally, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, lighten the frell up.
Yours sincerely
Morgaine
P.S Xena would find a way, Xena always finds a way.
dude, Morgaine…
Now you turn to speculation, as in Xena finds a way. This is why no-one takes Xenites seriously in this site. You bring forth arguments like power of love, Xena wins because she knows martial arts, Xena wins because she’s not a damsel in distress, Xena wins because she fought her daughter and won…damn, get your acts together and bring forth veritable arguments.
And I will say it again, if this is SoT than Kahlan will most likely confess them at will should she find Xena a threat to Richard Rahl.
@Blood Dancer. Where to start, “The Power of Love” has been hailed as the ultimate power in both TV series, in fact I believe the LoTS series finale saw Kahlan’s “Power of Love” seal the rift to the underworld by bringing about another stone of tears. Zed has explained on more than one occasion that Kahlan’s power stems from love. So on, so forth. The initial comment I made was a dismissive joke referencing both TV series’ obsessions with “The Power of Love” which, again, has been taken far too seriously.
“Xena always finds a way” is a perfectly valid comment if you have actually seen the show, Xena battled Gods, Demi Gods, Mythical Creatures and entire armies and she always found a way, that was the whole point.
I am going with the LoTS version of the characters because Xena has no source material from which to argue and to argue book verse TV show seems silly, especially when both shows are produced by Sam Raimi.
I will not speak for or defend the arguments of other Xenites, none of the characters in this fight are damsels in distress so I can’t really see how that argument would have any bearing on this fight.
Show me an episode where Kahlan Amnell or Cara single-handedly defeated an army through sheer cunning, guile and skill. Show me an episode where either of the LoTS women fought, and bested, a god. Show me these things and I might consider that the LoTS women have a chance.
And as for “veritable arguments” where are yours? You have not referenced a single episode example to back up your claims, only made vague references to the abilities of the characters in the books.
If you’ll notice, the photos at the top are of the TV series Cara and Kahlan and in the case of Xena/Herc verse Richard/Kahlan the TV versions of the characters were chosen by the admin, not SoT.
@Morgaine
I have no brought any veritable argument. true I have not. I will not lie. However, those pictures mean jack just as much as the stars next to my name. We used SoT Kahlan in her match against Xena and the picture was from…LotS. We used SoT Richard Rahl in his matches against Kuchiki Byakuya, Cloud Strife, Drizzt Du’Orden and Vin and the picture was from…. LotS. So you fail…
Besides the books are the Higher Canon here, But if you want to use LotS as canon ,fine. Xena wins this if only because of what Mazrim said in post 28. I stopped watching the show anyways. It bored me
Right so you prove yourself a hypocrite, your constant whining that Xenites don’t use evidence and now an admission that you have not even attempted to back up any of your claims.
Interesting, I’ve been through a couple of these matches and nowhere that I could find was it actually decided that SoT would be the official guidelines by which to argue, merely that enough people debated from that premise as to make up the majority of the debate.
Who decided that SoT was the “higher canon”? Do you argue merely from a chronological standpoint or are you arrogant enough to attempt to dictate which is the better version?
If you do not have a good knowledge of the shows how do you presume to debate with any intelligence?
“So you fail…” Are you a child?
@Morgaine
The books are the higher canon because they were written first. LoTS is a series loosely based on events depicted in the books. If you had indeed looked at the matches you would have noticed that the feats that pilers put forth were not to be seen in the series. So call me arrogant if you wish, I don’t mind it.
As far as anyone who has read the books, which includes me for having skimmed through them, SoT is the Higher Canon. Look at posts #9 and #28.
My knowledge on both shows is limited yes but yours on the SoT books is pratically null, hence your refusal to recognise the higher canon.
Ah, it gladdens the heart to hear that you “don’t mind” being called arrogant. And here was me worried you might be offended.
So let me get this straight, you don’t watch the shows and you’ve “skimmed through” the books… What the hell are you doing in this debate? Apart from hypocritically flaming Xenites for every debate flaw that you’ve since displayed.
I fail to see how posts 9 and 28 prove that SoT is the higher canon, and when did you start speaking for everyone who has read the books?
