Star Wars Vs Halo

Star Wars Vs Halo

MAJOR universe match up here. With much discussion already happening in the Master Chief vs Darth Vader post, it’s very clear that this battle would be nothing short of epic.

With soo many variables such as The Force, The Forerunners and their technology, which of these universes would emerge victorious?

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3,706 Comments on "Star Wars Vs Halo"

  1. WTFMACHINE October 15, 2008 at 9:20 pm -      #1


    D E A D DEAD

  2. swifterdeath October 15, 2008 at 9:58 pm -      #2

    dude…are you a idiot or something WTFMACHINE…if earth wouldent protect then please tell me how when the rings hwere first lit then how did everyone on earth at the time live?…i can easily prove you that one ^_^…as well who would control the scarabs?…hmmm lets see…the flood? yea that seems fair

    and alpha ill get back to you (if im wrong yeah im wrong) but i know they can produce them really quickly as it would be simple for normal sentinal there weak as hell…not that hard to create one with a large factrory <.< so yeah ill be back on that to give it to you or even if im wrong there are still billions upon billions of sentinels…

  3. swifterdeath October 15, 2008 at 10:08 pm -      #3

    ok ive seen it read ghosts of onyx it says that the factorys build a new sentinel every six seconds…so imaging an normal sentinel which is far less weaker…you would put it down to yea a sentinel a second pretty much…and the onyx sentinels would probably be on other shild worlds to (which im pretty sure there are more of) and then you know…yeah htey would murder since if a star wars ship got close to onyx (if we consider it still around) then hte sentinels would come together and blast it to pieces (but that totally varies if they think its empty and want to use it as a base or they just blow it to pieces)

    and a ewok would havea abetter chance of destroying a onyx sentinel then a clone commando completly because the clone commando wont use spears and rocks =P and will continue to use there normal weapons intill there dead since im sure the shield would protect from any EMP

    but yeah thats all for me for tonight i GTG

  4. AlphaCommando October 15, 2008 at 10:13 pm -      #4

    However that is mere speculation, even the Halo 3 connection is theoretical (though I do agree with it) as Bungie was never came forward and made that connection explicitly in any canon materiel…yet. But as it is not, you can’t go around spitting out theories with minimal evidence. Now while the Halo 3 Scarab/Hunter connection does have some evidence, the Halo 2 Scarab/Hunter one doesn’t outside the fact that it still dances around even when everything in dead inside and that is really non even relevant due to the fact that all of that is scripted….

    Please think before you post in all caps like a monkey….

  5. WTFMACHINE October 15, 2008 at 10:17 pm -      #5

    George lucus would probably enter the fight and part the two universes and send down lightning bolts at halo, since george is more of a god than a movie director.

  6. AlphaCommando October 15, 2008 at 10:19 pm -      #6

    You are far less capable than making an argument than swifterdeath, sure you are on our side but that won’t keep me from berating you for being an idiot….

    SO;…WTFMACHINE, you’re being an idiot….I feel happy now :). I needed to get that daily insult out.

  7. AlphaCommando October 15, 2008 at 10:33 pm -      #7

    Well, ok then, we have evidence as to the production abilities on Onyx (just Onyx), and I’m actually kinda glad for some reason….However; given these guys are strong but their in-space combat abilities against a fleet of energy spewing ships is debatable…..And since we have no other evidence of how many other shield worlds there are…get my point. I have no doubt that the sentinels of Onxy are tough, but not only is their firepower against, say; a SD fleet, but we have no evidence that Sentinels can actually enter slipspace or for the most part, even leave a planet’s gravity well (something I just thought of). Thus, no matter how many a planet can churn out, it won’t affect the battle at large as they are just stuck flying around where they where produced….

    Plus about the shield thing, it never says that the sentinels of Onyx have protection against energy weapons, and from the given data from the games how well normal sentinels stand up to energy weapons they are far weaker. But as there is no data to support how well the Onyx sentinel’s shields protect them against energy we must fall back one what we do know; thus making sentinels far weaker against the highly propagated blaster/laser cannons/turbolasers of the SW universe….Also the massive range of ship-mounted weapons on SW ships probably gives them a huge advantage when combined with this weakness speculation…..

  8. Just A Gamer October 15, 2008 at 10:58 pm -      #8

    Swifterdeath.. Genius, you do realize that if the rings were real Earth is within the blast range. The rings take out all sentient life in the galaxy, specificaly the Milky Way, our galaxy.

    Oh and also its called sarcasm, the ring don’t have to be real for it to be a good joke.

  9. Foxwolf October 15, 2008 at 11:05 pm -      #9

    dude leave him alone, he’s only tring to prove his point to the @$$es those named of hotshot and swfterdeath. yea i’m his friend, if at all possible your the idiot in this.

  10. Foxwolf October 15, 2008 at 11:07 pm -      #10

    we both use the same e mail address

  11. Foxwolf October 15, 2008 at 11:12 pm -      #11

    sometimes we switch user names, right now i think he’s now using both of my user name, i ‘m not much of an internet person. i gave him my acc name foxwolf, the screen name i use, but he uses it more, and we don’t share the same e mail i forgot to change his e mail address to mine.

  12. WTFMACHINE October 15, 2008 at 11:17 pm -      #12

    thnx, for now on i may use foxwolf, so if all at possible don’t say anything or do any thing, i don’t know what the hell i’m saying, it’s late at night, and just had pizza.

    how bout this the winner of the fight is


    or i’ll probably not use foxwolf.

  13. L-W October 15, 2008 at 11:52 pm -      #13

    I was also considering entering the Biomed industry, but like you I was practically a slave to my genes. Both my Father and Grandfather were Aeronautic engineers at various points in my nations history, my Grandfather working primarily with the RAF Spitfire platforms in WWII; so I have a sort of jignostic pride as towards my lineage.

    Funny how these things work.

    Currently I’m in the process of designing a stability hilt cockpit in fighter planes, the purpose being to reduce the physical effects of inertia upon the human body, which has proven to be a major burden for female fighter Pilots. Although I’m not sure Male pilots would approve more Women pilots in the skies 😆

    – – –

    I would also like to make a request that Hotshot never speak again, his words are a testament to human stupidity. We should consider some sort of court order.

    Now onto the matter at hand.

    – – –

    If the war was reduced to two non-organic entities duking it out for control; Droids would defeat the Sentinels easily. Take into account that not only is there variation amongst the Droid Ranks…

    (Standard Droid, Super-Battle Droids, Assassin Droids, MagnaGuards, Air battle droid, B1 battle droid, B2 super battle droid, Basilisk war droid, Dark trooper, Krath war droid, SD-series battle droid, Variable Geometry Self-Propelled Battle Droid, Mark I, YVH 1 )

    …These Droids can construct other Droids with their own self-replicating facilities, which can be constructed by Droids, which in turn…You get the picture. Also consider that all Ships, Combat Craft, and ground based Armour and Terrestrial units can be piloted by Droids just as easily, you still have a functioning war machine. In the absence of all organic beings, Droids could easily continue the war with the same Zeal.

    – – –

    The blast radius of each individual Halo only covers a small percentage of the total area of the Orion galaxy, they must be combined in a single strike as to prove effective on any galactic scale. Even Guilty Spark states that:

    “all sentient life within three radii of the galactic center died”.

    This means that for the Halo Rings to wipe out an entire Galaxy, from one outer radii to the other, would require somewhere within the figure of 36 seperate Rings amplifying the radius of destruction. I’ve done the mathematics; and it all adds up.

    Considering that the Star Wars universe takes up five known Galaxies (That we only know of), it would take 180 Rings placed in strategic positions to accomplish the total destruction of the Star Wars universe. 180 Rings. What are the chances they could utilise *THAT* many?

    By the way, I just owned you with fundamental physics.

    – – –

    “thats a load of bull! the sentinels will be produced 10x as fast the droide factorys will output hundreds upon hundreds of droids per minute”

    The Imperial Forges, which there are hundreds available, can produce thousands of Droids, Tanks and Air Craft within minutes. They can also replicate one unmanned Capital ship on the hour.

    Trillions of Sentinels produced, add one Ion Cannon from a Cruiser = Trillions of Sentinels turned to scrap within nano-seconds. Despite being overwhelmed by superior Droid replication techniques, Sentinels also suffer from the overwhelming firepower of Star Wars craft which they can never match unless they were numbered in the millions; and that only makes them easy targets for heavy weaponry.

    – – –

    “and all the powerful people have to do is hide on earth wanna know why? because thats a shield world!!!! so yeah halo would still have sentient life!!!”

    So are you saying that the Halo universe would withdraw EVERY one of their veritable Military forces to one Shield World? Again; are you really that stupid?

    One shot from a single Cruiser, one Hyper-Drive strike from the opposite end of the Galaxy, just one Plasma Burst from the Ion Cannon and the entire Planet is turned to dust. Instant game over for Halo forces. The Rings will ONLY kill whatever resides within the Orion Arm, which are mostly Halo based Planetary systems. Once they’ve commited themself to one Planet then they may as well say goodbye, as it only takes one Battlegroup to get within range of the Sol solar system and they’ve lost.

  14. L-W October 16, 2008 at 12:04 am -      #14

    “hahaha eight yeah thats funny you would seem more like that since i can pretty much shoot down everything you say…L-W and alpha i cant shoot down everything isay… i can only conter argue with something -.- there much better then me at this kind of stuff (by a long shot) i would have a better chance against them if they wernt as smart….(darn you alpha and L-W) and i dont mean for them being dumb so i can easily outsmart them i mean so they dont put in the matter of physics or whatever”


    You are beyond resonable doubt, THE most pathetic debater I’ve ever come across. The only person worse than you here is Hotshot; and I sincerely doubt he has a functioning Brain.

    We’re presenting empirical proof postulated by observed fact. Using science is not our way of “tricking” you, we’re simply presenting a decent, well rounded and eloquant argument. Not meandering ideas based on Childish fantasies.

  15. L-W October 16, 2008 at 12:19 am -      #15

    Third time for now.

    “in one of your post l-w you said that there isn’t anything of intrest for sw in halo.WRONG,the star forge needs a star to create armys,”

    I said Terrestrial Targets you moron. Terrestrial meaning Planet-bound combat within, above or below the surface of a Planet, using combined Infantry, Armour and Air units.

    The Sun would not be a contested area; and I doubt there would be major fleet deployments to protect a Star alone. One the Forge has Hyper-Jumped in and latched onto a Star, the rest goes downhill for whatever enemy forces occupy nearby Planetary systems.

    Aside from the fact that very few Ships would be ready to engage in combat so close to the surface of a Star (Seraph, Longsword and all smaller ships would be crushed or totally irradiated), the Forge can easily continue to replicate one Capital ship after the next, providing a veritable deffensive and offensive fleet RESISTANT to the effects of orbiting a Star. Then it’s only a case of moving these units towards the enemy and crushing them.

    “you underestimate halo to much”

    I understand the capabilities of both forces perfectly, my predictions are correct to a limited degree of fallibility.

  16. AlphaCommando October 16, 2008 at 12:31 am -      #16

    Seems my family was on the wrong side of the war (I was born in Germany, live in the US, go ahead an say it….), almost anyone of age in my family served in the war effort at the time (we have as much a military heritage as a flying one)…Most where tankers, one was a Soldat, one was an SS Sergent, and one, my Great, Great Grandfather was a Luftwaffe ME 109 pilot, my grandfather and father where/are aeronautical engineers, although my dad was originally a commercial airline pilot…Although my Grandfather and Great Great Uncle (one of the tankers) always spoke fondly of the RAF (he was shot down more than once by a Spitfire) and Royal Canadian Artillery Regiments; respectively…

    Anyway family aside, The radians thing never even crossed my mind (=holy fat sacks of crap!), but I ran it through and it seems right. However; this would technically mean that even the forerunner empire wasn’t even at full galactic power when the flood attacked, wow; the Halo universe is even more borked than I realized…..

    Also as L-W said; Ion Cannon = Win vs. Sentinels

    Also; Foxwolf; explain to me how I am the dumb one here, please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom….

  17. L-W October 16, 2008 at 2:52 am -      #17

    Talk about paths crossing on a reverse four dimensional axis! I guess we have more in common than I originally thought.

    – – –

    The great thing about the fact that only seven Rings were activated (When more were needed to erradicate the Galaxy), it suggests one or two things:

    1) The Forerunners would only target strategic points where the Populations were centred.

    2) They still took up only a very small portion of the total Galaxy; not even expanding beyond the Orion system itself.

