Suggested by CONCACAF
Interesting match here as we have alien races that are determined to conquer whatever gets in their way,
How does this play out?
Suggested by CONCACAF
Interesting match here as we have alien races that are determined to conquer whatever gets in their way,
How does this play out?
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I like this one. It looks fairly evenly matched (on the surface at least). Good times.
I dont know two races that can be tanked by modern tech on the ground… hmmm
from what i remember the goauld are not the best on ground combat i mean our todays forces could give their ground forces a good spanking.same counts for covenant but both forces could destroy our armies easily from orbit.so basicly the faction superior in space will win this war.based on ground combat im leaning towards the covenant but in space i think the goauld are stronger.
just a question (and forgive my outdated stargate knowledge) but are the goauld system lords united in this battle or did lots of stuff changed during the time.ive stopped watchin stargate after they finished SG-1.
On the ground, the covenant wins hands down. The Goa’uld’s infantry tactics mostly consist of throwing Jaffa at the problem until it goes away. This works when the enemy lacks automatic firearms, handheld explosives, and wireless communications. as it stands, the Jaffa simply don’t have the punch needed to go head to head with the covenant nor the tactical prowess to do anything else.
in space, the Goa’uld relies on numbers to overwhelm the enemy, but the covenant can compete in raw numbers. Furthermore, covenant ships tend to be designed more robustly, capable of withstanding more damage that the Goa-uld conterparts which were designed primarily to impress.
alot depends on the current incarnation rule, since in the latest versions the covenant are broken up and the goa’uld are all but gone, with maybe a handfull of ships.
but at their height of their power, i would go with the goa’uld with characters like anubis who would bring kull warriors into the fold which would be able to destroy huge numbers, of covenant forces with little or no loses, as well as ships that can destroy entire covenant fleets by themselves.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KceLudMu_I0&feature=related
checkout 2:16 in
and not forgetting the goa’uld ability to infiltrate basically every level of the covenant, imagine the prophet of truth under goa’uld control, ordering entire fleets and bases destroyed because they have turned heretic, the damage he or someone like could do before they where found it would be massive.
Current status on the Goa’uld and their armies of Jaffa and human slaves?
Quite important considering the current status of the broken Covenant.
the current status of the goa’uld and the armies is
there isnt any, the jaffa split and created their own nation which uttely hates the goa’uld , the system lords are dead, their fleets are under the command of the jaffa or lucian alliance.
so in total the minor goa’ulds in the arse rim of the universe, might be able to pull together a dozen ships and a few thousand warriors, if there extremely lucky,
if not it would be one or two ships and couple hundred warrior made up of mix of loyal jaffa and baseline humans.
That’s no fun to debate. It’s like the US stomping over a third world country. Again.
so its either the broken convenant curbstomping the last of the gou’ald or both sides at the height of their power.
which is the better of the two choices, you decide
Thats admin’s decision.
@admin
can we have an executive decision, is the current incarnation rule suspended for this match in order to make a more creative and entertaining debate,
because really otherwise its over here and know, and the covenant should just be given the FP award.
The Covenant may have this in both ground and space. The only saving grace is if the Goa’uld get Kull Warriors, but even they will fall to the sheer numbers of covenant troops.
I say both sides should be at the height of their power. Should be like that for many of the matches on here.
“both sides at the height of their power”
we have confirmation
the debate can continue
while the covenant would win most ground based combat, it my opinion that the goa’uld would have the advantage in aeriel and orbital combat.
just look at death glider vs banshee
the death glider can move between atmosphere and space, perform hairpin turns whilst providing better cover for the pilot.
@Shaun
That’s because the banshee is a close air support gunship and the death glider is an air superiority fighter.
then what will the covenant use then,
the covenant phantom is outclassed by the alkesh, and the seraph is slow and sluggish in atmo, the goa’uld would seem to be able to dominate low-orbit aeriel combat.
@Shaun
AA wraiths and scarabs, mostly.
Also, the phantom would tear apart an alkesh by the flanks.
1) “while the covenant would win most ground based combat, it my opinion that the goa’uld would have the advantage in aeriel and orbital combat.”
Dedicated fire teams, armour, artillery and competent aerial support? The Covenant walk all over the Goa’uld on the ground.
2) “just look at death glider vs banshee”
The Banshee is a ground reconnaissance vehicle, so comparing it to a starfighter is like comparing a Predator Drone to an F-22. The Seraph is the more apt comparison.
3) “the covenant phantom is outclassed by the alkesh, and the seraph is slow and sluggish in atmo, the goa’uld would seem to be able to dominate low-orbit aeriel combat.”
What have you based any of this on? I would call you out for your “no maths” analysis, but then your behavior is pretty obvious to everyone anyway.
Also you have yet to cite the great decider in universe matches, space combat.
I think Covenant have this in both ground and space. They have many better-designed ships, plus “Sniper Ships” which would no doubt come in handy.
“Sniper Ships”
No…The correct term would be the energy projector located on most if not all the covenant Star-ships. This weapon can be used to “snipe” other space craft, and glass planets.
halo.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_Projector
“The Energy Projector is a Covenant weapon used exclusively by large ships. It fires a thin beam of energized matter which has very long range and is extremely accurate and destructive, capable of destroying ships effortlessly and “glassing” planets, systematically rendering them sterile and incapable of sustaining life. “
Anyone remember the terrible bombardment from Stargate Continuum?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ostc7pHMpSw
Covenant have this in the bag.
the goauld is a parasite isnt it? that takes over minds all it takes is one getting inside Truth.
“Anyone remember the terrible bombardment from Stargate Continuum?”
they weren’t trying to destroy the planet, only weaken it for conquest.
the alkesh has energy sheilds, and is far more maneuverable to anything i have seen the phantom do, not forgetting certain alkesh can cloak and are fitted with asgard beaming technology.
“the alkesh has energy sheilds, and is far more maneuverable to anything i have seen the phantom do, not forgetting certain alkesh can cloak and are fitted with asgard beaming technology.”
Even though none of this has so far been quantified, it is still irrelevant in comparison to the overall picture.
How many times have I waxed lyrical about this concept to you before? Real warfare isn’t about rock, paper and scissors where a piece of wunder technology determines the outcome of the war; in the end it’s about the acquisition of manpower, resources, industry, firepower, logistics and how well it’s applied.