The Sword of Truth books are inarguably the higher canon. They came first, and they TV show was merely an adaptation of the books moved to another media and changed significantly in the process. No SoT books, no TV show. The author, Terry Goodkind, quite openly states that the books are his true vision, and that the show is simply designed to afford a peak into his world while maintaining the key characteristics and themes while changing some smaller details. There is no reason to assume that Kahlan and Cara will be in their LoTS incarnation rather then their original one from the books.
It’s really as simple as that, and has nothing to do with which is the “better” version. Even if the books were crap and the series was the best thing since sliced bread, the books would still be the more canonical source.
“It’s not disgusting, and both characters are bisexual – Cara explicitly/graphically and Xena as implicitly as you can get. I think they would go for each other, that’s all I meant by that.”
Cara’s supposed bisexuality is a trait that only occurs in the TV version, Legend of the Seeker. The actual Cara in the books is completely and explicitly straight, and has never at any point shown even the slightest level of interest in other women. As I’ve established that the books are the higher canon, there is no way that Cara would have any interest in Xena at all; she would simply be an obstacle, a danger to the Mother Confessor to be removed without hesitation and without mercy. Besides, why the hell would they “go for each other” when each is clearly in a relationship(s) with others in their respective series? Heck, Cara is actually MARRIED in the SoT books.
I would normally side with Xena on a one on one fight, but to be honest, Gabrielle is really more of a weakness than help. Maybe Gabrielle from the last episode would be useful, but she usually gets captured and used against Xena as a hostage more than coming in handy.
So I vote for Kahlan and Cara.
KAHLAN AND CARA WOULD SO WIN- cara would torture one to death while kahlan would confess the other!!
Kahlan and Cara > Xena and Gabrielle
~(@u@)/ + ( -_-) -! > (x_x) + (x_x)
not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but , Sam Raimi did both Xena and Legend of the Seeker shows, lol, wierd. btw the sot books are so much better, the show doesn’t follow them really at all, but is still entertaining
I’m gonna compare the tv shows.
I vote for Xena team (with 6th season Gabby).
Xena’s martial art skills are much better than Cara’s or Kahlan’s. She is able to catch arrows, deflect flying weapons, magic missiles, so throwing daggers or anything at her is not an option. Touching Xena is not so easy, so Kahlan will have problems if she wants to confess her.
Her mind-control ability is in high level, she’s able to raise a magical shield, throw explosive energy balls, turn flesh to stone, etc. Let’s say Cara would neutralize it.
Agiel would have no real effect on Xena, she was able to fight with broken legs, and what about the warrior rage?
Cara or Kahlan is not a real match for Xena in 1v1.
6th season Gabby with Sais is a good fighter, I think she can hold Cara up until Xena beats Kahlan. And the other hand, what would Kahlan do against the chakram? Especially if that’s the balanced chakram? Nothing. Only Cara is able to avoid it.
Blood Rage? Dunno, maybe Xena is well trained enough by Lao Ma, Alti and others.
Anyway, I love both shows
Does anyone realize that the Con Dar doesnt only work for richard? more than once in the series its stated that it will work for anyone she cares for and its stated that cara is like family so i think even if Xena attacked cara it would activate the blood rage. Wouldnt you be pissed if somebody was attacking aomebody you veiwed as a sister?
Ive read the SoT series and watched the show but never heard of Xena before this is it any good?
:O never heard of Xena? Dtoneguy, you sohul find some, it’s awesome, cheesy, arse kicking goodness.
:O never heard of Xena? Dtoneguy, you should find some, it’s awesome, cheesy, arse kicking goodness.
Only hope Xena has is that “chi” shit Lao Ma taught her. Something that she doesn’t have control over.
For clarification on the above post it all deals with evidence. While Xena’s physical feats (and sometimes mystical) were AWESOME they were really by no means super human in her respective universe.
Not superhuman? She turned an entire army into terra-cotta, she fought, and bested, gods and mythical creatures in hand-to-hand combat. Xena’s feats were far more superhuman than both Kahlan and Caras combined. That’s not to say that, given the chance, Kahlan and Cara (in LoTS) wouldn’t have done the same, but in the two seasons that they had their ‘superhuman’ feats do not compare to some of the things that Xena and Gabrielle did in Xena. But, again, I can’t speak for SoT.