    3) The construction of Rings were vastly limited and still in a primitive stage of Forerunner assembly. Consider that Rings still require the anchorage of nearby Gas Giants and an orbital speed vastly faster than most Planets, suggests that term Ring “World” was a half truth.

    It’s apparent the Rings are just as ‘Artificial’ as the Death Star.

  18. hotshot October 16, 2008 at 11:19 am -      #18

    Oh i won’t to debate but i have no time ,so i’m back tomorrow

  19. swifterdeath October 16, 2008 at 11:27 am -      #19

    ok L-W i havea few things to say…and most of them are proving what you hwere saying invalid…

    and alpha a thing for you as well…ill say for you first…here is a few quotes

    “The Onyx Sentinel also has anti-gravity technology, similar to that of the Covenant. Although the Onyx Sentinel can even reach escape velocity and fly into outer space” so yes they can go out of space…

    ” One of their primary advantages, is a gold-colored Energy Shield that is entirely resistant to all projectiles, even the rockets of the SPNKr Launcher and LOTUS Mine detonations” so i dont think plasma is that bad of a worry to them (yes it may do more damamge…but im pretty sure it can last)

    “It is also very adaptive, each Sentinel transmitting its combat footage to an unknown intelligence that continually upgrades Onyx Sentinel combat algorithms” meaning they can adapt to a fight

    “Enough Onyx Sentinels (about 45) can even vaporize a large starship with apparent ease.” so tell me with a planet containing trillions of these do you really think it would be that hard to destroy things…(and dont worry yes onyx was destroyed (not sure if where playing off that) but there are still many sentinels stil alive (clusetered in the core i beleive or soemthing like that) so im sure they could recreate a few sentinel factorys for them…and if they can survive the explosion that happened im very sure there shields can withstand a ion cannon…as im sure hte worst that could happen would be a few billion going down and about a trillion more losing htere shields and weaponry for a few days…which if 45 can take down a large covenant ship….then oh no for star wars if the sentinels get to close (im figuring about 500 of them put together could rip a whole strait through the deathstar…and then a while past.

    “We’re presenting empirical proof postulated by observed fact. Using science is not our way of “tricking” you, we’re simply presenting a decent, well rounded and eloquant argument. Not meandering ideas based on Childish fantasies.” i am simply stating as you are very much more smarter then me it takes a few times to read some of your long posts and by the time im done reading them ive forgotten some (due to short term memory loss) and therefore it kind of messes me up

    and yes consider if you put my smarts next to yours yes id be qualified as a bumbling idiot but i am quite smart for me…just no hwere near as smart as you.

    “Considering that the Star Wars universe takes up five known Galaxies (That we only know of), it would take 180 Rings placed in strategic positions to accomplish the total destruction of the Star Wars universe. 180 Rings. What are the chances they could utilise *THAT* many?

    By the way, I just owned you with fundamental physics.”

    sorry to spoild your fun but the ark can output a ring in a matter of days or weeks…(not sure) meaning they could easily strategicly put the rings in thsoe areas given enough time (meaning a couple of years which im sure they could get)

    “Aside from the fact that very few Ships would be ready to engage in combat so close to the surface of a Star (Seraph, Longsword and all smaller ships would be crushed or totally irradiated), the Forge can easily continue to replicate one Capital ship after the next, providing a veritable deffensive and offensive fleet RESISTANT to the effects of orbiting a Star. Then it’s only a case of moving these units towards the enemy and crushing them.”

    ok lets just have a covenant flagship sit back blasing the forge to nothing…as it does not need to be that close and could simply sit back and wait for the forge to be destroyed…

    “You are beyond resonable doubt, THE most pathetic debater I’ve ever come across. The only person worse than you here is Hotshot; and I sincerely doubt he has a functioning Brain.”

    yes i find it hard to believe im the worst…or even second worst if ive been able to prove you wrong o nseveral occasions while other people simply come on state there opionion or use stupididty and no real awnsers to state there points
    (like on the darth vader vs. MC the chances of MC being immune to hte force (as its the only way to win) is only a little bit above suddenly gaining the force!) and yet people still say MC would win (its a bettle hw wasent made to win…)

    “I would also like to make a request that Hotshot never speak again, his words are a testament to human stupidity. We should consider some sort of court order.”

    yes i kind of agree at that point <.<…he just making halo look worse

    “Swifterdeath.. Genius, you do realize that if the rings were real Earth is within the blast range. The rings take out all sentient life in the galaxy, specificaly the Milky Way, our galaxy.

    Oh and also its called sarcasm, the ring don’t have to be real for it to be a good joke.”

    idiot you do realise earth is immune to the affect! as i stated before the rings went off when humans where on earth before but hte portal to the arks didnt allow them to be destroyed because the forerunners wanted the humans to be there successors (you know thats why only humans can activate the rings…)

    “So are you saying that the Halo universe would withdraw EVERY one of their veritable Military forces to one Shield World? Again; are you really that stupid?”

    im pretty sure this staement was for that if the rings where to be in the range for everyone to die in every galaxy that the best guys would go to earth…seeing as they would be safe when hte rings went off every wehre (as this meant in the star wars glaxys to) in which i stated would not be the hardest thing if the ARK was around then they could do that and be safe…

    well my fingers hurt from typing…and my neck hurts from its positiong so im gonna be off for a while

  20. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 12:00 pm -      #20

    ok heres an end to the on going debate, compare the amount of main characters to starwars, compare the weapons used in halo to all the weapones in starwars, compare the amount of merchandise used in both.

  21. swifterdeath October 16, 2008 at 1:15 pm -      #21

    “ok heres an end to the on going debate, compare the amount of main characters to starwars, compare the weapons used in halo to all the weapones in starwars, compare the amount of merchandise used in both.”

    so your saying if something sucks but has more main characters and more merchindise then star wars that the game is better?…yeah it dosent work like that idiot

  22. AlphaCommando October 16, 2008 at 5:04 pm -      #22

    ”One of their primary advantages, is a gold-colored Energy Shield that is entirely resistant to all projectiles, even the rockets of the SPNKr Launcher and LOTUS Mine detonations” so I don’t think plasma is that bad of a worry to them (yes it may do more damage…but I’m pretty sure it can last)

    Given, yes; however, we have no canon to go on about that, IE; null argument. Combined with the fact that they have never shown slipspace capabilities make them not worth mentioning.

    I have something to say, if there is no cannon to support a claim you can either nullify using it, or just fall back on what we do know extrapolated….which would make these Onyx Sentinels vulnerable to energy based damage (seeing as how all forerunner tech seems to show vulnerability to plasma)

    Next, the Ark may be able to churn out all those rings (in most likely weeks)…however; you forgot one extremely critical aspect of superengineering; the resources to make them. Even if the Halo universe found some way to trick the Ark into producing more than the required 7 rings (of which I doubt), they would have to find more resources, the amount of resources to produce a ring is titanic, almost beyond human comprehension. Seeing as how there is a resource planet at the center of the Ark providing the materials with which to make the Rings, we can assume that one planet would provide a few rings…and with no foreseeable way (and no canon data) to get a new planet at the center (or to bring that many resources to the ring)….poof, you only get half-a-dozen new rings, tops.

    About the Star Forge, the heaviest Covie weapon (and longest ranged) has a range of about 500,000 kilometers, a Covie capital would be a molten slab before it got within even 4 times its weapon ranges, the heat of the star alone would melt it to scrap. Given a miracle of God that these ships could survive being that close, the forge becomes the proverbial “immovable object” once latched to a star, this combined with the ability to chrun out its own fleet in days, and the fact that it is bristling with weapons would make any attack on it the dream of a mad man.

  23. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 6:05 pm -      #23

    no retard, i was saying that in merchandise. that includes movies, books, action figures, comics, props, and stuff like that.

    did you know that the orginal luke skywalker lightsaber is at the space station. they said they were goning to realease the lightsaber into space or something.
    let me think huh, ya halo doesn’t have that much of impact on people. in addition halo will never have a movie because it cost too much, i don’t have time to put a like to wikipedia so check it out your self. type in halo for the search and go to movie. Plus movies based off of video games suck, you might like it cause your just that much of a halo geek.

    compare the merchandise and the mony spent to see star wars and mony spent on people buying halo
    cost for box office for star wars: see next post

  24. marche October 16, 2008 at 6:20 pm -      #24

    its funny how long this has gone on,seeing as its already been proven that the empire owns space and air and thats really all they need.

  25. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 6:24 pm -      #25

    released: 5/25/1977

    movie name: Star Wars episode IV A New Hope

    First weekend: $1,554,475

    U.S Gross: $460,998,007

    World wide Gross: $797,900,000

    Total: $1,260,452,482

    Released: 5/21/1980

    Movie: Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

    First weekend: $4,910,483

    U.S. Gross: $290,271,960

    Worldwide Gross: $534,200,000

    Total: $829,382,443

    Released: 5/25/1983

    Movie: Star Wars Episode VI: Return Of the Jedi

    First weekend:$23,019,618

    U.S. Gross: $309,205,079

    Worldwide Gross: $572,700,000

    Total: $904,924,697

    Total for 4-6: $29,94,759,622

  26. marche October 16, 2008 at 6:29 pm -      #26

    you know the halo tech branch never made sense to me,they can travel through space and made spartan.then they made a warthhog which looks like a downgrade from a HMV,not to mention the guns used in halo has made very little change(bullets are you serious?)surely with covie tech they could’ve at least made better weapons.
    come to think of it the spartans are more 22nd or 23rd century.

  27. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 6:55 pm -      #27

    Halo 1 couldn’t even top that with a poor $3 million in the first WEEK, ya it took five days for halo 1 to reach that when it took star wars ep 4 two days to reach $1,554,475, do the math. it took halo 1 to manage $42,851.43 a day for for 7 days
    if star wars had a 1 week stand it would end up with $5,440,662.5 a day for seven days.

    here’s how i did it.

    first divide 3 mill into seven. that’s your daily mony. since it already as been in the week form.

    second divide 1554475 by 2 and you get 777237.5 for the star wars 1 day sales

    then multiply that by seven to get 5,440,662.5. for 1 week

    i’m not even going to waist my time telling you the difference in that two total 1 week sales

    since that SW did it in 2 days you had to divide the total by those days to get one day then you multiply that answer by7 for the week, encluding the week ends for both halo and SW.
    This is halo 1 and SW ep 4.

  28. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 7:23 pm -      #28

    sites used for starwars none, already know it, printed the graph off of this website

    for halo wiki. please let me know when your IQ become higher than that of Rock.

    And come on, L-W, Alpha, do you know better than to pick a fight with a 16 year old. how old are you guys in you mid 20’s i’m guessing. trust me, it makes you guys look retarted when picking a fight with a person still in highschool or middle school. so basically the wisdom here is that you guys like to pick fights with kids younger than you are. you may have the physics and a new complex math algarithm figured out, but apparently it was unwise, and not smart of you to take a course of action leading you to fight with a 16 year old.

    do you guys know Wormhole Physics, please tell me if you do, i have been researching Wormholes and space ever since i got the concept of space (about ten years old). it’s called Stargate people, i get most of the true knowledge from shows and games i play. like Battlefeild 1942, and veitnam, as well as stargate sg1 and the history channel.

  29. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 7:56 pm -      #29

    i grow tiresome of this arguement, it is piontless to have something that the Admin should agree on what should really when based on the facts and opions of idiots who can’t seem to quite get the concept of Star Wars or halo, i should seprate myself from Imbisiles and fools on this page, please do not contact me in any way, the folloup comment e mail button is switched off, if you decide to make remarks of any of the stuff i had said above, i would be gladly post a comment on how stupid you guys really are for not asking the admin for help, if all at possible try to vote on it. get it overwith. the point being is that for hotshot and swifterdeath, halo is better than starwars, for the ‘supergeniouses’ just find somebody else to take your brainy, pale -sit-in-front-of-the-pc-all-day skin, out on. please just get it overwith, soon somebody’s gonna get hurt over this, and that’s just retatred. For the supergenouses, try to have a little fun, don’t just think of science as a religion and should be praised. Live be active, if so then just stay away from this arguement and debate if you don’t have anything that could be inspireing to say. I think the porpouse of this site is to have fun and see those who post their opoins on here, it’s not a science convention, or a science fair. my point being is that all of you need help. Halo is a good game, and Star Wars is a good movie.