“How many times have I waxed lyrical about this concept to you before? Real warfare isn’t about rock, paper and scissors where a piece of wunder technology determines the outcome of the war; in the end it’s about the acquisition of manpower, resources, industry, firepower, logistics and how well it’s applied.”
No sane person would argue with that, its a universal truth. “An army marches on its stomach” and all that.
However, it also makes for an incredibly dull visual, and an even duller debate. When two huge universal powers fight, no-one wants to hear about the carefully acquisitioned metals that go into making the weapons to replace any lost in battle, they want to hear about the battle said weapons were lost in. Thats how a tale goes, and when debating, most people picture the battle that would ensue between the two combatants, be they men, universes, mecha’s…. Its human nature.
*in the end it’s about the acquisition of manpower, resources, industry, firepower, logistics and how well it’s applied.*
which both races have but both races suck at applying their military resources properly.i guess it comes down to which race sucks less in applying its forces into combat situations but more importantly who has the upperhand in space combat.but since my knowledge at both races our proberly outdated i guess i stay at the sidelines.
if i still have to say something with my current knowledge of both races i side with covenant on both actully….since the goaulds really suck at even the very basic’s of warfare.only reason they had succesfull conquests is because they mainly attacked planets with populations living in the dark ages as far as i remember.
So which side has faster/stronger space ships? Ground combat goes to Covies without question, but the space battles will be the deciding factor.
Do we know what the strength of Goa’uld weapons on board their ships? It takes at least a teraton (Halo Encyclopedia retconned the MAC as much as I hate it since it seems inconsistent with the rest of the UNSC tech) to breach a Covenant’s ships shield. One of the Goa’uld from SG did have a fairly powerful mothership that had a weapon capable of wiping out several smaller motherships, but that’s in it’s own universe.
Zerviziel the average Goa’uld ship mounted cannons have the firepower of 200 megatons per plasma burst. They are basically ship mounted staff cannons with an upgrade and suck.
“One of the Goa’uld from SG did have a fairly powerful mothership that had a weapon capable of wiping out several smaller motherships, but that’s in it’s own universe.”
that was anubis mothership and its weapon seems to bypass sheilds all together,
a basic Ha’tak survived a naquadah-enhanced Mark 12A Minuteman nuclear weapon (estimated at 1 gigaton of explosive force), with no real decrease in sheild power, so in terms of sheilds a say there about equal.
Surviving a 1 gigaton explosion is a little different than surviving a projectile with capable of generating 1.17 teratons (yes, I know. I facepalmed too when I saw it) through sheer kinetic force.
“the average Goa’uld ship mounted cannons have the firepower of 200 megatons per plasma burst”
however it has 60 staff cannons per ship, with the ability to fire in rapid blasts, so they may not be able to take out a covenant sheild in a single blast, continues bombardment should have the same effect in short time,
here is some goa’uld in action also the bit where the goa’uld ships survive enchanced nukes
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQn1AID6F5M 1:08m in
“Surviving a 1 gigaton explosion is a little different than surviving a projectile with capable of generating 1.17 teratons (yes, I know. I facepalmed too when I saw it) through sheer kinetic force.”
however it is the unsc that have the MAC, i know you where using it as example of how much a covenant cruiser can take,
however the Ha’taks ability to survive a gigaton blast with little or no real effect, helps show that it would also need something, in the terton range to do a one shot kill against it, even more for the advanced hataks of anubis, let alone what you would need for his and apophis’s flagships.
When the US tried to nuke the Goa’uld in question, the warheads didn’t detonate. Instead, they ran into the shields and got plasterd over several miles of space. Think of it as throwing a bag of gunpowder at a tank, only for the fuse to fail and the powder scatter everywhere.
It’s actually a weird effect of nuclear bombs that unless you set them off right, they just seem to fizzle.
So wait, the nuclear device with an estimated yield of 1 gigaton fizzled out instead of blowing at full capacity? If that’s true then the Goa’uld’s shields may be weaker than I thought. I want it confirmed that it did indeed fail to detonate properly and if it’s yield was one gigaton. The phrase “estimated to be” doesn’t fill me with a whole lot of confidence.
impossible there is a reason why it is estimated, im afraid your going to have to take it or leave it,
however the goa’uld where quite happy to let their sheilds take the blast, so even if did explode early, the was no evidence that the explosion at full power would have down them any harm.
and there is plent of evidence to show goa’uld taking dozens of 200 megaton blasts from one another without their sheilds failing, and a ha’tak was able to survive an hour in the corona of a blue star with no structual damage.
blue stars or class-O, shine with a power a million times that of our own sun.
If the bomb exploded to early and not at it’s full potential how can you say it could withstand it of optimum range and exploding at full power? Also could you show us this evidence you speak of….or at least where you got the weapons have 200 megaton yields because I’ve yet to find it on any of the sites I checked.
stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ha%27tak
under the weapon section.
the goa’uld a notably cowardly race, with access to advanced sensors, showed no fear with two high yeild nuclear devices heading straight for them, with the only action they took was to raise sheilds, not even trying to move out of the way.
@Shaun
they are also entirely overconfident in their own power.
true i wont argue with that, but its a weakness the covenant have too.
Strange. I was on that wiki and didn’t see that. Must have overlooked that.
I would be careful using the Halo Encyclopedia since the game (the highest canon) outright contradicts the 0.4c MAC figure by showing a Covenant Assault Carrier getting outright mission killed by a rock moving at 1/150,000th the speed. Even if the shields were down at the time, it demonstrates how little of the momentum Covenant shields can actually physically tolerate.
However novel evidence and the most reasonably conservative estimates (since there are only two known questionably teraton events in the Halo series, plus a dozen FAR lower energy incidences to take into account) seems to suggest Plasma Torpedoes operating in the double digit gigatons – 30 to 50 – at most, which most Cruisers can tank several of to the shields and possibly several more depending on the size of the vessel in question.
During the episode “Enemies”, a Ha’tak vessel moved deep into the corona of a blue giant, to which they estimated that their shields would fail within ten hours under this bombardment. Based on the colour spectrum of the star, we can conclude that this star was at least ten thousand times greater to Earth’s star in terms of general luminosity. We can estimate corona power intensity to be roughly 600,000 MW/m^2, since that is the approximate power intensity at the surface of blue giants in general (note that the corona is outside the star). If we use a 100,000 m^2 profile area estimate, total absorption is roughly 60,000 TW.