I’m fan of of both XWP and Lots but I vote for Kahlan and Cara, beacause:
case #1 Kahlan vs Xena & Cara vs Gabrielle:
Gabrielle won’t withstand the pain of the Agiel, then Xena gets distracted by Gabrielle’s screams of agony and Kahlan will confess Xena and it’s over for Gabrielle.
case #2 Kahlan vs Gabrielle & Cara vs Xena:
Gabrielle isn’t as good fighter as Kahlan and Kahlan has more expirience -> Kahlan would easily confess Gabrielle and if she order her to kill Xena, Xena won’t want to hurt her and besides it would be 3 vs1.
If Xena & Gaby met Cara & Kahlan on the road, Gaby would begin a philosophical debate with Kahlan. Gaby would definately win as she is more opionated then Kahlan, we see Kahlan continually defer to Richard & Zed despite her feelings in matters. They would become great friends & Xena would become jealous. Xena & Cara would flex their muscles every chance they got, showing each other up as best they could. But ultimately Gaby would keep Xena under control & Xena would see the wisdom in this as all 4 are Heroes fighting against evil, not in spite of it.
“Snip Toni’s post #65″
on this site they fight to the Death, So that scenario is Invalid
It’s been a long time since Xena graced our screens, and I think it’s affecting memory. I have seen mention that Xena has no magic, and therefore wouldn’t stand a chance…BUT she did defeat the God of War in battle…magic is nothing new to her. Also seen a lot of reference to Gabrielle being kidnapped or taken down in seconds and so on…very true for the first few seasons of Xena – but she grew. By the last episode she could catch Xenas chakram, and in episodes where they were turning on eachother due to possession or a dream or whatever else – Gabrielle held her own against Xena without much of a problem. I still think Cara and Kahlan would win, but I don’t think it would be such an easy fight. Gabrielle and her sias vs Cara and her agiels would be epic and quite hot lol. I don’t know how much of me truly believe Cara and Kahlan would win…and how much of me is new biased for the seeker girls and faded memory
I’m a fan of both shows, X:WP since I was about twelve or thirteen and LotS very recently.
Fond as I am of Xena, I’d have to say that Kahlan and Cara would win this one.
In terms of combat, it’d be a close match between Xena and Kahlan. Xena would probably be the better fighter – at least if we’re dealing with LotS Kahlan as opposed to SoT Kahlan – but she’d be handicapped by the fact that she’d have to stay out of Kahlan’s reach. All Kahlan would need would be a split-second of physical contact and Xena would be confessed. If Xena is not aware of Kahlan’s ability in advance, then I would say that Kahlan would easily be able to hold her own long enough to get a hold of Xena. Once she does that, she can order Xena to kill Gabrielle or else demand Gabrielle’s surrender if she doesn’t want Xena to be ordered to fall on her own sword.
For Cara –vs- Gabrielle, there’d be no contest. Cara’s an adept fighter and I don’t see Gabrielle being able to keep from getting hit with at least one of Cara’s agiels, probably very early on in the fight. Once the agiel made contact, the pain would be more than enough to disable Gabrielle. She wouldn’t be prepared for it. Depending on how Kahlan is faring against Xena, Cara might draw it out before she kills Gabrielle but if Kahlan is in difficulty, she can use the agiel to finish Gabrielle in seconds and move to help Kahlan.
In the meantime, as noted by Daniel earlier in the thread, there’s a good chance that Gabrielle’s screams would distract Xena, which would give Kahlan the opening to confess her.
In this case, Gabrielle would be more of a liability than an asset, even Season Six Gabrielle. Xena would have her hands full with Kahlan or Cara, whichever one she was fighting, so she wouldn’t be able to run to Gabrielle’s aid when the other one fought her. At least part of her attention is likely to be on Gabrielle during the fight, and it’s not like she can afford the distraction.
I’d say that Xena would have a better chance facing off against Cara alone – Kahlan’s Confessor power would probably tip the scales in her favour if she and Xena were fighting one-on-one – than she would if she teamed up with Gabrielle against Kahlan and Cara.