    Let me tell you something, i came to this site because all other sites have people who think they’re smarter than every one else. Those kinds of people make those sites turn ugly real fast. then they make it to some fact giving site when it was origanally a place to place your thoughts on it for every one to know what you think. if i was the admin, i would ask you guys to keep the “math, and science” part down to a minimal, example, the cost estamate for the post i put for the movie total. that way you don’t have to add this is a frikin 72 page math problem, and every one has to see it because we just graduated collage.

    so i ask you Admin, please, please, please figure out which is the winner here, and say that the losing univers had put up a great arguement.

    a side note: do not mock me on this post, please iff all at possible, do not quote me and use it against me, i don’t really like it when my ideas get shot down like that. try posting it like “oh yea, i never really thought of that, all i’m saying is that…blah…blah….blah” or “that was a really good post, but try concider the fact of blah blah blah.” maybe try using the other posts, when you quote them, as ways of helping your arguement not insulting the person of that post. swifterdeath, that maybe hard for you, and i have no doubt in my mind that you won’t turn this post into a tool of insulting me. but try doing it in a way that could be less hurtful and insulting to the other people on ths post.

  30. L-W October 16, 2008 at 8:42 pm -      #30

    That was your numero uno attempt at proving me wrong? Jesus, I almost have no real justification in teasing you anymore, because your entire post is nothing but self-parody and deprication to the point that I almost feel sorry for you.

    So, here we go…

    *Cracks Knuckles*

    1) Ant-Gravitational technology is not the equivelant to space travel. First you require steerage, otherwise you would still become prone to massive gravity wells in a vaccum. Second you need to generate an Escape Velocity, which allows you to even leave the atmosphere in the firts place. Finally you need an independent power source, not one that requires the cannibalization of Forerunner technology.

    Floating around is not the equivelant of space travel.

    So enlighten me, with all of YOUR years of Aeronautic engineering, how do you propose they do this?

    2) I’m sorry, but for someone who once claimed that a weapon could make sound in space, I canot take any of your “Scientific” postulating seriously.

    3) An Ion Cannon is not neutralized by defensive shielding, it is a transmitter beam that increases the electrical ion count in a target area. There is no shielding, no hard-wiring or no form of insulation that protects a target from a de-stabilizing build-up of ionic levels.

    Basically anything Electrical recieves a dangerous boost to its system, disabling it in a similar manner to an EMP. Since the charge is then highly conductive, it leaps from one electrical target to the next until the charge dissipates (Sometime around 1000 years later). A Planet full of Sentinels just makes them an easier target to destroy in a single strike.

    Since this weapon can be activated several lightyears from the target, how do you propose the Sentinels counter-attack?

    4) So are you saying in the number of years it would take to deploy over 180 Rings that no one in the Star Wars Universe would not notice that these large Planet-Sized rings are being strategically left in specific areas of high population density nearby large Planetary bodies?

    I’m going to say it, I cannot help but say it, it has to be done. You sir, are a complete MORON!

    One blast from an intervening Star Destroyer is enough to put a single Halo out of action, are they just going to keep manufacturing Rings only for them to be destroyed before the the final deployment is ready?

    It takes just over a month to reconstruct a Ring (Read the Halo timeline) as we can witness from the destruction of installation 04 and the subsequent remake. Even then the Ring was cited as being ‘immature’, thus possibly taking another month to enter a stage of full destructive capacity.

    To create 180 Rings, would require 360 months of full labour, which totals to 30 full years of construction. 30 YEARS. And that is if the Imperials don’t intervene at all. Even if the Imperials destroyed a third of every deployment, it could take a Century of construction just to get the right amount necessary to cuase any damage.

    In 30 years the Imperials could conquer the Halo universe 11,000 times over (I did the Mathematics once again).

    So stop using the Rings as an argument, we’ve proven how wrong you are on WAY too many occasions.

    5) The Forge generates solar shielding when latched onto a star, which dissipates most strikes upon contact, kinetic or otherwise. Even if that were not enough, the defensive proton beam projector and the full fleet of Capital Ships attached on guard duty would be more than enough to defeat that Covenant Cruiser with ease; and any number of Capital ships that decide to enter the fray.

    (Since we’ve proven how a SD is superior to Covenant ships)

    Once full-blown production begins, no amount of Covenant intervention can stop it. As we’ve proven, Star Wars craft are superior to that of the Covenant, once they begin to churn out Capital Ships every hour, there is no hope for a succesful counter-attack.

    6) I dare you to cite even one instance where we’ve been proven wrong. Take a look above, find me a quote or a particular citation where myself or Alpha were proven wrong by yourself.

    Because on almost every occasion I’ve proven how baseless your argument is with brilliant postulation. Just like now.

    7) Darth Vader has pretty much won that fight and wrapped it up in a neat little bow. Not even on THAT board you could prove us wrong, so good luck trying that here.

    8) So all the surviving forces would be on Earth? You do realise that not only have you put all of your eggs in one basket, but they’re about to be scrambled in one shot, right?

    Once the surviving Military is on one Planet, they are doomed, right?

    – – –

    Why is it all the sane, rational people are generally the ones with excellent grammar and postulation; whilst the people who support Halo seem to suffer a myriad of mental illnesses such as short term memory loss and are generally just incapable of providing a decent argument.

  31. marche October 16, 2008 at 9:11 pm -      #31

    “L-W, Alpha, do you know better than to pick a fight with a 16 year old.”

    he is kinda right,i know he is wrong but enough is are squandering your talents here.the recent comments have been filled with these arguments that are not going anywhere be cuz these guys are stubborn.
    you guys mine as well be talking to a 5 yr old.

  32. swifterdeath October 16, 2008 at 9:33 pm -      #32

    ok WTF im gonna ignore most of what you said and say one thing

    merchindise has nothing overall! this is who would win not who would seel the most!!! and yes they are making a halo movie…is already in production -.-

    and Alpha those quotes where not made by me but from halopedia…and yes the onyx sentinels can make space travel (dont ask me how i have no way in hell of knowing) read the book…

    and L-W ill give you two points ive proven you or alhpa wonrg…hmmm lets say the point where one of you said a single storm trooper could take on a elite…

    or when the claim that all you had to do was touch the bomb to deactivate it…yeah those are two times you have been proven wrong -.-

    and alpha sure there is no canon they arnt immune to plasma…but there is also none that they are…it says immune to all projectiles and in a way plasma going really fast is still a projectile…so really it cant go either way…but dont worry this goes your way any way ^_^ my source told me yes plasma can take them down it just takes a hell of a long time…

    and L-W…you really think if they all got the halo units on earth or the other shild world (as onyx isnt its just the portal to hte shield world i beleive) that they would remane there for more then a few hours?…no they would get off and enter slipspace…(which for the humans would take months to occamplish.

    and at this point im no longer fighting for halo to win (which even at the beginning i wasnet even 50% sure halo would win…at htis point im just saying that star wars will not win in a single few days or months…as the halo universe will not stay in there galaxy…once they win a few rounds in the star wars one’s then they willll simply colonize there…there are quite a few flaws in what your saying and simple ones at that…ones that even i could think htrew before saying…and yes i was wrong abouyt the mac canon thing (im still waiting for my source to tell me about that part but at this point i am going for a no) but whatever this debate is pointless…its been going on for so long that we jsut need that 40K vs star wars or halo…

  33. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 11:14 pm -      #33

    I knew it, i just new it, your intellectuallity is beyond that of a retart. you guys just go at it and at it and at it YOU GUYS MAKE NO SENCE. the only 2 rational people here is me and marche. reason, he doesn’t make retarded comments on “oh, yea the probablitiy of a flood using the force is like0.0000000014 percent, and all i care about is spelling and grammer” WELL THEN GO BE A BOOK WRITER ON HOW TO WRITE IN OLD STANDARD ENGLISH THEN. this is a website, your not supposed to have perfect grammer, as long as it’s understandable, it passes, are you gonna find where i live and beat me up because my grammer is so fracken terrible? ooh i’m soo scarred.

    Marche has a good point on “you know the halo tech branch never made sense to me,they can travel through space and made spartan.then they made a warthhog which looks like a downgrade from a HMV,not to mention the guns used in halo has made very little change(bullets are you serious?)surely with covie tech they could’ve at least made better weapons.
    come to think of it the spartans are more 22nd or 23rd century.” i agree with him, this is what the argument is supposed to be about, not just about E=MC squared type deal.

    you unwise, bag of hot air, spit out the most stupidist things ever heard by man, wait, read by man. Marche makes complete sence, he doesn’t use complicated math problems to fight his arguements, he uses what he had observed to make his arguments as do i. You guy just break out your calculators and start adding numbers togeather, your better yet shanking people with an USB drive or doing the samething with your pens from your pocket protector.

    Swifterdeath: you have just run dry of arguments, it’s time to throw in the towel it’s thru for you my ignorant friend. and he’s not the only one who is ignorant yes it’s you L-W. you think you can dazzel all of us with your science and math solving and big fancy words so you can hid the real truth that “hey halo sides got a really good point.” your just too brainy to even make a peep about it.

    i think that the admin should kick you off of here, you pile of deflated, repulsive, monkey cookie. (if you want to at least enjoy life instead of hiding behind science books and math boards, whatch the movie Speed Racer and you’ll see what a monkey cookie is. never mind, you’ll probably make some retarted comment that the cars in the film would all crash and the drivers would die)
    the only good thing that’s comming from you L-W is that you would make a really good lawyer, that’s about it.

    this argument is a pointless matter. it’s going no where. like i said people like you frack up these types of sites because you have nothing better to do in your life. heres a tip, ask out a girl, or take your wife or girlfriend to the movies and have a fancy diner afterwards. it’s what i do, i just don’t sit at a desk a work or school scribbling down answers for a 2 point homework assighnment 24/7, i actually care about my friends, and it makes me want to go hang out with them on a saturday night. it’s a helluva lot better than sitting at your pc pounding away at your keyboard arguing with a 16 year old, or trying to pick a fight with someone younger than you.
    “you guys mine as well be talking to a 5 yr old.” words from marche. there is one misspelled word in that sentence. Are you gonna go all out ape sh!t on him like you do to every one else that misspells a word? hell, i understood what he said. and to be presice i do have a mistake you so galantly typed

    “Whereas Star Wars has millions of habitable Planets and colonies spread over multiple Galaxies, with most of them containing some form of civilization or other.”

    star wars has only 5 galaxies, differnet planets yes, galaxies no. heres a hint the outer part of the sing galaxy is called the out rim, middle rim and core worlds from there. and one more i have found not millions of inhabitable, only a few habitable, we’re not for certain that there are more worlds in the star wars galaxies, but for now we will go with corosant, tatooine, dantooine, geonosis, kamino, falushea, koroban, nal hutta, nar shaddaa, corillea, Kashyyk, Yavin, Hoth, Mustafar, Utapow, Bespin, Mandalore, and the works, even though this isn’t an answer based off of your courrent question, this post has proven you, meatbag, wrong. 👿 😈 :mrgreen: 😐 ➡ 😯 🙂 😕 😎 😀 💡 😳 😛 :roll: 😉 😥 😮 😆 😡 🙁 ❗ ❓

  34. WTFMACHINE October 16, 2008 at 11:17 pm -      #34

    sorry it’s not beyond it’s supposed to be below (in the first sentence)

  35. L-W October 17, 2008 at 2:14 am -      #35

    Holy crap, I think I’ve just walked into the High school special education class.

    Where, oh where do I start?

    First with Swifterdeath:

    1) Considering we have no base comparison to create an analysis of Stormtroopers against Elites, we can only make base points upon what we know:

    Blasters are incredibly powerful weapons, far more so that the average Covenant Plasma based weapon. They also outnumber the Elites in the Trillions. Whether or not an Elite can defeat a Stormtrooper is debatable…

    (Certainly not the 501st Legion, who would decimate the Elites individually)

    …But can the Elites as a collective defeat the Stormtrooper Army? Certainly not. An enemy that outnumbers you by several trillion men with equatable multi-purpose weaponry is more than a match for the Elites.

    2) The Bomb itself has a Panel similar to that of most Covenant technology, indicating that it is a light based touch stimulus console. If it can be deactivated by touch alone is not knwon, but the existence of the panel certainly inidcates manual activation. As the saying goes:

    “What goes up, must come down”

    Given that Chief is capable of physically interfacing Covenant consoles, it would logically indicate some form of manual deactivation is possible as a safety standard.

    – – –

    The problem is, neither point has actually aided your argument. Elites would still be massacred by the Billions; and very few Bombs would actually be used in boarding actions.