At a max absorption rate of 26103.7 megatons per hour, the shields of a Ha’tak would only be good for 261 gigatons of energy at most. But this is the surface energy of star being distributed over a period of hours, whereas plasma torpedoes and lasers distribute their energy over a much smaller surface area nearly instantaneously; therefore they will likely have a greater impact on the shields since the active radiation system designed to dump heat at a rate commensurate with a
blackbody of this temperature is likely to fail sooner under the stress of the sudden introduction of a greater energy load.
Ah, good point L-W. The game canon does overrule the incredibly and depressingly stupid Halo Encyclopedia. Seriously, it seems that the guys that created the damn thing just threw out numbers hoping to sound smart, not realizing they were making themselves look like abject retards.
so would it be fair to say they are about equal on sheild strength then.
“so would it be fair to say they are about equal on sheild strength then.”
Not necessarily.
After all the Ha’tak in question was absorbing 26103.7 megatons over the course of an hour, which allowed their radiators (the shield component that reflects wasted energy back into space) to slowly process 7.2 megatons worth of magnetic fields, X-ray bursts, nebula gases, and highly exotic particles per second during their time in the Corona.
Now whilst the overall shield strength is similar, the radiator remains the most vital component in the equation, since the speed at which it can process the flow of waste heat determines the integrity of the shield. The faster the heat is distributed, the greater the chance that the shields will both remain active and recover before the next impact.
In other words, a large and nearly instantaneous burst of energy from a torpedo or a laser is likely to burden the shield grid beyond capacity, further weakening the energy shield itself since if it cannot process what it is handling at that moment, the next hit is likely to cause further damage as interest. Here’s a simple flow diagram to demonstrate.
Ha’tak shield grid is rated at 100:
A) Plasma Torpedo impacts with -25 energy +10% cool down time.
B) Shield at 75, recovery time of 10%.
C) Plasma Torpedo impacts with -27.5 energy with a +20% cool down time.
C) Shield at 47.5, recovery time of 20%.
You get the picture. Every time the shield is hit with more than it can handle, it causes a backlog of excess energy that has to be stored inside a system that cannot afford to do it.
What of the energy projectors? In the books the Covenant discharged those first to knock out the enemies shields. How would that effect the Ha’tak?
By possibly at least sapping their shields on contact by an unknown degree.
Which team has the numbers on their side?
BTW….
The Halo Encyclopedia isn’t exactly truthful. There are dozens of errors in the thing. Not quite as many as Halo Legends though. Important events in the Halo story my ass, half the things on that disc don’t make sense, never happened, or don’t even exist.
Sadly both the Halo Encyclopedia and Halo Legends have been declared canon.
wait why is everyone discounting the goa’uld in ground combat, has noone seen Kull warriors?
kull warriors are indeed, powerful troops however there isnt enough of them to fight the entire covenant, let alone ground vehicles such as wraiths,ghost and epecially scarabs, even kull warriors cant ignore the physics of being stepped on.
this battle will be mostly decided in orbit, for whoever can control space, can control the war.
but let us not overlook, the goa’uld ability to infilitrate and corrupt, the covenant from within, as admirals and generals they can feed intelligence back to their side, whilst pretending to work for the covenant so not to become suspicous, while they cant just order their troops to kill each other, but they can create weakness in their defences for the goa’uld to exploit later on.
we can only imagine what they could do if they took other a prophet, if not all of them.
Have you seen Hunters and Scarabs?
That would be an interesting scenario. Of course failure is not tolerated well in the Covenant and even slight errors could cause the death or demoting of a commander. They would have to make very secretive “mistakes” for that to work.
“Important events in the Halo story my ass, half the things on that disc don’t make sense, never happened, or don’t even exist.”
Yeah, because you obviously know every thing that happens in a fictional universe.
The only one that isn’t cannon is “Odd One Out”.
Those mistakes arn’t counted as canon but the overall story for each of those episodes are canon except “Odd One Out”
I can understand some of the stories as canon, and know that I think about it, it was only minor mistakes and things that didn’t make sense.
“If we use a 100,000 m^2 profile area estimate, total absorption is roughly 60,000 TW.”
Hataks are 700 meters in diameter, and the Corona survival was a Goa’uld ship at it’s weakest. Later on, Anubis improved Goa’uld shielding to the point where they were capable of absorbing Tollan and Asgard weapons without any damage, where as the same Tollan Ion Cannon would destroy a Hatak with your calculations with a single shot. This implies an absorption factor at least a few orders of magnitude greater then your initial calculation. If previously the Hatak could absorb 261 gigatons, and that ship was utterly destroyed by a a single blast, then that blast likely has a power of around 250 gigatons (I understand that the calculation was based on total surface area over the course of an hour, but to completely destroy the ship with a single blast would require much more power then simply overloading the shields). If 250 gigaton blasts are now rendered ineffective to the point of NO damage, then what good would a 50 gigaton plasma torpedo do? This would put Goa’uld Hatak shielding at what… 260×1,000 = 260 teratons per hour?
Covenant weapons would be ineffective against current Goa’uld shielding. Later on, we see these upgraded Hataks damaging each other, implying that the weapons were upgraded as well. This is consistent, since the upgraded Goa’uld ships were actually able to destroy Thor’s ship, an Asgard vessel. Anyone who’s watched SG-1 knows how big of an ‘OH SHIT’ that is. Anyway, to me it seems the Goa’uld have space superiority.
(I’m aware that my calculations aren’t exactly accurate, but their enough to give you an idea of how much stronger the Hatak shields are)
1) “Hataks are 700 meters in diameter”
Learn the definition of profile area, or in other words, the area of the vessel exposed to photon emissivity at an angle comparable to black body emissions. Since the vessel clearly isn’t a black body radiator, a 100,000 m^2 profile is actually a highly conservative measurement on my part.
Since the equilibrium of the temperature at this distance is greater than the melting point of tungsten, it is highly unlikely that a solid, inert material can maintain this temperature for even one hour (let alone ten), so the hull is most likely melting. The only alternative is that it has some kind of active radiation system in order to dump heat at a rate commensurate with a blackbody mass of this temperature.
I could quadruple the area and my figure would be pointless, therefore 100,000 m^2 remains the optimum figure.
2) “Later on, Anubis improved Goa’uld shielding to the point where they were capable of absorbing Tollan and Asgard weapons without any damage”
I’m tired of this no math’s approach, I really am. Quantify the figure or don’t bother.
3) “where as the same Tollan Ion Cannon would destroy a Hatak with your calculations with a single shot.”