Cara & Kahlan!!!!! Definately Cara & Kahlan
Ok. I LOVE CARA BUT… as for a fight between Gabby and Cara… just a reminder. Gabrielle inherited Xena’s chakram because the weapon itself recognized her prowess as a warrior and as a legitimate successor to Xena… because she can weld not only Bows and Arrows, staffs and sias (martial arts weapons btw) but samurai swords. She took out a Samurai warrior in a flash and continued to best him while she was distracted trying to save Xena in the jar (lol… that sounds silly). Remember when she went berserk and started taking out all the Roman guards when they were going to kill Xena? Gabs would hold her own with Cara. Xena would probably beat Kahlan (remember – Xena held her own with the Olympian GODS in hand to hand or weapon to weapon fights – and I’m not talking about the time when she had the power to outright kill Gods). I think the best they all could do against each other would be a draw.
The reply from AJ seems real good. Kahlan could also confess Xena if she was busy fighting off Cara and Gabrielle. Now about that hot-tub with Kahlan and Cara. Kahlan seems to have always been straight and Cara is becoming more straight so no HLA.
Other factors that could bring the victory to Kahlan and Cara are if Kahlan went into the Con Dar or “Blood Rage.” Physical contact is not require for confession and can also affected multiple targets simultaneously. Gabrielle and Xena would both be on their knees in seconds. Or if Kahlan or Cara had the magic of Orden, they would have absolute authority over all and magically compel obedience to their spoken commands. Again the contest would be over before it started. And just in case something did happen to my favorite, Kahlan, Cara could use the breath of life to bring her back. Maybe they could even talk Gabrielle and Xena into going down a rift to the underworld and fight the Keeper instead, if Xena is able to fight with the gods.
First of all, Xena is a pretty amazing fighter. While she has slain various mythical beasts, this is hardly that much of an accomplishment: so did Perseus, Odysseus, and Jason, and no one’s going to believe that Perseus (minus Pegasus, of course, considering the original Perseus never even touched him) could last ten minutes against Cara. However, the fact that Xena has beaten gods in pitched combat before, including a god of war, without using any sort of trickery (as far as I remember, anyway), is undeniable proof of her superior skills. As long as Xena is aware of both Kahlan’s Confessor status and the effects of Cara’s agiels, Xena would be able to hold her own against them. She wouldn’t be able to do much else, though, and given half a distraction (like Gabrielle, for instance, especially in the earlier seasons) she’d probably be overwhelmed.
Gabrielle in season 5/6 (especially 6) would be able to hold her own against either Kahlan or Cara for a time, but not both, and not forever- probably not even for long. She would be able to, though- otherwise Ares wouldn’t ‘ve been so interested in her.
Assuming this is LotS canon and X:WP season 6 canon and that all parties are aware of each others’ respective abilities, have their pick of weapons (and no, the magic of Orden does not count), are required to fight as teams (none of this Cara vs. Gabrielle, Kahlan vs. Xena single-combat mumbo jumbo) and aren’t given the time to strategize beforehand, Kahlan and Cara would win. They’d have a heck of a hard time, especially given that Xena and Gabrielle have had six years to adapt to each other’s fighting styles and would probably have better teamwork, but they would win in the end. If Xena and Gabrielle weren’t aware of their opponent’s abilities, given just a tiny bit of luck Kahlan and Cara would win pretty easily (Cara would put the agiel on poor Gabrielle, cold-hearted pragmatist that she is, and it’d be all over). Given a chance to strategize, though, Xena and Gabrielle would win. Xena has shown an amazing capacity for strategy, and she’d definitely be able to come up with something. I wouldn’t know what it is, not being anywhere near the ingenious strategist she is, but she would. The same would be true if Kahlan and Cara were unaware of their opponent’s abilities beforehand (and Xena and Gabrielle were).
If it was single combat, though, Xena would win, hands down, no contest. She wouldn’t be bringing Gabrielle with her, but sacrifices must be made (not really, but I’m trying to speak objectively here). This would be discounting the Con Dar and certain other factors, of course- bringing Con-Dar!Kahlan into the battle is like bringing a grenade to a gun fight, or in more relevant terms I-ate-ambrosia!Xena or chi-master!Xena into the battle. It would be pwnage, but it would also be totally against the whole point of this exercise. While I don’t fully agree with Blood Dancer up there, and the following point he made was in an entirely different context, it is true that this is a challenge of skill. It is not an all-out brawl of epic proportions pitting the characters at the highest possible point of their power against each other (in which case, I-ate-ambrosia!Xena would win. It’s highly unlikely that Confession would work on a goddess, considering goddess!Callisto rewrote the timeline like Chris Columbus rewrote ‘The Lightning Thief’.)