    “at htis point im just saying that star wars will not win in a single few days or months…as the halo universe will not stay in there galaxy…once they win a few rounds in the star wars one’s then they willll simply colonize there…there are quite a few flaws in what your saying and simple ones at that”

    The Empire can quite easily manuvere several Battlegroups per Halo system within the course of a few hours, via Hyper-Space. The majority of the offensive action would be over in hours, with mass orbital bombardment from superior Star Wars weaponry destroying the greater majority of Halo forces and populations in single scorching blows.

    We’ve established that Star Wars has Naval superiority in this arena; and they’ll use it to pretty much destroy the major defensive and counter-offensive operations very quickly.

    So the main offensive action would be over in less than a day. Now the war WOULD continue for up to several months or years depending on how many refugess manage to escape the bombardment. If enough of the Navy escapes, they could form an insurgency and perform hit and run attacks upon the Empire; but the Imperial Navy still has superiority and the Halo forces would be resigned to hiding between frequent Bombardments.

    . . .

    Colonization takes YEARS. A Star Destroyer can cross the Galaxy within hours. Halo would not be going on the offensive here, they’d be resigned defensive rearguard actions, falling back as each Planet is taken forcefully by the Imperial Navy.

    Even if one Star Wars planet is lost, if they Empire felt they could be threatened, the entire Imperial Navy would be mobilized within hours. From then it would only go downhill rapidly for the Covenant. Halo has no option but to keep running here.

    – – –

  36. AlphaCommando October 17, 2008 at 2:29 am -      #36

    *Spit take, laughs hysterically, laughs until falls off chair….*

    How old are you kid? I would like to know before I open my can of worms on you for that senseless barrage….You age would help me determine if you just have no idea what you talking about or if your just plain stupid….

    Me, I’m 19; yes I said I’m nearing my masters, I am, I’ve been in college since I was about 15….

    And anyway, Speed Racer was a terrible movie; a poor kids movie at best. Nothing really good about it at all, why do you think it was so panned by critics? Also; it will be a cold day in hell before “Monkey Cooke” becomes a viable insult. Your use of it is really only a testament to your lack of maturity and thus the strength of any opinion you have.

    Most of your arguments stem from a feeling of inadequacy due to the fact that you truly can’t make a plausible or withstanding argument around us intellectuals. The big words are scaring you and you feel the only way to lash back is to see us as the inferiors and berate us for non-existent flaws…Its is a common psychological phenomena similar to rationalization during stress, I did a report on it my second year in Psych.

    Also; an incomplete (obviously, since not every planet has been listed in fiction, or even discovered for that matter) list of planets in SW for your tiny brain to wrap itself around;

  37. L-W October 17, 2008 at 2:41 am -      #37

    Now, for you WTFMACHINE.

    1) Grammar and spelling are tantamount to a decent argument, it displays not only a proper etiquette but also sufficient intelligence as to properly engage in debate. It not only gives a good impression, but also makes your posts readbale, which is precisely the point of this debate.

    I personally have no care whether or not your grammar is poor in real life. But if you choose to debate with me, then at least make your posts reasonably easy to read so that I may converse with you on a sufficient level. It not only displays decency, it may also add credibility to your points.

    2) I actually provide a reasonable observational basis behind my supposition. Rather than simply providing a single angle upon debate, I view it from all possible scenarios to form a resolute outcome.

    That is what proof is, discovering a truth by analysing all possible alternatives.

    3) Oh a nerd joke, what a witty reparte you have there. You must have been one of the ‘cool’ kids, right?

    4) I have not attempted to dazzle anyone here with anything, I’m only providing a reasonable basis for debate whilst also chatting with my man Alpha. As I’ve repeated all too often, if someone did actually present a decent point that did disprove any of mine, I would be more than happy to say:

    “Hey, good point, I never thought of it like that before”

    But so far I have not seen anything like that. The only person here who has actually dissuaded one of my arguments is AlphaCommando; and if you have the comprehension to go up and read, I often concede to that fact. Then again, Alpha is the only person to ever prove me wrong here, so I have no idea what you want. To lie?

    5) Marche is actually a pretty cool guy. But I’m not asking anyone for perfection here, we all make structual or spelling errors every so often and I myself am guilty of failing to proof the occasional error.

    But the difference is I can still *read* his posts, people can *still* read mine. I’m not here picking fights as you so eloquantly put it, but people seem to lose their tempers. I have done nothing to instigate any of this, are you sure you want to be the one caught doing just that? Think about it.

    6) Actually that last point is mine. I said multiple Galaxies, multiple meaning several or more. I was correct with that. I have no idea what you’re going about with that point, you pretty just agreed with me without realising it.

    There are millions of habitable areas in the Star Wars universe; and not those depicted in the films. The issue is whether or not they can terraform these areas; and the answer is yes.

    Even you suggest we have no re-collection as to how many Planets there are in the entire universe; and my knowledge of astronomy is enough to tell you that there are over 50 billion Solar masses alone, which as you can concieve would indicate a vast number of possibilities for an Empire capable of creating Planets themselves.

    7) I watched Speed Racer. I was a big fan of the Anime series as a child so naturally I understood the references associated with it, poor adaptation though. Not due to technical limitations, it simply failed to evoke any sense of nostalgia I could percieve, which the Wachowskis themselves should have been capable of since they themselves are great anime fans.

    Either way, average forgettable film.

    – – –

    You seem to have some emotional issues with me, or just what you percieve to be some form of archetypical figure in your life similar to myself. I’m not going to probe, since I don’t really care enough.

    But if Alpha is the one who calls you an idiot; and yet for some reason you decide to lambaste me, I would say you have some deep seated issues related to some form of anti-intellectualism possibly associated from early stigma you’ve developed.

    I do recommend you seek counciling though before someone gets hurt.

  38. El Zilcho October 17, 2008 at 4:05 am -      #38

    WTFMACHINE and Marche, there’s a reason why the UNSC’s (humans in halo) technology is wtf. Bungie made a decision to make the human weaponry (that is vehicles and guns) more like modern day weapons to give the play a stronger connection to the humans in Halo and help create the feeling that humanity was getting slaughtered.

  39. AlphaCommando October 17, 2008 at 6:37 am -      #39

    My main problem with that post is how we are being stupid, and that you state that it’s people like us who are destroying the site and need to be banned…..

    You can go on believing whatever fallacies about my social life you want, but that….

  40. WTFMACHINE October 17, 2008 at 12:05 pm -      #40



  41. marche October 17, 2008 at 4:33 pm -      #41

    ok modern times,i guess thats a good way to go but makes halo unrealistic.

  42. Galen Marek October 17, 2008 at 6:00 pm -      #42

    Lol, all right guys just chill out its just a forum.
    This is supposed to be a debate not an arguement about others social lives, I would actaully like to discuss the universal battle. Just cool it down a little bit and just don’t let it get so personal.

  43. Galen Marek October 17, 2008 at 6:01 pm -      #43

    Admin, could you help me out on this one?
    These arguements about personal lives arn’t going to get anywhere.

  44. admin October 17, 2008 at 7:12 pm -      #44

    Agreed – Boys, let’s keep the talk to universe events and how each side has one advantage over the other, or I’ll have to close this thread.


  45. L-W October 17, 2008 at 7:41 pm -      #45

    Gladly, I have been more than willing to discuss universe in previous and hopefully future posts.

    Now if something could be done about those who continue to *personally* slander Alpha and myself upon our elected real life careers and use of vocabulary; we could easily return to discussing the matter at hand.

  46. Galen Marek October 18, 2008 at 3:05 am -      #46

    Thank you admin for taking my back on this :mrgreen: .

    All right guys back to the discussion, In all honesty I have no doubt that star wars would win this universal battle. All right star wars has a major advantage, Its basic blaster is by far more powerful than 90% of the ground weapons in halo. The Star Wars universe has a major advantage even in their amount of resources and soldiers. For every soldier Halo can provide Star wars can provide 100, for every ship halo can provide star wars can provide 10. I mean you think about those statistics and halo doesn’t seem to have much chance at all. Let alone we are not even including all of Star Wars super weapons yet.

  47. That one dude October 18, 2008 at 8:35 pm -      #47

    Yeah i guess star wars wins this debate so lets move on to warhammer 40k vs starwars 🙂

  48. El Zilcho October 18, 2008 at 10:10 pm -      #48

    This goes to Star Wars
    Except for Spartans, the UNSC would pretty much be useless against star wars.
    The Covenant are very powerful, and would be able to defeat star wars ships and troops in battle, but they’re just hoplessly out numbered.

  49. L-W October 18, 2008 at 11:02 pm -      #49

    “Except for Spartans, the UNSC would pretty much be useless against star wars.”

    The 501st Legion Troopers are known to be the best of the Imperial Troops in the known Star Wars universe. Puposely bred from the most select properties available and genetically and embryonically altered from birth, the 501st have been specially augmented, specially programmed and have undergone the most vigorous Military training available before they could even walk or talk.

    Equipped with the best equipment and support, the primary purpose of the 501st was to engage in the most hostile of conflicts in the Galaxy, with a high probability of survival and victory. Very few in the Star Wars Galay know of this, but the actual purpose of breeding the 501st was for the destruction of the Jedi council; and under the orders of Palpatine, they decapitated the Jedi high command and stalked and killed the surviving Jedi order wherever they could be found.

    Man for man, the 501st can more than easily stand up to a SPARTAN Soldier in combat; but when you consider that the SPARTAN unit only have thirty members, whilst the 501st have over five hundred, things begin to start looking bleak for the UNSC’s elite troops. Very bleak indeed.

    “The Covenant are very powerful, and would be able to defeat star wars ships and troops in battle”

    In previous posts we’ve proven Star Wars Naval units to be superior to that of Halo forces. If you would just look up above you could see that just that.

    The average Star Destroyer has a far greater range than that of the average Covenant Cruiser, even the Dreadnaught is inferior to the operational capacity of your typical Star Wars Capital ship. Not only can they project more units further than Covenant forces, but weapons ranges are far greater. The longest ranged ordinance of the Covenant ship is less than 500,000Km, whilst in the case of Star Wars cruisers its measured in light-minutes. Meaning they could decimate entire fleets BEFORE the Covenant even knows that they’re being targeted.

    Also, given that a Star Destroyer can destroy the surface of a Planet in a single shot, it would stand to reason than nothing the Halo ordinance could possibly compare. As I’ve mentioned, it takes the Covenant a small fleet and several hours to glass a Planet, it takes one Star Wars ship one shot just to do the exact same thing.

    The medium range fighter such as the TIE are also superior to Covenant and UNSC craft, if you would look above Alpha and myself prove this.

  50. El Zilcho October 19, 2008 at 3:25 am -      #50

    Fair enough about the starships.

    Also, i didn’t realise 501st had genetic enhancements , i just thought they had special training to kill Jedi. Still, i doubt one 501st trooper is a match MC.

  51. AlphaCommando October 19, 2008 at 1:55 pm -      #51

    True, but when you have a legion of them as compared to like, 36 tops, then your stuck…..

  52. marche October 19, 2008 at 2:47 pm -      #52

    what do the 501’s enhancements include exactly,cuz i know spartans communication is pretty much telepathy.

  53. swifterdeath October 19, 2008 at 7:24 pm -      #53

    “True, but when you have a legion of them as compared to like, 36 tops, then your stuck…..”

    see this is where your wrong on a good and bad level…the good is there are 5 tops spartans still alive after halo 3…and i beleive only 33 survived…in which i would totally agree the 501st would murder…

    but for bad…its not like tehre limited to spartan 2’s…they had alot of spartan 3’s…unluckily i beleive msot of them died…but yeah they could make spartan 4’s just as easily…if they get about 10-15 years (in which im very positive they could find a planet far away to hide in) but even in the case not…if they get the 33 spartans they can still murder alot of people with htem…

    and about 501st mowing threw the elites… i doubt it…

    one 501’st would probably be a little worse then a elite major (this is a basic guess) a elite ultra would kill quite a few of them…and a zealot…yeah…on heroic they can probably last two plasma grenades…i know on easy they can last one…but yeah a plasma grenade will more then likely take down several sotrmtroopers if it hits on…but yeah covenant weapons arnt weak…they are quite powerful

    as well onto the ships yeah mabey they cant shoot far away…but hell if they get close they are lock on…the only thing that can really mess them up are small fast moving ships…but that is beyond the point star wars still outnumbers them…

  54. L-W October 20, 2008 at 12:55 am -      #54

    ‘what do the 501’s enhancements include exactly,cuz i know spartans communication is pretty much telepathy.”

    Basically your standard Space Warrior augmentations.