I guess you overlooked the two separate posts in which I explained to Shaun why my shield estimations aren’t the total tactical shield reserve or even representative of a conservative high end.
The process of providing energy shielding involves the reflection, diffusion or absorption and transfer of harmful energies. However the firepower that the shield disposes can be far greater than the power that the shield generator draws from the ship’s reactor. A mirror consumes no power when it reflects a ray of light. An initially concentrated light beam may diffuse in an opaque fog, without the fog requiring power input, this is an example of passive scattering that possibly occurs as the ship’s radiators transmits the heat given off in the corona over the course of hours upon hours of continuous use.
The difference between bleeding ten gigatons over the course of hours and bleeding ten gigatons in a millisecond has severely different ramifications on both passive and active systems. As such incoming firepower that is absorbed by the shield system must ultimately be re-radiated as waste heat of some kind. If starships are to avoid being internally melted by energy transmitted by their shields during enemy barrages, then they need two things: internal heat sinks with enormous heat capacities, and an efficient means of eventually removing the heat accumulated in these sinks. In effect, this aspect of the shield system acts like a refrigerator heat-pump, which consumes power in order to transport and expunge a much larger amount of heat energy. Then in order to prevent the internal temperature of the vessel from going from a comfortable room temperature to the melting point of iron in less than a second (I doubt the crew would enjoy that) it has to sacrifice power (not that it isn’t already bleeding it off since it has to maintain active systems) to keep the radiators from being vaporized.
The fact that the Ha’tak was given a definite time frame for survival would suggest that the latter was the case, since passive systems generally don’t have a default period of survival (they simply are).
4) “If previously the Hatak could absorb 261 gigatons, and that ship was utterly destroyed by a a single blast, then that blast likely has a power of around 250 gigatons (I understand that the calculation was based on total surface area over the course of an hour, but to completely destroy the ship with a single blast would require much more power then simply overloading the shields)”
No, no it wouldn’t, and I doubt you understood the significance of the calculation.
The blast could quite easily be fifty to a hundred gigatons and still overpower the shields at the point of impact. The shield isn’t literally a unified wall of energy since no visual evidence actually corroborates with such extreme demonstration shield technology, therefore the mechanisms have to suffer to limitations in between a time frame ratio of 3600:1.
5) “If 250 gigaton blasts are now rendered ineffective to the point of NO damage, then what good would a 50 gigaton plasma torpedo do? This would put Goa’uld Hatak shielding at what… 260×1,000 = 260 teratons per hour?”
See above.
6) “Covenant weapons would be ineffective against current Goa’uld shielding.”
That’s a vague and generally unfounded statement. All Covenant weapons would be totally ineffective based on fiat of you’re unfounded and inaccurate calculation?
7) “Later on, we see these upgraded Hataks damaging each other, implying that the weapons were upgraded as well.”
Further presumptions based on even weaker postulations.
8A) “This is consistent, since the upgraded Goa’uld ships were actually able to destroy Thor’s ship, an Asgard vessel.”
This is based on? Stating that A beats B who then goes on to beat C who just finished off A is the most unreasonable demonstration of circular logic I’ve yet to see.
8B) “to me it seems the Goa’uld have space superiority.”
Of course this says absolutely nothing of the myriad of other tactical and strategic variables that have to be taken into account when determining achievable space superiority.
9) “I’m aware that my calculations aren’t exactly accurate”
That’s an understatement.
10) “but their enough to give you an idea of how much stronger the Hatak shields are”
Of course one ridiculous calculation is merely an invitation to another, such as the particle density of plasma beams and torpedoes at high velocities.
For example, assuming one gram per cubic meter (less than a thousandth that of air) for a 100 meter diameter sphere of plasma (ref. Fall of Reach), traveling at 0.5c it would carry 1.405 gigatons of kinetic energy alone without the thermal working. Since the plasma torpedoes fired in “First Strike” were essentially articulated laser component particle beams, it’s unlikely Cortana was generating more momentum than the asteroids in question were generating through internal torque due to vaporized materials.
Assuming a plasma density of 1 kilogram per cubic meter (still less than air), it carries 1.4 teratons of kinetic energy alone. So if we were to be realistic and state that for the sake of momentum you could double, triple or even quadruple the density of the plasma until you decreased the buoyancy to less than that of a party balloon, you could be looking at dozens of teratons in kinetic energy alone.
But from a conservative standpoint these figures cannot possibly be right, however my calculations are at least accurate in postulating the possibility of higher firepower figures.
wow reading that made my eyes melt from the epicness of it
As an addendum to my previous point (one that I should have made clear), in laymen terms a shield can be “technically” measured in joules and tons, ideally due to the nature of the operating mechanism it should be measured in watts. Ergo the active shield dissipation rate.
Now based on their time in the corona, the actively powered shield system (since I doubt passive systems were designed to handle this) generated a resistant heat dissipation rate of under 23,244 gigawatt hours, since the shield strength was expected to fail within a time of ten hours; this would put passive unshielded systems at a dissipation rate of less than 2,324 gigawatt hours. However since the crew would have died from exposure within the last hour, it suggest that the passive and secondary active systems were expected to operate at magnitudes less than the shield itself.
L-W has done an brilliant job, coming up with figures for the Ha’tak, however we need is the covenant figures to compare.
pretty mutch yeah
@shaun182
Aye. That’s one thing I really Like about L-W is if a debate is kind of dragging along and no real headway is being made which especially seems to happen with debates concerning space combat L-W shows up to provide clear concise info while castigating anyone foolish enough to blurt unfounded claims or just those unfortunate to post something he sees is wrong.
makes me feel lucky to not have been a target of his/hers/its/tits lol tits
well at least i think i have not………if i did it must of been reallly epic epic enough to purge my memorys of it
I suppose that’s what I get for making a post at 2 in the morning on a school night.
I had come into this debate believing the Covenant would win, but at reading L-W’s 260 gigatons/hour vs. 50 gigaton covenant plasma torpedoes, I had believed it swayed to the other side due to the shield upgrade. I clearly misinterpreted his calculations.
But I’m curious about something else, what are Covenant FTL speeds? Goa’uld hyperspace is 34,000c. If the Covenant are faster, then we have a clear victor for this match.
“But I’m curious about something else, what are Covenant FTL speeds? Goa’uld hyperspace is 34,000c. If the Covenant are faster, then we have a clear victor for this match.”
Hey, sorry to sound like an ass, but I guess I shouldn’t form a post so early in the morning.