In any case, Xena’s high pain threshold would keep Cara from gaining any sort of upper hand, even if Cara can deflect the chakram (which as Comet said before is implied but not proven to be magical; for all we know the smashing and bouncing and returning could just be a normal aspect of the weapon as good ‘ol Hollywood would have it, even if it’s not realistic at all. It’s not like the show has another example we could compare it to.). The chakram isn’t the Warrior Princess’ only weapon after all, and Xena didn’t even use it as often as you’d think she would, considering it’s her signature weapon. As for the lovely Mother Confessor, the Warrior Princess doesn’t need to touch Kahlan to kill her- or even just knock her out. After all, Xena single-handedly defeated an army of three hundred Persians. Cara, no matter how awesome she is (and she is awesome), got her throat cut by a mercenary doubling as a wagon driver.
Xena has done many an amazing thing that LotS!Cara and LotS!Kahlan would never be able to match, and while I haven’t read SoT (I want to, but the apparent lack of bi!Cara makes me reluctant
), I doubt they could do much better. Xena defeated Ares, the god of war himself, as well as suped-up divine enemies Callisto and Velasco, killed all the Olympian gods except for Aphrodite and Ares, killed Mephistopheles (King of Hell before Lucifer in the Xenaverse, apparently) and tricked Lucifer into becoming the King of Hell in her place. I guess the question is: Do you think Cara and Kahlan could kill the Keeper like Xena killed Hades and Mephistopheles? Probably not.
I’ll admit that being able to kill divinities probably isn’t the last word in this debate. After all, just because you’ve slain a dragon doesn’t mean you can stand against the army that the dragon you just slayed could’ve reduced to cinders, and earlier I did say that given the same advantages and disadvantage in a team battle Kahlan and Cara would win. But, the big point here is, in X:WP the battles are not only between mortals and mortals but mortals and mythical beasts, demons, gods. It’s simply a higher playing field than the one Kahlan and Cara play on, and in her field Xena (and to a lesser extent Gabrielle) excels. Plopped down in the same environment, you couldn’t say the same for Kahlan and Cara- especially if their powers don’t work on non-human creatures, which was never explored in LotS (well, as far as I know of agiels work on banelings but those are humans, undead but still humans).
Wow, I just rambled on and on, didn’t I? Practically wrote an essay. I’m sorry about that; I tend to monologue about topics that raise my interests. I can only hope that people will read even half of this.
Also, as a side note, admin says “…Kahlan Amnell and Cara from the Legend of the Seeker/Sword of Truth franchise.” So, I would venture to say that this little p***ing contest- ahem, debate, can include points from both LotS and SoT canon. It also doesn’t limit you to a specific season or book, so it’s probably perfectly legitimate to include points from any and all of them, but best to stick with the latest information.
P.S. Please don’t scream at me about this being PG-13 or whatever. I deleted many words that wouldn’t have fit the so-called “rating” when I thought it would’ve driven my point in more easily, and I censored myself on the one part I couldn’t bring myself to delete. A girl is entitled to her opinions, after all, and that’s what this is starting to resemble. Then again, most of these so-and-so vs. so-and-so contests seem to end up that way, so maybe that’s normal.
@Blood Dancer
This is really a bit late, but I would also like to point out that both LotS and X:WP contain scenes in which two or more women were taking a bath together, as well as scenes in which two women kissed. In both it was implicit if not explicit that those female characters were “close”, if not “intimate”. Minors might read these posts, but it’s unlikely that a minor will read something like this unless they’ve already watched the shows, and in that case it’ll be nothing they haven’t seen or heard of before.
Also, you kinda give off a bit of a jack*** vibe. Possibly also a d**che vibe. Bye.
@jumpcliff – Cara is very much present throughout the entire SoT series, an excellent read, many times better than the show. I’d highly recommend you start reading!
@Jumpcliff
“Also, you kinda give off a bit of a jack*** vibe. Possibly also a d**che vibe. Bye.”
Why? Because I spoke my mind? Whatever floats your boat, I don’t care.
And we’re using Sword Of Truth canon not Legend of The Seeker, so live with that.