    Their genetic enhancements are quite dissimilar to that of other Clone Troopers, not only are they given expanded lifespans and shortened development periods, they are also imbued with free will and the ability to pursue a sense of individuality. Despite the fact that the Empire beats this out of them with extended training and discipline from birth onwards, it never ceases to give the legion a sense of comradery, despite the fact that they are all clones.

    Other than their denser skeletal and muscular structure, the typical 501st Trooper is augmented with various Capital class, structure enhancing grafts that are cosistently replaced and refined by nanomachines. Generally these implants also aid in improving their current sensory capacity such as occular implants and improved hearing; which even imbue the Trooper with an almost telepathic link to other Troopers thanks to the data sharing capacity of the nanites.

    Entire battle plans can be summised and executed by Legion commanders without uttering a word.

  55. hotshot October 20, 2008 at 11:50 am -      #55

    Elites are the same as spartans,reflexes;combat,….and there are billions of elites,i don’t think that the 501ste would defeat the elites
    elites are super warriors

  56. WTFMACHINE October 20, 2008 at 12:17 pm -      #56

    just close it admin, we alreadty know that star wars would already win in addition Halo is a type of game that gets outdated really fast and need s up dates such as Madden 08 and all the rest of the madden games (i have never played the madden series before. spartens have .3 second reaction time right, jedi’s can sence things before they even happen, whitch is too ate for a spartan. my point is if a jedi knows that 117 moves this way to dodge this then the jedi can throw what ever it is in the general direction of whitch the spartan is going to move. hope you can understand me. plus laser blasters is light right? and light is a helluva lot faster that ejected plasma. the 501st is the best legion ever in starwars. one more thing Cmmndr cody is bad @$$. no brute elite or grunt could stand up against him or his cammand of troopers. the elites might as well be looking at a picture of a living room and below sais ‘there are 4 ninjas in this room, try to find them’ It’s pointless.

  57. Galen Marek October 21, 2008 at 1:22 am -      #57

    I don’t even think anyone is even doubting that the winner is Star Wars anymore. Too bad though it really was an awesome discussion while it lasted.

  58. hotshot October 21, 2008 at 11:24 am -      #58

    hahahah there are other armys in sw that are stronger than the 501ste if not all armys are weaker ,are you crazy elites are warriors,professionals ,they win against the 501ste

  59. L-W October 21, 2008 at 7:19 pm -      #59

    “I don’t even think anyone is even doubting that the winner is Star Wars anymore. Too bad though it really was an awesome discussion while it lasted.”

    I’m sure Alpha and myself feel terrible about killing this discussion like a Lion to a newborn Lamb with our so far undefeated concessions.


  60. swifterdeath October 21, 2008 at 9:51 pm -      #60

    L-W im sure star wars would win but there is a chance the longer halo could survive the bigger there chances would be…if they played there cards right they could survive a while…

    “I’m sure Alpha and myself feel terrible about killing this discussion like a Lion to a newborn Lamb with our so far undefeated concessions.”

    yeah what about the points i have shot you down quite easy?…and about the darth vader post wehre you said i was only refering to alpha then called me pretty much retarded…yeah umm and you say you look at things from all views?…yeah im pretty sure you have something of a one track mind…and i would be more then glad to point out every time i can get up of proving you wrong…i would be more then happy…although i would be pointing out of alpha’s mistakes to due to hte fact as i might not remember who i posted to but im more then certain i have proven you wrong on two occasions mabey more ^_^

  61. L-W October 21, 2008 at 11:38 pm -      #61

    Please then, I implore you. Try and argue how on earth Halo will win this one. How they intend to pull victory out of the fire with a Brazen handle and go home with a trophy.

    Surviving a while is not tantamount to victory. Survival is defending enough of your own interests and making sure the enemy can never take you on again by putting them down, or doing so until they are no longer a threat.

    The Halo universe would not survive by running and hiding and hoping that a Star Destroyer ever finds them; we’re discussing victory here, not refugee tactics.

    So please, either prove how they could win or concede to mine and Alpha’s victory in proclaiming the Star Wars universe the udeniable victor.

    *Pulls out Lawn chair and cracks open a beer*

    Well, I’m waiting.

    – – –

    And you actually have not proven me wrong on any known occasion. You bought up the issue of the Bomb and the Elites Vs. Stormtroopers matter (Which were neither any of *my* points) which I’ve given an answer to in an above post; if you your short term memory can substantiate.

    If you are going to attempt to prove a person wrong, do it to the RIGHT person. I know you have issues with your short term memory, but if you took the time to read what is here and stop being so lazy (Lazy *or* stupid) you could quite easily recollect previous concessions and reiterate those in your discussion. Or at least try and remember those who you are debating with.

    So I’m sure it would make you happy to prove me wrong, because I also love it when impossible or improbable things happen to me. Such as winning the Billion Dollar Lottery, discovering Jesus was actually a Dinosaur or having the confirmative proof that string theory is the one and only true mathematical prodigy to the universe.

    But then again, what are the chances of that happening?

  62. swifterdeath October 22, 2008 at 10:19 am -      #62

    L-W…i really do beleive you have a one track mind or less…i said there was a chance…not a good chance and that chance rises the more they survive, as well they can use whatever the hell tactics they want. this is not a match where you have to go head on it is simply a battle they must fight…if they want to run away and hide for a certain amount of time to come back and fight later then they can use it all hte hell they want.

    as well here is points ive proven you wrong.

    “The Bomb itself has a Panel similar to that of most Covenant technology, indicating that it is a light based touch stimulus console. If it can be deactivated by touch alone is not knwon, but the existence of the panel certainly inidcates manual activation.” (therefore you have attempted to prove me wrong in which you are terribly wrong…) due to the fact master chief (who has alot of knowledge in the covenant) could not simply deactivate it cortana did…yes it mroe then likly is manual but would anyone in the SW universe know how to deactivate it?…yeah i highly doubt it.

    “Blasters are incredibly powerful weapons, far more so that the average Covenant Plasma based weapon. They also outnumber the Elites in the Trillions. Whether or not an Elite can defeat a Stormtrooper is debatable…”

    not very debatable…a standard elite minor would win against a storm trooper for a few selective reasons

    even though the lowest of there ranks a minor elite is still a very dangorous foe as being less powerful as a spartan two only because of lack of shield and experiance.

    a elite minor is a crack shot with a carbine and if encountered without one will most likly have a plasma rifle (which is still quite powerful)

    and they carry plasma grenades. in which if they throw it near a stormtrooper that stormtrooper best run. or he will more then likely be dead. and even if he manages to run from his area of cover to avoid the explosion he will now be in open for the elite to open fire on him or stick him with his other plasma grenade (in which the storm troopers only ability to win now is to rush the elite hoping to take him with him) now if where talking about anything above a minor…well then that storm trooper is gone…as well a ultra or zealot would take squads of storm troopers at a time. (well mabey not depends on how big there squads cuz zealots might just kill the squad off before even taking many hits)

    and the two quotes i had where both from you…meaning i did prove YOU wrong now i will await your attempt to prove me wrong on both thost points ^_^…in which isee little chance of you doing so

  63. WTFMACHINE October 22, 2008 at 12:13 pm -      #63

    ok, let’s asume an elite minor went up against a droideka, the lasers from the droid would obiterate the elite in no time.

  64. swifterdeath October 22, 2008 at 2:32 pm -      #64

    “ok, let’s asume an elite minor went up against a droideka, the lasers from the droid would obiterate the elite in no time.”

    ok lets fight with mechanicles then…

    lets put a droideka against a onyx sentinel…the onyx sentinel would melt the droideka before it could do more then a couple of blasts on him…so yeah im pretty sur ehtere covered on that part of droidekas being any problem -.-

  65. L-W October 22, 2008 at 5:54 pm -      #65

    Since my minor was history and the history of warfare, I do love a good tactical discussion. Too bad you’re such an amateur it almost hurts.

    I stated earlier in a previous post that Halo forces would run and hide after the initial massive defeat (Once again proving how little you can comprehend); but tell me this. What tactics are the Halo forces going to use fight back besides raids and insurgency tactics?

    think about this, the Empire has just passed through; they’ve destroyed most of the habitable worlds, strip-mined every star, asteroid and planet for available resources (Denying Halo forces of much needed resources) and upped patrols in the entire sector. They are now purposefully hunting down the remaining Halo forces and are more than willing to vaporise every last hole or cavern they hide in.

    What do the Halo forces do? They are resigned to whatever Planet they now hide on, they have no means of escaping (That requires resources they don’t have), they have no means of constructing or rebuilding their armed forces to even allow for the construction of a new ship (Again, resources they don’t have) and whatever they do requires them to babysit the civilians first because the world they are trapped on is now suffering from overpopulation, starvation, disease and mass civil mutiny.

    (Would the Covenant and Humans simply coexist when each species is threatened by the worst resource crisis seen in millenia?)

    So, the Covenant and humans, they could not defeat the Empire even at fulll strength when they were both cooperating. Now they are less than a shadow of their original strength (Less than single percentile), are on the verge of full-blown civil war and have no resources in which to campaign.

    Plus the Imperial Navy is now searching for them with countless ships (Both manned and unmanned), trillions upon trillions of probes, Imperial scouts, TIE fighters performing aerial reconaissance, dozens of Star Forges mass producing entire Armies, unmanned orbital Defence systems, a limitless amount of relay beacons and FINALLY the Jedi and Sith using their force sense to track them down like intergalactic Greyhounds.

    – – –

    I’m quite versed in insurgent tactics, so tell me how they fight back? Please, I’d love to hear.

    – – –

    I’ll get onto the rest of your points later in the day, when I have time.

  66. cake October 22, 2008 at 7:59 pm -      #66

    you guys are mostaly talking about empire,need to conisider the other starwars factions like yazzan vong,rebels,cis,republic,and the consortiom

    btw the flood are hostile they attack halo and starwars forces

  67. L-W October 22, 2008 at 9:51 pm -      #67

    We were discussing the other factions, we’re just proving that the Empire alone is more than enough to destroy Halo.

    If you throw in the Kwa (Like I suggested before), Halo forces would vanish, all at once, in the blink of an eye.

    – – –

    As for Swifterdeath, once again in an attempt to prove me wrong, you’ve ended up just proving how little comprehension you have:

    Whether or not Cortana was used to deactivate the bomb is null and void. My point was that the bomb *still* requires some manual input. The Covenant are the ones who need to activate and deactivate it in instances where the bomb is prematurely armed such as:

    “Sweet Halo! Who just activated this bomb!?”

    And without any Covenant internal AI mechanism, they clearly need to manually input a sequence. Whether or not the Humans or Empire can actually accomplish this I *never* once divulged. Never, so get your facts straight in future. I merely stated it was manually activated, therefore with the right stimulus, given the correct knowledge preceeding the deactivation a human could learn to deactivate the bomb.

    Learn to read in future.

    – – –

    And once again, the issue of Elites Vs. Stormtroopers…


    Learn. To. Read. This is bordering on painful. Half the time I’m not correcting you on the validity of points, I’m correcting you because you fail to even grasp what other people are saying. You are sixteen, basic literature comprehension should have established earlier in your life; somewhere around pre-school. This is just sad.

    So here we go.

    I never debated how well an inidividual Stormtrooper could do against an Elite individually (Notice how I disclaimed I would not make that dissertion? See that was the point you were supposed to read, not skip over), I merely stated that with equivelant firepower…

    …Thermal Grenades, Blasters, Autoblasters, Auto turrets and vector drones are more than equal field weapon to the Covenant standard armoury, so firepwoer is not an issue…

    …And vastly superior numbers (In the thousand of Trillions), Stomrtroopers are a greater Armed force. Not individually, but as an overall army they are superior to Elites in their ability to field more forces, more firepower and more men per company. But I still stand by the fact that the 501st would cut through opposition forces in ground combat.

    – – –

    Christ on a stick man. Actually read what other people post, don’t just skim over it, attain a barely comprehnsible grasp of the subject and attempt to debate others on the matter. It just comes off making *you* look bad and making me feel bad for having to go back and explain the english language to you.

    Use your damn brain man, don’t become another High School statistic.