On the subject of FTL speed, the Covenant are at around 350,000c, give or take.
hmmm
350,000c
Vs
34,000c
yeah i think the commies um covvies have got this one
stupid goa’uld hyperdrive
i was going to argue that human hyperdrives can get from earth to atlantis in three weeks, which is said to be over three million lightyears away, and how could human hyperdrives be superior to goa’uld but i just remembered they use asgard hyper drives.
so they main hope for the goa’uld is inflitration of the covenant hierarchy, asgard beaming technology, for teleporting bombs and elite solidiers onto enemy craft and what i believe is superior cloaking tech.
it could be a useful strategy for the goa’uld, to attempt to gather a large enough force made of enemy ships, done by taking over covenant captains and admirals, and space the crew or just beam them into space.
It wouldn’t be enough. The desparity between the FTL speed is on give the Covenant a major tactical edge, not to mention the numbers and firepower the possess gives them far more then what is needed to beat the Goa’uld into submission.
whilst the FTL gives them an huge advantage, i am still unsure about ship numbers and firepower, since getting to the target faster is pointless, if they cant beat them once they are there.
epecially the more advanced hataks, which have improved weapons and sheilds, some will include cloaking devices and asgard beam technology.
Hey L-W. Could i see the calcs for the Covenant FTL speeds please?
If we use a comparison between the relative ‘ranges’ of firepower as witnesed in Halo and Stargate, the Covenant absolutely hammer the goa’uld in all comparisons.
Let us take a simple enough argument, we won’t use the absolute high ends of Halo for the sake of avoiding claims of bias, but we will use the unparralleled 200 megaton staff cannon blast quote.
The staff cannon appears to five about three times a second, for 600 megatons a second, any given vessel can only bring half it’s guns to bear on a target, so that is a total output power of 18 gigatons a second on a given target.
Let us compare this with the engine output of a UNSC frigate. In First Strike, a UNSC frigate manages to cover ten thousand kilometres in 18 seconds, on a course change of 240 by 35(nearly an about turn, so the starting velocity is likely to be negative). At the time, the vessel was damaged to an unknown extent, and was carrying a Covenant ship as dead weight.
We’ll use the four thousand tonne frigate mass for this, and assume one tonne of propellant was ejected every second(a perposterous amount of fuel, considering the vessel carries 3,000 tonnes of MAC rounds, and at least 780 Archer missiles, which probably weigh more than one tonne).
So, to do the math:
S=UT+0.5*A*T^2=0+0.5*A*18^2=162*A=10,000,000=A=61,728.4 ms^-2
F=M*A=4,000,000*61,728.4=246,913,580,247
Conservation of momentum dictates the fuel has the same force on it, so it’s velocity must increase to match(in the case of propellant per second force can be taken as momentum).
P=M*V=1,000*V=246,913,580,247=246,913,580.247 ms^-1
eK=0.5*M*V^2=500*246,913,580.247^2=3.04831580552e+19 Joules
That means the reactor of a frigate was doing a work of at least 7,245 megatons TNT equivalent per second. That’s ignoring the whole extra ship that was being carried as well, and the probably quite large negative starting velocity, and using an excessively large propellant mass(due to the nature of kinetic energy as the mass of the propellant goes down, the work increases).
So the UNSC’s smallest vessel type, producing 0.4 times the power of the Goa’uld’s staple vessel.
To compare volumes, a UNSC firgate occupies approximately 5,000,000 cubic metres. Compare that with the Covenant CCS-Cruiser which occupies at least 35,000,000 cubic metres(taking the volume by the widest dimensions and dividing by ten for laughs).
Which means the Covenant’s standard battleship(of which they have thousands) produces(as an approximation, not considering the better energy generation means of Covenant vessels) about seven times what a UNSC frigate produces.
That’s approximately 2.8 times the effective fire output of a Ha’tak, or 1.4 times the vessel’s total.
As such, in space, the Covenant outnumber, ougun, and out manuevre the Goa’uld(who’s primary strategy is a brute force approach, with neglect for strategic FTL usage).
It is also worth noting the loss of a 30 kilometre long station with a circumference of ten kilometres, along with a fleet of 500 capital vessels was not considered a major setback in the Covenant war effort(where as by comparison, the loss of a Ha’tak or two seems to be considered big in Stargate).
Basically, it’s a brutal stomp.
“Hey L-W. Could i see the calcs for the Covenant FTL speeds please?”
I know you’re asking L-W for the calc, but I can provide it. It comes from Ghost of Onyx, where it is stated a Covenant slipspace drive can travel 38 lightyears in an hour.
Which works out to 912 lightyears in a day, or 333,108 lightyears in a year. There are other calculation which can be done(with liberal assumptions, and therefore a large error margin) that reach as high as 30 million C.
“Which works out to 912 lightyears in a day, or 333,108 lightyears in a year. There are other calculation which can be done(with liberal assumptions, and therefore a large error margin) that reach as high as 30 million C.”
Really? As far as I ever heard 350,000c was the highest end figure out there.
The other revolves around the positioning of Halo installations, using Halo 2.
Logically, the first halo installation must have been ‘near’ Reach(and in turn, Earth), as the PoA got to it in relatively short order(even with the UNSC’s piddling ~700 C drives). Therefore it’s distance from the two is negligible in terms of it’s range.
Ergo the second installation is at least 25,000 lightyears away, possibly as much as 50,000. Although 30,000 lightyears is the figure I’ve sen for total coverage of the galaxy.
Therefore ~30,000 lightyears was covered in Regret’s jump from Earth. Assuming it took a whole day(considering no one had the time to get to any stasis pods, or apparently do anything at all, this is rather generous) that’s a total ‘velocity’ of 10,957,500 C.
The 30 million is gained using different assumptions.
Mind you, the Encyclopedia states all jumps are instantaneous, so it could be interpretted to be of infinite ‘velocity’.
Which fits with my original interpretation of Halo working at the speed of plot, since a passage in Halo Evolutions (I have yet to purchase a copy) seems to suggest that intense Covenant glassing requires hundreds of warships to accomplish (which would actually bring Halo firepower levels back down to the more numerous megaton level instances).
However I feel that the tens of millions of light speed estimation is built upon an extremely shaky foundation, since it assumes that the Mombasa to Delta Halo jump lasted only hours instead of the documented time of two weeks (or 11 days if you want to be nit-picky).