Draw ^-^ plus i don’t think they would fight each other in the first place
So I’m just ganna throw this one out there then, FP award to Cara and Kahlan, I mean really, the thread seems to push this way, and decisively too. Verdict time?
I think it’s definitely looking like a victory for Kahlan & Cara.
@BloodDancer
Well, no. I prefer it when people speaking their minds. It’s just that when “speaking your mind” becomes “speaking your mind in a way that’s callous and insulting, if not clearly meant to be antagonizing” that the my jack*** detector starts beeping. But whatever. Since you don’t care, you probably won’t read this anyway. Only, if you really didn’t care, why did you bother replying in the first place? And who said we were using SoT canon? Certainly not admin, who would be the final word in these cases. No, it appears that a very small faction agreed upon this, namely you. Guess what? NO ONE ELSE CARES.
And yes, it does appear that Cara and Kahlan are winning. Oh well, I like both teams anyway, so it doesn’t really matter to me.
Also, anyone else notice that admin said no “flame wars to help justify a victory for Team Xena”, yet it appears that most of the flames (myself included, I won’t deny that) center around our favorite BAMS and BAMC? Ah, the sweet, delicious irony. 
I would side with Kahlan and Cara only because I think them classier… bite me! :p
Magic aside, I think the only one in a disadvantage is Xena because all the rest use a weapon in each hand, having Gabrieller using the Sai, while Xena uses a two-handed sword. But that’s as far as I’m willing to go as I do love both pairs. Granted Xena (the show) never took itself as seriously as LotS did and as a result, IMHO, we are all biased.
More objectively though, I believe that LotS had far better and serious fight sequences than Xena where it seemed that they couldn’t shake off the goofiness factor -except from a handful of episodes, eg season and series finales.
Bottom line, if any kind of studio were to do such a scene/sequence between these 4 ladies, it would be a H3LL of a scene!
@Jumpcliff
A) I’ve been here longer
b) Unless stated by the admin himself we ALWAYS use the highest canon, which in this case would be The Sword of Truth Books.
c)So don’t act like a know-it-all self-righteous ass.
d) I don’t care whether you badmouth me or not. I know I am right.
@Blood Dancer
A) No-one cares.
B) What determines “higher” cannon?
C) Wow, that’s not even slightly hypocritical.
D) If you know that you’re right and you don’t care what people say, why are you here desperately defending your point of view?
I am a fan of both series, tv show Xena and the books, and I’ve also seen LotS. I personally think Xena and Gabrielle would win this fight. Let’s compare stats:
Martial Art/Fighting Skills: Xena, Gabrielle, Cara, Kahlan
-Xena.. much more advance than Kahlan and Cara. She’s trained in multiple forms often incorporating all of them to form a unique and superior form of fighting.
-Gabrielle.. less than Xena, but still more than Kahlan and Cara. She kind of learned as the series progressed, but she’s still been shown to best Elite Roman soldiers, multiple Amazons from different tribes, warlords, and even Ares’ almost-successor to Xena.
-Kahlan.. kind of hard to tell with both her and Cara since it’s in the books, but Goodkind never really describes her to fight with her body.. mostly just sword swings… so I’m gonna say that her fighting skills are generally mediocre.
-Cara.. Cara would be between Kahlan and Gabrielle. She at least has been shown to take down soldiers such as those from the Imperial Order using some fort of martial arts. Still not at the level of Gabrielle or Xena though since Cara mostly relies on her agiel.
Weaponry: Xena, Gabrielle, Kahlan, Cara
-Xena.. she’s proficient in sword, chobos, staff, bow and arrow, chakram, whip, and katana. She’s often outmatched gods in sword play which is a pretty big feat considering what they are and how much more experience they’ve had than her.
-Gabrielle.. quite proficient in staff, bow and arrow, chakram, and sais.
-Kahlan.. only seen her use a sword.. so… yeah.
-Cara.. seen her use daggers and her agiels (which isn’t really a weapon skill)
Strength: Xena, Cara, Kahlan, Gabrielle
-Xena.. suspicion has it that Xena is Ares’ daughter and she is in fact a demi-god. Regardless, Xena is insanely strong. She’s been shown to have the upper body strength to pull herself up vines and down while supporting another woman (which has happened frequently with Gabrielle and a woman named Najara). Her kicks and punches often have the capability of sending men and women flying through the air. I’m sure there have been other cases of her incredible strength which I add on if I can think of any if anyone wants more.