  68. swifterdeath October 22, 2008 at 9:52 pm -      #68

    “btw the flood are hostile they attack halo and starwars forces”
    sorry ‘cake’ your 100% wrong there…play halo 3 -.- the flood works with MC to stop the ring activation therefore in a time of crisis they could easily work with hte covenant (yes sneaking a body here and there)

    but L-W what makes them be forced to stay in there own galaxy?…(yes im sure you have something to prove me wrong as i havea few tricks up my sleeves)

    as yes in a space battle ship to ship halo probably loses (cant say they automaticly because they can always pull a lucky one)

    but in a ground battle with elites i have no doubt in my mind the elites would tear threw stormtroopers like butter.

    now from a long distance elites would be at there second best. medium there worst. clsoe up…yeah there toast -.- a quote about a plasma rifle (the main elite weaponry)
    “You know, it looks delicate and so you feel like you need to hold it kinda gingerly—but then you see an Elite crack a Bravo Kilo’s head with one—the things are built tough.” bravo kilo means brute…and im more then sure those heads are really tough…not to mention what those things can do to humans…

    and yeah humans are good at hiding…they did that with the covenant for so long.

    and with forunner technology as i posted earlier they could more then likely make space travel.

    and dont say well we dont have any info that they can…yeah if a foreunner can make artificial stars or if they cant then be able to move a star out of a galaxy or create something that kills all sentiant life within 25,000 light years (yes thats how far) then well…yeah…im more then sure they could

    and if you pull up that we dont have info about it i can simply wipe it about you (i know ive seen quite a few people posting stuff about no info on it so i just wanted to state as im not sure you did, but yeah just wanna make it sure)

    but yeah i hope you post about the other posts as i dont want it to seem like you gave up ^_^…i want to actually hear you say i won that small section of the debate…(not the whole debate jsut about that thing)

  69. L-W October 23, 2008 at 12:17 am -      #69

    Nothing forces the Halo units to stay within their own galaxy…

    Except the limited capacity for FTL travel. Covenant and Humans warred within a very small space of the Orion arm of the Galaxy; and it was only a rare instance that has ever forced them beyond those limited confines, in which case they relied upon Forerunner transport and teleportation to achieve greater distances than either of their craft manage.

    If you want to make a compariosn:

    A Covenant Fleet has to make several hundred smaller jumps to cover the vast distances between each system to the next. To make this distance not only requires considerable time, but exhumes massive amounts of available fuel.

    A Star destroyer, with an active Hyper-Drive engine, can leap the entire space of the Galaxy in a single burst, with only a slight variation between time and space upon re-entry.

    In terms of range deployment, Star Wars wins out. Given the rules of engagement, there is no way they could manuvere their entire planetary and space-faring population (Civilian, Military and Economic ) within such a short space of time at a sudden notice. We’re talking thousands of star systems, thousands of ships and billions of individuals suddenly evacuating without warning and suddenly becoming refugees.

    It cannot be done. We can barely evacuate Cities within weeks, let alone entire star systems. It took several weeks to get all the refugees of Harvest alone; and that was a relatively low population human colony.

    The Star Wars Cruisers would be within orbit within a few hours, so a lot of colonies would fall before they could even get enough people off the surface to even form a single refugee caravan prepared for a long haul flight. Remember how long it took for UNSC command to even discover what happened to Harvest? Within that time the Empire would have passed through and taken the entire system.

    It cannot be done.

    – – –

    The moment you rely on luck to win a battle, you’ve thrown away all chances for victory. Sun Tzu says that the outcome of the battle is determined before the battle itself, thus luck has no relevance here.

    – – –

    I doubt Elites would ‘tear’ through Stormtroopers. They can provide a pretty formidable ground engagement force and would certainly overwhelm Elites with numbers and sheer firepower alone, akin to the modern US Army. No doubt the Elites would be hardy, but there are instances where no amount of skill can really overcome an enemy.

    But as I’ve stated before, how often would close quarters engagements occur? The majority of the fighting would be naval and aerial with practically zero infantry engagement; and we all know that Star Wars owns Halo in the naval and aerial departments.

    Since there are no terrestrial targets worth capturing, Stormtroopers will only be limited to Marine duty. Preventing boarding actioms, security, maintenance and turret operation.

    – – –

    I’ve repeated this how many times now? God knows. But if you wish to bring all the non-linear elements into the battle, specifically the Forerunners; then I’ll simply bring in the Kwa.

    Instant game over.

    The infinity gates are infinitely far more destructive than a million Rings combined. The entire Halo Galaxy would dissappear in nanoseconds.

  70. L-W October 23, 2008 at 3:56 am -      #70

    Thanks to Halopedia, a bitof research and our good old friend Mathematics, I’ve determined the total Covenant and Human populations of Halo (Citizens and Military).

    Total Covenant population:
    Twenty-one billion seven hundred eighty-eight million ( 21,788,000,000)

    Total UNSC Human population:
    Two hundred seventy-two billion five hundred million (272,500,000,000)

    So just under 300 billion combined forces.

  71. swifterdeath October 23, 2008 at 11:21 am -      #71

    oh wow L-W…man i seriously wonder if your as smart as you claim to be…sure i know your smart in the things your talking about but i see alot of things where you not considering everything…i never said the foreunners would step in…i simply said foreunner technology…the dreadnaught could more then be capable of transporting people quickly as well who ever said they would be forced to take everyone…the covenant would probably only take those they need and possibly humans in there extra space in which they would take likely less then a day because those they need would easily be ready as they are not trying for babies or women first…its the highest in the foodchain that go first…as they are a hierarchy…as for the humans it wont be the worst possible thing for them as they only haver a few planets left after halo 3…it would be none but the covenant skipped a few planets on there way to earth.

    so that would not be there worst problem…now getting out would be a problem…but once they took a jump into slipspace then thats where they get lucky because it can take months to get a area where covenant can take a day, so once they take jumps then that means more then likely the star wars wont be able to find them.

    and about the empire not atacking on ground…yeah the covenant will be mroe then happy to attack they could quite easily manage a way to get atleast one ship with a hundred elite spec ops onto a planet which they could then stealth there way around intill they manage a way for more elites and ODST to make a voyage.

    the star wars universe wont be able to block every single section of them making for no way into there galaxies…yes more then 4/5’s of the humans wont make it out but only about 1/3 at most of the covenant that are importent wont make it out…everyone who isnt importent to them would more then likely.

    oh man about the post about a group they could win….
    ok imagin a thousand elites…to win hte stormtroopers would have to output at least 5-8 storm troopers per minor elite…thats five to eight thousand storm troopers…but then you add there majors, ultras, zealots, and spec ops. in which a single zealot could more then easily be able to take down a dozen or so storm troopers without much problem.

    now im not saying a minor could easily beat 5-8 storm troopers thats where he cant easily beat them because there to great in nubmer to him and he can only hold them back if hes lucky. but unlike stormtroopers a elite dosent lose moral…yes theres the few wimp elites but a minor when he loses his shields he will more then likely roar in pain then charge you if hes alone…due to hte fact he might die anyway….

    but in equipment wise in the battlefield of ground battle the covenant dont lose out…niether does the elites- because they have many equipment that can easily overcome those of stormtroopers as there fuelrod gun will more then likely kill a stormtrooper or a group of storm troopers if there to close together in one or two hits…and a needler…well thats only a problem if it hits live tissue…while they have firebomb grenades…spike grenades, and even plasma grenades the covenant alone can match mostly what the empire has alone…now in a fighter against fighter (tie fighter against seraph) i know the seraph is gonna murder those tie fighters and i mean murder because the tie fighters never had a chance…so in a ground battle the stormtroopers have to mass the elites in much larger numbers just to win and in that case they will still lose tremendous numbers they have to output anywhere from 10-15x as much men if there where just elites now if you put in jackals hunters brutes and grunts as well with drones then you have to put those numbers up becuase hunters can engage in the frount lines/ grunts can soak up hte fire/ drones can make sky atacks/ jackals can range them.

    as well a prophet chair is a tremendously powerful tool…from far away that thing can murder you and is near impenetrable…and nothing can penetrate it -.- not plasma not even a energy sword…you have to get up and whack at it just to get the shields down (yes theres a glith that you whack it twice then sword it and regret dies…) and since storm troopers SUCK in close combate a prophet chair can more then likely survive a while intill bombbarded…and if they do decide to get close then htey get mauled by elite honor gaurd…

    now about the bomb….i doubt a human could deactivate it yes elites can but a human…no master cehif inputted cortana into hte bomb as he could not deactivate it…i doubt the covenant would ahve anything but elites be able to deactivate it with mabey brutes…but they would not trust a grunt near one of those things therefore for a stormtrooper to deactivate it…yeah no.

    so yes you may have been right about the bomb (in a sense) but about the stormtroopers winning they have to mass there enemy…in which they have to mass them largely! in which i know they can but eventually they wont be able to mass because they dont ahve enough troopers nearby to mass…so yes all of the empire troops could beat the covenant but htey also have to deal with humans…which the humans from halo are exelent strategists…expecially the A.I.

  72. AlphaCommando October 23, 2008 at 12:30 pm -      #72

    Enough about these Stormtroopers, the average E-11 blaster could down an elite minor in 2 maybe 3 or 4 hits, and considering we are talking battlefield scale, the long sight ranges combined with the power and accuracy of theses blasters would allow them to slaughter Elites when massed. Yes I will admit they would not fair so well in close-combat, however that’s the thing with battlefields, with all the heavy armor and emplacement weapons running straight up to your enemy (I don’t care how tough and Elite Zealot is, he would die in one hit from an emplacement heavy laser cannon, which are very common.) is a very dumb prospect. A single Star Destroyer can drop a heavily armed and armored base right into the thick of battle along with hundreds of emplacement guns and heavy vehicles…

    And we’re just assuming an entire battlefield filled with only regular Stormtroopers, you have Dark Troopers (easily surpassing Hunters), and hundreds of types of Droid Infantry, Stormtrooper variants and countless vehicles. The only heavy Covie Vehicles show to date are the Wraith, which I would think would falter pretty easy against the power of the heavy lasers mounted on the combat vehicles of Star Wars. The only remaining one, and the only one even capable of truly appreciable damage would be the Scarab, and considering the proliferation of doroppable turbolasers of even t

  73. AlphaCommando October 23, 2008 at 12:40 pm -      #73

    Damn it….

    continuing….the ability to easily call down a very-high-accuracy orbital bombardment would make it less useful. I’m also not gonna say that an AT-AT = A Scarab but for every Scarab the covies can deploy it would be fairly easy for the Empire to deploy 8 AT-ATs.

    Also; you bring up the Prophet Chair…something we aren’t even sure is given to every Prophet (I’m talking about the combat version) and I highly doubt it is. But why would the Covies deploy a Prophet in such a combat scenario, would they be that desperate? Also, nothing is invincible, the only reasons in game that hey make say, the hunters invulnerable except for their weak spots or Regret only vulnerable to punches is because they want you to adapt strategies and to make the game harder. Sure the shield might be strong but on that scale I highly doubt it would take much more than a few laser cannon blasts.

    I had something else I was gonna say but I forgot…ah well.

  74. AlphaCommando October 23, 2008 at 12:44 pm -      #74

    Oh, that’s right. You’re also assuming that the Stormtroopers aren’t equipped with anything but the E-11, plenty of specialist Stormtroopers can be deployed, those with rocket launchers which could easily help down groups of enemies and armored vehicles, sharpshooters, rocket troopers, etc…Any weapon the Covies can deploy, the Empire can field a better version of it….

  75. swifterdeath October 23, 2008 at 2:57 pm -      #75

    umm it dosent actually NEED a prophet in it…and i know not all prophets have the chairs but im sure they could easily produce more -.-…its not likes its a marvel that they have them.

    as i know every scarab there is like eight or more AT-AT’s but that would be about whats needed to defeat a scarab…seeing as they are pretty much invulnrable inless destryoed at the core…and one blast from the scarab hitting the head of the AT-AT would most likely destroy it…

    as well…name me a close to medium weapon that the star wars has thats better then the carbine?…and tell me how -.- cuz the carbine is really good…

    and i doubt one or two hits would drop a elite minor…those things shields only go down for plasma easily…i mean pure plasma dosent take it down that quickly…dont over underestimate a elite -.-

    and a zealot i doubt would drop in one hit from much…it can take 3 hits from a energy sword just to kill a zealot sometimes even four…and a dark trooper being as good as a hunter?…HA!

    you have to get hunters in THREE areas…back (which is quite hard inless urrounded) frount (which is protected by a shield) and the neck (which is extremly hard to hit anyway)

    so a single blast from a hunter fuel rod gun would more then likely kill just about anyone…as they can actually glass areas they shoot (read a halo book)

    and yeah they can call orbital bombbardments…and when elites board them threw a slipscpace jump right infront of them and place several bombs on the thing bombarding them it then blows sky high…since the elites dont fear to stay with the bomb.