In fact the entirety of Halo: ODST and the Ghosts of Onyx make explicit references to the events taking place between Truth’s fleet arriving at New Mombasa and the opening of Halo 3, as well as the Halo Uprising comics and the documented dates recorded on bungie.net (which puts the dates at October 20th to November 2nd).
To accept the Halo Encyclopedia on this issue then we’ll pretty much have to throw out Ghosts of Onyx, ODST, a couple of the comics and Bungie’s written word whilst making a buttload of assumptions on the placement of the array (which the Encyclopedia states are numbered based on their distance from the Ark).
“Which fits with my original interpretation of Halo working at the speed of plot, since a passage in Halo Evolutions (I have yet to purchase a copy) seems to suggest that intense Covenant glassing requires hundreds of warships to accomplish (which would actually bring Halo firepower levels back down to the more numerous megaton level instances).”
Well, unless the definition of glassing has changed(from vaporisation of the oceans, and heating the resulting gasses and original atmosphere to the point of escape velocity), it really doesn’t. As 36 ships doing it in a day takes 6.45 teratons a second, per ship(low end, the estimate does not include any ground heating, and assumes perfect energy usage, rather than the supoer heated plumes escaping in excess that would actually be witnessed). hundreds of ships(assuming ten times more) doing it in the same time frame brings it down to 645 gigatons a second, per ship.
So unless it takes them 1.8 years to glass a world, their ships output gigaton(s) per second. Using that event.
Although I agree on it working at the speed of plot. It’s yields go up and down to an insane degree depending on what the author wants right at that moment, as with any science fiction(it’s just people seem to notice it more with Halo for some reason).
“However I feel that the tens of millions of light speed estimation is built upon an extremely shaky foundation, since it assumes that the Mombasa to Delta Halo jump lasted only hours instead of the documented time of two weeks (or 11 days if you want to be nit-picky).”
I know, hence I never supported the calculation. I was merely stating there are high ends that go up far higher.
The original estimation was made before the timeline of events was released, although the timeline of events still only brings the value down to 996,000 C(using the original premise).
“To accept the Halo Encyclopedia on this issue then we’ll pretty much have to throw out Ghosts of Onyx, ODST, a couple of the comics and Bungie’s written word whilst making a buttload of assumptions on the placement of the array (which the Encyclopedia states are numbered based on their distance from the Ark).”
Yeah, I only mentioned it as a further example of higher ranges that can be used. As the Encyclopedia is legitimate canon, although many prefer to ignore it.
1) “Although I agree on it working at the speed of plot. It’s yields go up and down to an insane degree depending on what the author wants right at that moment, as with any science fiction(it’s just people seem to notice it more with Halo for some reason).”
Not even Nylund can keep it straight, with Cruisers that have the ability to physically tolerate both the thermal and kinetic energy of multi-teraton torpedoes moving at half the speed of light and suffer hull damage that grants a UNSC vessel the opportunity to kill it with an Archer spam, to Covenant vessels being outright vaporized by a cluster of thirty megaton nukes or a ground reactor detonation that two (albeit power armoured) Humans can survive by leaping into the nearby Ocean. Or the author to author contradictions, such as Shiva nukes pretty much dominating anything within hundreds of kilometers in space combat, but leaving a ground contingent of Covenant troops within close proximity of the blast site suffering radiation sickness.
Then you have the whole anti-matter/Deuterium-Tritium debate, which I just can’t comment on for the sake of my sanity.
2) “Yeah, I only mentioned it as a further example of higher ranges that can be used. As the Encyclopedia is legitimate canon, although many prefer to ignore it.”
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of these nuts who outright denies the existence of canon material such as the ICS or ME Codex, I just treat canon on a case by case example which I usually resolve if given enough time (such as the 8km to 19km Executor); as of now, I’m referring to the Encyclopedia as my own personal “The Die is Cast”.
“Not even Nylund can keep it straight,”
Y’see, this is why most of us hate debating Halo technicalities., it doesn’t make sense to begin with.
“Not even Nylund can keep it straight, with Cruisers that have the ability to physically tolerate both the thermal and kinetic energy of multi-teraton torpedoes moving at half the speed of light and suffer hull damage that grants a UNSC vessel the opportunity to kill it with an Archer spam, to Covenant vessels being outright vaporized by a cluster of thirty megaton nukes or a ground reactor detonation that two (albeit power armoured) Humans can survive by leaping into the nearby Ocean. Or the author to author contradictions, such as Shiva nukes pretty much dominating anything within hundreds of kilometers in space combat, but leaving a ground contingent of Covenant troops within close proximity of the blast site suffering radiation sickness.”
Yeah, but then look at say, for the sake of being on topic, Stargate. We have explosions from nukes being 812 gigaton affairs, to Atlantis needing special power generation to defend against an eighty megaton(TNT equivalent) wave.
The bombing in continuum, the coronal mass ejection(that the visuals portray as the ship being gently buffeted by some hot gasses, where as the dialogue insists its a relativistic jet of gas massing the same as an ocean that’s the size of a continent).
Then we get into railguns with specs similar to RL equivalents being valid against the hull of an enemy ship. Alkeshes that supposedly operate in a support role in space firing utterly pathetic sub gigajoule shots from the very same guns they use in space.
There’s more, I’m sure. As a general rule of thumb, any science fiction with more than three works to its name will have an error margin of about six orders of magnitude, beyond five works, and it’s almost certainly at nine OoMs. Yet Halo gets called out for having absurd oscillations in observed feats. It strikes me as bizarre.
Star Wars has an error margin of ten orders of magnitude, 40K… well, let’s not go into 40K, it;s a special case(it’s about twelve OoMs if you’re wondering). The Culture varies between ship engines with 1% the output of a small star being considered big and awesome, to having bombs smaller than the eye can see that blow up planets(or having smaller varients of the aforementioned engine blow up planets).
The idea that bizarre variations in firepower is something the Halo has a lead in is compeltely unfounded.
“Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of these nuts who outright denies the existence of canon material such as the ICS or ME Codex, I just treat canon on a case by case example which I usually resolve if given enough time (such as the 8km to 19km Executor); as of now, I’m referring to the Encyclopedia as my own personal “The Die is Cast”.”
I tend to ignore the Encyclopedia, I just like to use it when I detect someone trying to use the high ends of the Sci-Fi they support, whilst attempting to use the low ends for Halo.
Although, there are some details it provides that make more sense, the Covenant using AM/M reactions makes more sense than them using fusion. For example.