-Gabrielle.. not that strong.. which is why I rate her last
-Kahlan.. fairly strong.
-Cara.. strongest under Xena. She’s been shown to physically demolish imperial order troops when without her agiel. Her blows broke bones and disabled her enemies.
Agility/Speed: Xena, Gabrielle, Cara, Kahlan
-Xena.. While maybe not as fast as Cara, she’s been shown to flip over 20 feet in the air from the ground and also about 50 yards away (with the gathered momentum). She is hands down much more agile than either Gabrielle, Cara, or Kahlan.
-Gabrielle.. by season 6, she’s been shown to adapt some of Xena’s agility and flips, but still not quite a match for her. Her best feat. was probably flipping around a burning village in Japa with Xena, trying to put out the fires.
-Kahlan.. no flips, not much in speed, fairly agile, but not much more than an average person.
-Cara.. Somewhat agile and fast (shown in book 5 when she out ran that Haken guy when he stole the sword of truth.
Endurance: Cara, Xena, Kahlan/Gabrielle (debatable)
-Xena.. fought several Roman soldiers in a rage after being crucified and having her legs broken and won. Fought Alti even while experiencing the unimaginable pain (Alti has the power to make you relive lifetimes of death and pain).. so she managed to best Alti even though experiencing being crucified, having her legs broken, being hit by massive log, and suffering punches from Callisto and Ares.
-Gabrielle.. she suffered through Alti’s power too… not much endurance feats.
-Kahlan.. like Gabrielle, not much endurance feats. either, but from the feats. shown, they are pretty even.
-Cara… Mord-Sith. Enough said.
Powers: Kahlan, Xena, Cara, Gabrielle
-Xena.. First off, if she reconnects with her “serenity” or w/e… she can wield the powers that Lao Mao possessed (which were telekinesis, aerokinesis, energy balls, turning things to stone, and shields that bounce things off of it). With the power of a Shamaness, she can also enter the spirit realm and attack you in spiritual form.
-Gabrielle.. no powers whatsoever.
-Kahlan… Confessor powers and Con Dar.
-Cara.. ability to appropriate anothers magic and has her agiel.
Despite what Admin says, Gabrielle is very much capable of holding her own, especially season 6 Gabby. She can fight both individually at and equal them. Xena, on the other hand, would demolish them individually. That said, Gabby takes on Cara and Xena takes on Kahlan. Xena is much more trained in martial arts, much more agile, faster, much more powerful, and a better swordsman than Kahlan. Xena wins based on these alone. Gabrielle, while physically inferior, has better fighting skills, is more agile, and better with weapons than Cara. The way I see it is Cara can’t land a blow on Gabby, and while Gabby manages to land some on Cara, Cara shakes it off and asks “is that the best you can do?”. So it’s about even.
So the main thing that Kahlan and Cara seem to have against Xena and Gabrielle is magic. The argument goes that Kahlan can go into Con Dar. Wrong. She can only do it on behalf of another and canon shows that only on behalf of Richard. While Kahlan loves Cara, she isn’t in love with her as she is with Richard. Second, like already said, it can only be done on behalf of another. If Richard were in the fight, she would be able to. If it were a Universe fight, same. Since Richard is not included at all, there’s no reason for Kahlan to assume that Richard would be in danger in any way whatsoever.. so Con Dar is out. It’s also been said multiple times that Kahlan would confess Gabby straight from the start. Also wrong. Rules state that each have a general idea of the others powers, so both would know to avoid the touch of Kahlan and agiel.
On Cara’s power to appropriate another’s magic, Xena’s powers are purely spiritual, not magical. And yes, there is a difference. Xena wasn’t born with either. She obtained these powers through spiritual “exercises” and epiphanies. So I guess by focusing on Cara and Kahlan, she could turn them to stone.
Just to pre-empt anyone (mike) from saying that kahlan would condar there asses, she has only been shown to do this against darken rahl, a “mortal enemy” of sorts. Any other time, like against that one burly soldier in one of the first few books, she just had to touch them, she couldn’t shoot them. Also, it should be interesting to see sloth vs mike if he disides to argue for sot.