  76. marche October 23, 2008 at 3:38 pm -      #76

    hunters are extremly powerful in the haloverse,but i think that is over doing it,ive played a lot of star wars games and they got some pretty powerful stuff like the disruptor rifle and concusion cannon.

  77. That one dude October 23, 2008 at 6:04 pm -      #77

    If this was out in the open i think star wars would win the battle but if its in a jungle ill give the win to the halo universe they just have better armor well not stronger but camoflauge wise. But i dont know much about star wars armor or anything so yeah i might be wrong.

  78. swifterdeath October 23, 2008 at 8:35 pm -      #78

    if it was a open ground battle forces equal then halo would pull the victory…even if halo only had 1/3 of the forces they could more then likely pull the victory…very easily if they had a good general. lets not even say humans only Covie. ok he has about 2/5 of the forces Grunts, 1/10 of them Jackals, 1/20 of them hunters, 3/20 of them Drones, 1/5 of them elites…give the other team what they want (that woulda ctually ge reasonable not like all jedi or sith. or all Spec ops (like i had no spec ops jsut basic elites and grunts and what not) now i know battles would be larger then that im just saying even and thats jsut a basic summary…yeah there would be less hunters mabey, and more otehr troops thats just how i would probably field a battle…have the grunts soak up most of the fire while jackals sat back giving hell to hte front lines of the enemy and the hunters being in the front corners to take down some of there front lines as well with some of the hunters in the middle. id have half the drone fly over the enemy quickly with plasma grenades ready to have the drones drop to eliminate some of there Key points and then have the rest flank using the same tactic only shortly after the frist either sort of had a succes or failed. (since i doubt at full strnegth they would land more then one of two drops) i would have the elites near the back crouched letting the grunts soak up the fire as they advances. now thats only hwo i would do it i know it probably sucks and anyone out there like L-W or Alpha could easily counter it but i used no vehicles and didnt count any spec ops in any of the teams.

    now some elites would probably have snipers of fuel rounds guns the sniperrs off helping hte jackals and the fuel rod gunners near the front still crouched behind the grunts firing into the enemy hoping to take a few down quickly before the grunts infront of them are killed and they are forced to pull out plasma rifles and try and take a few down before the masses of enemy kill them.

    im sure this tactic might win with a 5% victory chance as im sure L-W or Alpha come up with a counter against it.

    and Please i want to see actually how good you could be and easily Crush my plans that took me no more then a few seconds to think up ^_^…im sure it will take you less to counter my weak offense and claim there would be much larger then 2/3 of the troops being on SW side but i just wanted to make a battle like that seem fair but im sure my tactic might work if your not the general and someone more like Hotshot was even if there was more then 2/3 on your side…but yeah i invite you to destroy my plans….and im looking forward to shaking my head in amazment at how easily you manage to crush my simple plans…

  79. AlphaCommando October 23, 2008 at 8:53 pm -      #79

    1. The Scarab gun seems to be fairly powerful, however in Halo 3 MC (even on heroic) can survive the beam for a tiny bit, meaning that I doubt that it could take down an AT-AT so easily, considering that they are pretty much immune to most ground-based weapons. The turbolasers on a AT-AT have one-hit-kill abilities on most ground based vehicles, and based on how a few tank shells seem to do damage to a Scarab (yet again the invincibility of a scarab is just another gameplay feature) I have no doubt 3 or even 2 AT-ATs could easily lay down a withering barrage enough to disassemble a Scarab easily. Their numerical superiority is also another bonus….

    2. The E-11 can blow a .5 meter hole in reinforced concrete, that’s a hole more than 1.5 feet deep and that is standard issue. The Type-51 Covenant Carbine has shown to be very powerful in the Haloverse but hardly anywhere nearly as powerful as that. and the carbine isn’t standard issue, its a specialist weapon issued to a small section of the military. The E-11 surpasses every single non-support weapon in all of halo with ease.

    3. Based on above power of the E-11 we’re talking 1 or 2 hits to drop the shields, and probably 1 or 2 hits to drop the elite. And considering the blaster is an impact energy weapon then I’ma go with that fact that it would be just as efficient or even moreso than plasma weapons at dropping shields. Considering that the damage on plasma is heat and electrical based (minor), a blaster does massive heat-based damage, meaning that it has similar properties to a plasma weapon but even more efficient.

    4. A Zealot can’t take any more than a rocket….the heavy laser cannons and even the warheads on SW rockets are far, far more powerful than a human rocket launcher. This is pretty simple, and enough sustained fire from E-11’s would wear down the shields on even these might warriors. And you love to bring up the Zealot, you only ever see a few per game, they are extremely rare, and considering the massive numerical superiority of the forces of SW, ther skills would better be used being generals….

    5. Yet again, the Hunter is made so tough for gameplay reasons, the weapons of the SW universe would have more difficulty in punching through the armor than normal but they are far superior to the weapons of the Haloverse (especially the human weapons referenced in the books that are the reasons Hunters are walking tanks). The Stage 3 (which was the planned production variant) is incredibly tough, to the point where a master class Jedi had a very hard time dealing with a single unit, they stand 9.5 feet tall (a combat ready hunter is about 8), have built-in missile tubes that can rapidly fire missiles capable of downing tanks easily, and are armed with a blaster weapon that can consume infantry squads in a single shot an dare equipped with personal shield generators. Not to mention they are most likely vastly stronger than a hunter (hunters are strong, but we are talking like throwing tanks string) to the point where they could physically rip them apart or bash them to pulp.

    6. Again with the boarding, if that is such a flawless tactic; that can be used as easily and efficiently as you say, then why don’t the Covies do it all the time? And yet again since we have no cannon source material stating that the bomb is not just touch activated, you can’t go around saying that a Stromtrooper marine squad couldn’t deactivate it, when the only actual evidence we have is just MC touching the holographic pad and it deactivates. You say that only an elite could turn it off…does it have some kind of genetic lock? Unlikely as elites wear bodysuits. A code in the armor? Easily replicated… Pixie Dust? Something else?

    7. The Halo universe lacks the technology to enter another universe, that is an irrelevant argument, its not like maybe only a few would make it to the SW universe but that nobody would get beyond the rim….Hell its possible that the reason that all of Halo takes place in one arm is because they lack the technology to even jump from arm-to-arm. The Dreadnought wouldn’t survive one engagement against an Imperial fleet, all Imperial Naval Command would have to do is trap it with a Interdictior cruiser then blow it to superheated scrap.

    Well; That One Dude, active camo is well and good but it is a piece of equipment added to only a small fraction of elite, brute, and grunt armors. Plus it is easily countered by thermal detection devices, all you would have to do is have tanks spot for infantry or just start handing out the thermal enhancement for Stormtrooper helmets…Or just avoid fighting in jungle and burn the whole damn place down….which is what I would do. The empire seems to like just destroying entire surfaces of planets to avoid actually fighting (which is an admirable tactic if you don’t loose anything.)

  80. swifterdeath October 23, 2008 at 10:18 pm -      #80

    oh man…god i may have bad grammer but it seems everyone i debate with has a simple one track mind…god its so annoying to see them not even read my posts completly (i know its bad grammer but its only really not comas or letters messed up (but the human mind is supposed to be able to read the word as long as the first and last are in there) so that shouldent be the problem so i dont know i think your just ignoring some parts of my posts…) so instead of continueing to debate on that post which seems like you repost things over and over after i continue to give the explanation and yet people ignore it -.- ill simply get my bro to debate on the matter since he is much more of a nerd on the subject

  81. marche October 23, 2008 at 11:38 pm -      #81

    actually scarabs are invincble in the books too,but are vulnerable to sure as alpha said a few blasts from a few AT-AT’s are enough to take them down.its just that no wepaon is avalible to you in halo to Peirce such armor.scarabs were also made easier in halo 3 because bungie said it looked like a basket.this made it weaker.
    and the hunters being weak is partly true,they are not invulnerable to rockets or artilery,but their armor is tough.being hit in the orange parts is a weak point that would get them killed if they werent careful,but they are strong enemies nonetheless.

  82. L-W October 24, 2008 at 4:02 am -      #82

    So why did we spend so many years collaberating on the development of the english language then, to have it be useless? Grammar *is* necessary; (God help your teachers) and has a large number important and incredibly useful applications in all languages. To deny it is to deny the importance of the written word itself.

    So, are you a Man or an Ape? A part of the Civilized world, or a primitive communicating in grunts and screeches?

    This will be refelected in your choices.

    – – –

    I also have to ask, in what manner are we being single minded? We do consider your points with sufficient analysis as to rebutt them with comments of our own. Unless you care to explain the meaning of such a statement we have no idea what you mean and therefore cannot possibly reconsider our stance.

    Despite the fact that we’ve (Apologies for the imagery) repeatedly raped every single one of your points.

    – – –

    Now onto the core of the discussion:

    1) The E-11 standard issue Blaster firearm is a Particle beam generator capable of firing blaster bolts with an energy greater than that of the Covenant particle beam rifle. Coupled with its rapid fire capacity, range, lightweight and high cooldown rate it is a field weapon far superior to that of Covenant firearms.

    2) The Heavy Blaster class (Equivelant in size to the Human M4 Carbine) can saturate large areas of the battlefield with rapid fire Particle beams in quick succession. Tha addition of the upgraded Power Cells means that single Stormtrooper could become the equivelant of a 1000 Jackals firing a 1000 Particle beam rifles every second at a single target.

    More than enough to liquify a Hunter in a single volley.

    3) The Imperial Military disbanded their Plasma Grenades (Yes, they had Plasma greandes) long before, citing that they were clunky, archaic and *useless* against the standard issue armour of the period (That of the Stormtrooper). Instead they opted the use of Thermal Grenades, small nuclear fusion devices that caused instant death within a 12 metre radius of the target area. Vastly superior to the measly 4 metre kill radius of the Covenant Plasma Grenade.

    – – –

    So that settles the issue of who posesses superior field weaponry. Let’s move on:

    – – –

    But you were right about one thing, your battle plan fails quite easily; because you quite stupidly rely on Cavalry charge tactics.

    A) The Ion Rifle used by Troopers has a range of 10Km in open territory, given their training and specially augmented bodies, Sniper Troopers could turn that to 20Km in large open territory. The Covenant equivelant has a range of only 1.5Km.

    Sniper Troopers would destroy a large portion of the enemy snipers easily, suppress the rest with withering fire and begin to take out opposing infantry.

    B) The Grunts would be taken down easily, as you mentioned, but in larger numbers than you anticipate. A single Blaster shot is enough to kill several Grunts in a row without a loss in inertia; whilst the heavier Blaster Rifles would turn the field into Swiss Cheese. Grunts would be doing more than soak up the fire, they would be dying in the thousands.

    C) Meanwhile Sniper Troopers will be picking off any Elites towards the rear lines; using the range of the Ion Rifle to easily manage this. Once struck and killed by the Ion rifle, the ionic charge then deactivates the weapon in question, so any attempt to use the fallen weapons would be useless.

    D) Using the colossal amount of Grunt bodies as a barrier and their personal shielding units, Troopers would then advance towards the rear lines under Sniper cover and destroy any Elite, Brute or other Covenant they come across with a mixture of Blaster fire and ranged explosives such as Thermals.

    – – –

    Either that or they could activate their Shield generators, place a large EM shield over the entire Stormtrooper army and remain safe from the Covenant ranged attacks. Leaving the only option for the Covenant an ettempt to close ranks for melee comabt; and be destroyed in mass Blaster fire.

  83. L-W October 24, 2008 at 4:25 am -      #83

    As other have mentioned before, the Scarab is not invincible. It is just an issue that no field weapon or small arms in the UNSC has the capacity to destroy it. Even the guys in the Halo universe agree with me:

    “We’ve all run the simulations. They’re tough, but they ain’t invincible.”
    -Sgt. Avery Johnson

    But the Empire has plenty of options though.

    1) The AT-AT Turboblasters could easily destroy a Scarab; and with their superior range, energy shielding and firing rate, they do not require the advantage in numbers to destroy Scarabs. Being smaller and faster certainly gives the AT-ATs a suitable advantage.

    2) A basic Ion cannon would destroy a Scarab in a single shot quite easily.

    3) The Scarab has no energy shielding, making it vulnerable to even turbolaser fire from small manned and unmanned vehicles such as the Imperial Scout ship or enforcer.

    4) In Halo 3 Scarabs can be destroyed with the use of Missile pods deployed by UNSC forces. The Hailfire missile adopted by the Imperial Army is capable of being shoulder mounted, multiple rapid bursts and reloads and can destroy an AT-AT in a single strike. Considering the superiority of the Imperial weaponry, a single Hailfire missile is more than enough to destroy an unshielded Scarab.