Don’t misinterpret me, whilst I do point out the discrepancies in Halo it is in no way a slight against the franchise specifically or that of any other, it just so happens that in this particular instance we are in fact discussing Halo; and to a lesser extent, Stargate, although the amount I know about the Stargate franchise would fail to even satisfy the volume the requirements of a thimble. I really just don’t care for it.
As for the AM/M reactor, whilst it does on the surface cover up any of the discrepancies conveyed by the depiction of gigaton plus and multiple thousand G acceleration events (although not truly); I shy away from declaring by fiat which one is correct on the basis that nothing in canon really supports the retcon or depicts the massive release of energy caused by rupturing vessels.
After all, Team Alpha would have had a lot more to worry about during the Battle of Reach if that puny sub-megaton football they used to violate a Covenant Cruiser managed to breech the containment field for even a ton of fuel, never mind the hundreds to possibly thousands of tons of AM needed to operate a warship that upon contact with the atmosphere, could potentially annihilate a portion of the Continent they were standing on.
“Don’t misinterpret me, whilst I do point out the discrepancies in Halo it is in no way a slight against the franchise specifically or that of any other, it just so happens that in this particular instance we are in fact discussing Halo; and to a lesser extent, Stargate, although the amount I know about the Stargate franchise would fail to even satisfy the volume the requirements of a thimble. I really just don’t care for it.”
It wasn’t directed at you specifically, I was just ranting about the hypocrisy of it all. Something I tend to do with wild abandon.
“As for the AM/M reactor, whilst it does on the surface cover up any of the discrepancies conveyed by the depiction of gigaton plus and multiple thousand G acceleration events (although not truly); I shy away from declaring by fiat which one is correct on the basis that nothing in canon really supports the retcon or depicts the massive release of energy caused by rupturing vessels.
After all, Team Alpha would have had a lot more to worry about during the Battle of Reach if that puny sub-megaton football they used to violate a Covenant Cruiser managed to breech the containment field for even a ton of fuel, never mind the hundreds to possibly thousands of tons of AM needed to operate a warship that upon contact with the atmosphere, could potentially annihilate a portion of the Continent they were standing on.”
Obviously it is all retained in a slipspace pocket. Or… magnets.
Yeah, magnets did it. The same magnets that can apprently turn around a 0.5 C plasma projectile at 10 light seconds, without any apparent light lag. They sound like they could handle it.
More seriously, I’m not too concerned about accelerations for the Covenant, as they are stated to use a reactionless drive. Which makes the work to accelerate the vessel infinite, or nothing. Depending on which impossibility you happen to prefer.
Granted, said super magnets should be more than capable of operating at full capacity, when the ship is physically intact and operational; not when its in the process of dissolving and any physical contact with even a tiny spittle of fuel in the bunker would “cook off” an area the size of New York.
The trench run on Reach, the Sentinel attack on Onyx, the Truth and Reconciliation impacting Installation-04 and the sabotage of the Deuterium refinery resulting in total destruction of seven Cruisers, all examples of Cruisers that if by any indication of conservative estimates, would have dumped enough AM upon their destruction as to split a Continent.
“Granted, said super magnets should be more than capable of operating at full capacity, when the ship is physically intact and operational; not when its in the process of dissolving and any physical contact with even a tiny spittle of fuel in the bunker would “cook off” an area the size of New York.
The trench run on Reach, the Sentinel attack on Onyx, the Truth and Reconciliation impacting Installation-04 and the sabotage of the Deuterium refinery resulting in total destruction of seven Cruisers, all examples of Cruisers that if by any indication of conservative estimates, would have dumped enough AM upon their destruction as to split a Continent.”
I never claimed it made sense, just that it made more sense than fusion power did.
But it instead just opens up even more contradictory values in the previous depiction of canon events. Sure, it aesthetically satisfies conservative Covenant firepower figures by at least slightly nudging their abilities towards the northern end of Covenant firepower estimates, but we have to seriously retcon everything that came before it as a result since the events simply make no sense.
It would have been easier just to leave the power source ambiguous and call it Hypermatter, Slipspace fusion or Covenanium.
In the end it simply becomes a canon trade-off. What we want doesn’t always make sense, and what we want to make sense just isn’t what we see.
L-W, when you talk about numbers and physics you sound like Major Carter from Star Gate
Wow, crazy match up.
I’ll leave the tech speak (since I’m currently on a slow ass computer with dialup looking up specs on ships is nearly impossible for me) to you and head to the ground combat. I’m aware it was already touched on but I may as well given my .02
For Gua uld their only saving grace would be the Kull warriors. They’re nearly invulnerable to anything ground based and will continue to fight without any kind of fear until killed or their target is gone. In this case until the Covenant were destroyed.
However by any canonincal accounts it looks like the Elites and Brutes are considerably faster and stronger than the Kull. Even with shields still less resiliant BUT they do outnumber then. And the convenant DO have hand held weapons capable of defeating the kull. It’s not shear power but instead what can get through the threads of their suits: needlers.
After only a handful of ground engagements the covenant would learn and employ the needlers widespread. Given that darts were the only thing (and a special energy weapon but not readily accessible by the cov) to get past the kull suits and that these tiny darts were highly explosive it’d probably end up with a quick victory for the Covenant.
Now, gentleman (and any rare ladies on this site) continue with the tech discussion for the ships.
So why was it so difficult to figure out shield strength on Gua’uld ships…? Couldn’t we just take a ship battle and calculate how long it took to punch through the shields? We already have staff weapons energy output at 200mt per shot. Which is honestly pretty impressive considering the rate of fire on said weapons.
“We already have staff weapons energy output at 200mt per shot. Which is honestly pretty impressive considering the rate of fire on said weapons.”
Even more so now that the Covenant have been nerfed into medium kiloton-low megaton ranges. That’s a few orders of magnitude of difference there.
Also, if we’re treating Goa’uld height of power as during Anubis’ reign, they’ve also got Anubis’ mothership (with the Eyes of the Goa’uld; capable of wiping out all life on a planet in 1 shot and destroying severa ha’taks at once with each individual shot. Also capable of taking quite the bomardment before dying).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KceLudMu_I0&feature=related (2:11 – 2:32)
Note that that battle didn’t even break through the Mothership’s shields.
The battle at the very end of the video, where the Mothership is destroyed, is different. At that point it had lost the Eyes (and therefore the superweapon it uses in the first battle), but the atmosphere was interfering with its shields (note how some shots go right through the shield while it’s still up).