“Xena.. suspicion has it that Xena is Ares’ daughter and she is in fact a demi-god. Regardless, Xena is insanely strong. She’s been shown to have the upper body strength to pull herself up vines and down while supporting another woman (which has happened frequently with Gabrielle and a woman named Najara). Her kicks and punches often have the capability of sending men and women flying through the air. I’m sure there have been other cases of her incredible strength which I add on if I can think of any if anyone wants more.”
To add to this an episode in the first season showed Xena ripping steel chains apart with her bare hands. While not modern chains they’re similar size to chains I use regularly at work. The ones I use? They have a weight rating of 4,700 lbs.
“-Xena.. First off, if she reconnects with her “serenity” or w/e… she can wield the powers that Lao Mao possessed (which were telekinesis, aerokinesis, energy balls, turning things to stone, and shields that bounce things off of it). With the power of a Shamaness, she can also enter the spirit realm and attack you in spiritual form.”
there’s much more to this but none of them are part of her standard powers or current incarnation.
“Also, it should be interesting to see sloth vs mike if he disides to argue for sot.”
-facepalm-
“To add to this an episode in the first season showed Xena ripping steel chains apart with her bare hands. While not modern chains they’re similar size to chains I use regularly at work. The ones I use? They have a weight rating of 4,700 lbs.”
Definitely. There is plenty more instances, but I don’t think it’s necessary to look for them since these three should suffice.
“there’s much more to this but none of them are part of her standard powers or current incarnation. ”
But it’s within her power to reconnect to attain these spiritual powers if necessary. Proof of this is when Xena was about to be executed by orders of Ming Tien. She basically just concentrated and the powers came to her. Unfortunately, she let it slip from her grasps.. by succumbing to her rage and killing Ming Tien.
I’m surprised no one has bothered to even compare stats or feats., yet declare that Kahlan and Cara for factpile award when it’s so obvious, when one was composed, that Xena and Gabrielle would win.
Another few categories I neglected to mention are reflex, which Xena and Gabby excel at with Xena being able to catch arrows in mid air, both being able to wield the chakram; tactical skills which Xena exceeds over Kahlan and Cara in (and I can provide feats. for comparison if anyone wants); and even Xena’s sixth sense that allows her to sense when someone is about to attack (which was directly quoted by Mavican).
Xena and Gabrielle for FP award +1, unless anyone can argue against these stat comparisons.
@Ian
-surprised i missed this before.
“Just to pre-empt anyone (mike) from saying that kahlan would condar there asses, she has only been shown to do this against darken rahl, a “mortal enemy” of sorts.”
-nope, against d’haran soldiers, darken rahl, screelings, and shota the witch woman. it is also stated to be able to be brought up whenever she feels it is justified, and she has done that by simply thinking to herself that someone was interfering with her and richard’s relationship(shota instance).
@sloth
-your own arguments counter themselves. with precognition of attacks, it doesn’t take superhuman reflexes to catch arrows, and you just showed that she cannot reliably connect with her spiritual powers.
-anytime using the con dar, or any time without it that kahlan touches either xena or gabrielle the fight is won. and that’s just with kahlan, not even cara being considered.
Cara takes Gabrielle
Kahlan confesses Xena
End of fight, easy win for Cara and Kahlan
“-your own arguments counter themselves. with precognition of attacks, it doesn’t take superhuman reflexes to catch arrows, and you just showed that she cannot reliably connect with her spiritual powers.”
So her spiritual powers are gimmicky.. that’s no reason to dismiss the rest of my arguments.
“-anytime using the con dar, or any time without it that kahlan touches either xena or gabrielle the fight is won. and that’s just with kahlan, not even cara being considered”
So you agree.. the only thing Kahlan has going for her is her Confessors ability. Well, let’s see. Xena has her chakram.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMCuQ353Lv8
Xena & Gabrielle win.
Dante solos
@ Sloth
Have you read SOT, Kahlan gets more hectic then Zena ever does with her toy disc, and Gabrielle with her stick, neither could touch Cara or Khalan without being confessed or dying from the onslaught of her agiel, and I don’t think a disc and a stick well kill them, they actually know how to fight, Khalan very well with a sword and Cara in Hand-to-hand, i think that the SoT girls would win without they’re magic to be honest.