CIDE already covered the Kull Warriors, although I don’t know if a regular Needler shot would go through the weave of the suit. The fragments once it explodes certainly, but those ‘needles” look pretty big. And then there’s the actual armour plates to consider; Needlers aren’t the most precise weapons.
Then there’s Anubis’ Asgard technology, which he can use for rapid attacks on land and unshielded space positions (via Beaming), or even as a weapon (as Thor does in Thor’s Hammer in Season 2). If there’s an aspect of Covenant technology he wants to know more about (like, say, Slipspace), he’s got mind probes that will literally rip it out if his target’s mind (he uses one on Thor to get what he needs to make the aforementioned Asgard beaming tech).
Then there’s Anubis himself. With no Ancients to worry about, he can use his Ascended powers willy-nilly, and there’s no way for the Covenant to actually kill him.
This isn’t even going into other things like Goa’uld cloaking (which seems different from Covenant cloaking), use of the Stargates themselves (like for Time Travel, as per Ba’al in Continuum), or Nirrti’s Gene Sequencer and Hok’Taur.
Goa’uld for FP award due to superior ships, superior adaptibility, a planet-killing superweapon, an unkillable (for the Covenant, at least) half-Ascended leader, and time travel.
the banshe aint the main covenant fighter
“CIDE already covered the Kull Warriors, although I don’t know if a regular Needler shot would go through the weave of the suit. The fragments once it explodes certainly, but those ‘needles” look pretty big. And then there’s the actual armour plates to consider; Needlers aren’t the most precise weapons.”
I said ‘maybe’ given the weapons design. Even if it doesn’t penetrate it may still POTENTIALLY get stuck in the weave. kind of unlikely considering they’re like a bunch of sharpened sharpy markers in size. But that seemed like the most likely candidate.
“Then there’s Anubis himself. With no Ancients to worry about, he can use his Ascended powers willy-nilly, and there’s no way for the Covenant to actually kill him.”
Not to mention his genetic clones that have all of his memories and crazy ancient pre-ascension psi powers. Without SGC in the way he can make even more. Granted, think he’d eventually find it useful to NOT make them his clones considering they’d eventually want to usurp him and either implant a safeguard or make a bunch of loyal psychic generals.
“This isn’t even going into other things like Goa’uld cloaking (which seems different from Covenant cloaking), use of the Stargates themselves (like for Time Travel, as per Ba’al in Continuum), or Nirrti’s Gene Sequencer and Hok’Taur.”
Ba’al is still active under Anubis’ reign and as it stands now would actually be alligned with him in this fight. Nirrti had a gene sequencer but Anubis is the one with complete knowledge of it considering his half-ascended status. Granted, she still had considerable success with it on her own.
“Goa’uld for FP award due to superior ships, superior adaptibility, a planet-killing superweapon, an unkillable (for the Covenant, at least) half-Ascended leader, and time travel.”
Seconded.
“the banshe aint the main covenant fighter”
Yeah, it’s the Seraph. Really doesn’t change much as it stands now though.
Covenant win, heres a list of covenant infantry:
hunters
grunts
elites
brutes
jackals
now hers goa’uld infantry:
Jaffa
“Covenant win, heres a list of covenant infantry:
hunters
grunts
elites
brutes
jackals
now hers goa’uld infantry:
Jaffa”
Epic fail is epic.
Read. The. Thread.
So… uhh… Goa’uld for FP award then? It’s been said earlier but just in case it needs to be stated again, the Goa’uld have:
The ability to infiltrate every level of the Covenant, with only the Hunters and maybe Drones being immune to their bodysnatching-ness.
Superior ships, the weakest of which (barring fighters and bombers) puts out a low-end 200 megatons per shot from each of its 60 guns, carries 12 wings of fighters and 3 wings of bombers, and has shields that can tank gigatons undamaged and survive in the Corona of a star for a few hours (or for 50 minutes without their shields up), and when unshielded can take several of the aforementioned 200 megaton shots before exploding.
Have teleportation technology.
Have cloaking on tel’tacs (transports), al’keshs (bombers), and ha’taks (mass-produced capital ship).
Capable of time travel.
Capable of cloning, and giving said clones psychic powers including telepathy and telekinesis.
Their flagship can wipe all life off a planet with one shot.
Have a leader with crazy powers that the Covenant have no way to kill (even the Halo Rings themselves probably won’t get him).
Only thing the Covenant have is their single Halo Ring, which they can’t move and can only use as a defence (which would also result in their own deaths, so more a ‘taking you with me’ weapon I guess) and won’t be enough to finish off the Goa’uld.
Covies also have ground superiority (at least until there’s swarms of Kull Warriors and Anubis’ psychic clones traipsing about), but that’s not going to do them much good if they can’t win in space.
So… again, +1 Goa’uld.
Oh, uh, sorry for the double post, but I realize how viciously Halo fans will defend their chosen series, so I can cite any and all of that upon request.
“Covenant win, heres a list of covenant infantry:
hunters
grunts
elites
brutes
jackals
now hers goa’uld infantry:
Jaffa”
well now that reach is out lets get a more detailed list of covie infantry types
grunts
elite minors
elite officers
elite spec-ops
elite rangers
elite generals
jackals
jackal snipers
skirmishers
hunters
brutes
brute officer
brute captian
brute chieftan
buggers
enginers
and scarabs(there super heavy infantry i heard)
“well now that reach is out lets get a more detailed list of covie infantry types…”
Not that your effort isn’t appreciated, but how would this help the Covenant, exactly? Having a variety of ground soldiers (not all of which would necessarily be useful here. Looking at you, Grunts) doesn’t change the fact that the Goa’uld can slap around the Covenant in space and then just bombard any ground forces from orbit (they do it all the time in the show). Hell, Anubis’ Flagship can just shoot a beam of energy at a planet and within a few minutes exterminate all life on it. And unlike the Halos the Goa’uld have the capability of bringing this to the Covenant.
Ack, sorry for yet another double post, but I just remembered that the Covenant need a human to fire Halo in the first place, so now it’s even more useless than before.
They’d have to get into Goa’uld territory and kidnap one of their human slaves, then get out again without being blown up.
Also, just remembered that height of Anubis’ reign meant he had a functional Dakara, so now the Goa’uld are sitting on a weapon even more dangerous than the entire Halo network, as opposed to the Covenant’s single Ring.