    – – –

    Considering the Gauss gun found on the M41 Warthog can cripple a Scarab, Imperial Troops would have NO problem bringing them down by the dozen.

  84. swifterdeath October 24, 2008 at 11:53 am -      #84

    wow L-W…man…that quote about the scarab…yeah you wanna know what he was refering to?…that if you shoot the legs they get down to you can board them… so dont use it as they can be just shot down…as alpha decided to play the no canon game…we have no canon exidence of anything bringing them down…therefore it stands that they are immune to any form of ranged attack, as well about the E-11 blaster we have no canon about them having the same effect o nthe shields therefore we can only count them as slightly more powerful in the attacks then the human ballistic weapons, we have no canon that any form of ranged attack and pierce the Porphet Chair. i can play the no canon game alot…simply we have canon about anything against anything there diffrent universes. as well i think i heard something about (not sure if i read it correctly i was kind of skim reading) but it sounded like someone said how the halo universe would get into the SW ones?…if i read that correctly then i do beleive its a universe battle therefore they are battling one another niether can simply be unable to be reached…it would be more the universe’s came together and therefore where one and now hte two universe’s are fighting. but thats only my basic view.

    now im done argueing with people who claim to be so smart and good but cant even correctly read my posts and simply state the same thing over and over but i have proved them wrong. tehrefore i hope i have coninced my brother to hop on and prove you wrong.

    though he keeps on saying you would be nothing for him i do state that you guys arnt gonna be easy to argue with and since he suffers from not even being able to spell some simple words well then…copy and paste what he says if you cant read it and post it on some place that corrects stuff…then you might be in the clear.

  85. AlphaCommando October 24, 2008 at 12:56 pm -      #85

    If your brother shares your genes this should be fun…..

    Anyway, we ave associative knowledge (which is what all these universe battles rely on), takes relative data from each universe and combining them. You seems to fail to understand how this works, you make stupid comment, we beat it, we go on to your next list of stupid comments. That’s the point we are at, there is really nothing else to do here but that….So stop saying that we are being the wrong ones by doing our duty to beat down your arguments. It’s not helping you, I’m sure if one where to ask any normal person to make a decision on who would win based on the evidence put forth, they would side with us.

    Anyway, I’m pretty much done with this argument, your the only person left making an argument for Halo and a bad one at that. You have two people with a college level education up against a one who has shown to be very far from even staring one. Its David and Goliath, only this time Goliath is wearing the appropriate protection and David doesn’t have God.

  86. swifterdeath October 24, 2008 at 2:12 pm -      #86

    ok well back on the matter of the bomb as i knew i was right all along i might as well post this…saying master chief did not know how to de-arm the bomb

    “Cortana (O.S.): “Just so you know, there are quite a few Elites guarding the bomb. You may need to get creative.”

    The station shakes again. Outside the window, Chief can see the second carrier bypassing the Cairo, following the first carrier down to Earth.

    Once Chief clears the room of Covenant defenses.


    Cortana’s holographic avatar appears on a pedestal near the bomb.

    Cortana: “Me. Inside your head. Now.”

    The Master Chief touches the pedestal, and Cortana downloads directly into his armor. He steps over to the bomb, and touches the flashing red activation pad at its center. It blinks and shuts off.

    Master Chief: “How much time was left?”

    Cortana: “You don’t want to know.”

    now if master chief didnt need cortana then why did he need to get her in his head?

    as well with another quote “Cortana: Ask yourself this question right now: Is doing what I am right now helping Cortana stop this station from blowing into tiny, tiny bits?”

    so if he dosent need cortana then why did she say if this would help CORTANA from stopping the bomb from going off?…yeah i think we’ve covered that a human cannot disarm it…

    and about the scarbs gun not being able to kill chief right away on heroic…ok lets go with what you said about in the gameplay…if a hunters fuel rod cannon can glass the area it hits…and the scarab gun is just one big fuel rod gun… then it would glass the area it hits and pretty much disinegrate master chief on hit -.-…

    therefore in gameplay they would not want to make it thate even on easy you die immediatly after being hit, so therefore we can make the statement that they could more then likely destroy the head of a AT-AT in a single blast if concentrated at least one third of the shot or less…

    as well a plasma grenade from halo is not the same as one that would be from star wars as i would expect them not to be exact copies therefore they are not comprised of the same elements (yes theres plasma but they may function on other methods like high explsive grenades and fragment grenades…) meaning that hte plasma grenade would be considered to be more then powerful enough to take down any stormtroopers in the lethality distance…

    as well if your college intelligence why do you continue to misread me?…i have never said anything like “So stop saying that we are being the wrong ones by doing our duty to beat down your arguments.” because the arguments im holding im holding quite well you just beleive thate you are easily destroying them even as i continue to prove you wrong on the matter…

    as well if a hunter is a walking tank…then a scarab which is more then 10x the power of a hunter is more 10x as powerful as any tank?…which yea would be very powerful….

    as well a hunter on heroic (the setting that is supposed to be most realistic) dosent fall in one hit from a SPNKR rocket…(i beleive thats how its spelled) and i know stuff can peirce there armor but i doubt something a standard stormtrooper carries is gonna do that kind of damage…and about 1000 partical beam rifles of damage?…that would rip through over 1000 spartans lined up your saying then?…yeah i doubt it…

  87. That one dude October 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm -      #87

    Is this the brother talking right now?

  88. L-W October 24, 2008 at 8:55 pm -      #88

    These arguments are formed by comparitive data, by examining ranges, logisitcs, power output, numbers, impact, sociolitical implications, speed, destructive capacity and whatever general information can be discovered or observed from canon sources. By making these comparisons we can begin to form the basis of an argument on what element could nullify another.

    So here we go again:

    1) There is plenty of information on how a Scarab can be destroyed; and Halo 3 practically provides an abundance of such instances.

    2) As I used the word “cripple” to dennote the collapse of the structure itself, how do you equate that to destroying the Scarab? Does the word cripple have a different meaning where you come from?

    3) We have plenty of information on the E-11 Blaster; and all evidence dictates that it is superior to Covenant weaponry. The fact that it generates Particle beams rather than solid state munitions suggests we’re looking a firearm with a far greater destructive capacity than most Covenant weapons.

    4) I would say this battle takes place with each side residing within their respective galactic counterparts. Otheriwse all else is null and void.

    5) The issue with the AT-AT/Scarab debate is similar to that of the Star Destroyer vs. Covenant cruiser issue:

    – The Turbolaser has a far greater range than that of the Scarab gun (Which has atmospheric dissipative properties).
    – The AT-AT has energy shielding, the Scarab does not.
    – The weapons of the AT-AT have far greater firing rates that could wither down the Scarab quite easily. The Scarab has a long cooldown rate and could probably only drop the shield in the first or second strike.
    – An Imperial Cruiser can drop dozens upon dozens of AT-ATs. The Covenant Assault carrier do not carry an equivelant number.

    6) The Plasma grenade in the Star Wars universe did actually have the same properties of the Covenant Plasma Grenade. There was no reliance on fragmentation or chemically triggered explosives such as in the Human equivelant; instead opting to use a magnetically charged Plasma compound to dissipate highly lethal levels of heat and concussion energy into the surround area.

    The Star Wars equivelant of which had a kill range of 9 metres, still far more powerful than the mere 4 metres of the Covenant Plasma grenade. There are only several minor differences between the two, but who wants a grenade that glows bright blue and forms an adhesive surface upon contact with a living organism; whilst emitting a radioactive compound that can prove fatal over a period of exposure?

    7) I’d like to know what particular argument you are holding quite well? Since as we’ve debated and evolved this discussion you’ve flipped-flopped quite violently between views; you’ve gone from saying that the Grunts could out-populate the Stormtrooper ranks to saying that MAC rounds can produce sound in space.

    First Halo could win, then they would not. They would hide, then they would fight the Empire in open engagements. From going from an open confrontation, to abandoning the majority of the population to certain death.

    You’ve held as much ground for as long as Poland in 1939. Considering that the debate went from an initial indecisive division over victory to the majority of posters agreeing with both Alpha and myself over the assured victory of Star Wars, it really demonstrates the validity of your argument.

    The only person siding with you is Hotshot; and the less said about him the better.

    8) I hope your Brother can provide a decent argument, I really do. Because so far you’ve done nothing stimulating for me really. Heck, invite the entire family around; I want to speak with Mamma and Pappa Swifterdeath and have a jolly old chinwag with someone intelligent.

  89. swifterdeath October 24, 2008 at 11:40 pm -      #89

    “Is this the brother talking right now?”

    no actually it isnt the brother…he once again refused to get on -.- and im trying to gt him to read the first halo book (what would take me a hour or two he can probably finish in 30 minutes…

    i beleive he just read a space marine book about space wolves…actually it was 3 in one…three storys about ragnar i think his name is…well yeah he finished it in over all probably about 4-8 hours?…mabey more or less i wasent paying attention.

    now back to L-W…you know when i say you guys dont read what im saying i think i was correct…i have no doub the E-11 blaster is probably more powerful then the covenant weapons (by how far couldent be told) as they have diffrent properties…and what i said was that we could not say they would drop elite shields as quick or quicker then plasma rifles or anything due to the fact that covenant plasma weaponry downs shields very quickly…


    “2) As I used the word “cripple” to dennote the collapse of the structure itself, how do you equate that to destroying the Scarab? Does the word cripple have a different meaning where you come from?”

    well a scarab does not ‘cripple’ inless you mean cripple as either gets destroyed or buckles under the damage of being hit in the joints…(in which niehter seem right for the place as cripple would implie not getting back up(as the scarabs do) and it also dosent fit exploding…) now when you lash back about wha ti have said whatever ihave simply stated cripple does not fit how scarabs are destroyed (i read what you said short and quick so i may not have read it correctly like what you read from me…)

    and you say whats the point of having something that sticks to people?…why not??? as well it sticks to vehicles making it quite good.

    and i need to know how big and fast are AT-AT’s cuz the ones from the movies are slow as hell…i know scarabs are quite fast. as well i need to know do the empire have to land to deploy AT-AT’s??? because i know all they have to do for the halo scarabs are drop them from space and they easily survive they fall all they have to do is shake themselves off a bit.

    and about you and alpha defeating everything ive said please tell me how ive messed up the bomb part about humans being able to deactivate it when ive been able to prove master chief (who has great knoledge of the covenant) could not deactivate the bomb but instead have to have cortana deactivate it…

    because at the look of it i think i won there. as alpha stated master chief only put his hand on hte bomb…it seems by hte quotes ive made it dosent seem like it was that simple as it was cortana that deactivated it…

    and as well even if the first scarab blast takes down hte shields then the turret atop the scarab (which can fire from 1.5 miles away i believe) will then do the trick) because if the scarabs gun (which can fire from a .4 miles away) can hit it im more then sure the turret can) and lets say the AT-AT manages to disable the scarabs guns and turrets…ok the scarab gets up the the AT-AT sustaining damage but enough it can live with it then raises one of its legs quickly jamming it into the AT-AT or jumping onto the AT-AT in a attempt to take both of them down…

    and can you please rate my battle plan… i got a bet going its gonna be lower then 4…i mean even my brother (who has a very limited knoledge of star wars and used only the units from battlefront 2(which are im sure weaker then the ones from the books) even though i own around 4 or 5 star wars games thats the only one ive recently played that could prove anything to this point as the other two are KOTOR 1 and 2…) managed to cream the army i created…though that was with knoledge of how my units where placed and there tactics…but non the less he still creamed me with little though about it…and he used simple weapons not going into the details…

    now the only way i figure a certain win would be them engaging into melee…that would defenitly be a lose for the star wars side….though they have to make it to melee combat first….with which even his plan that he thought up quicker then i made mine woulod manage his troops to never have to engage in melee so im sure ill get a 1 or 2 ^_^…at least i tried…

    well if i missed anything in this post please tell me so i can get back to that point since my back is killing me…though i will attempt to get him to post i doubt he will since he is so stubborn…

    but yeah anything i missed i will hopfully get back to ^_^…

  90. marche October 25, 2008 at 12:29 pm -      #90

    i may be mistaken but wasnt there a halo wars video where they destroyed a scarab from the outside?im sure SW has something that is equaly devestating.

  91. AlphaCommando October 25, 2008 at 3:43 pm -      #91

    Considering a turbolaser can punch through several meters of durasteel (ubersteel)…yes.

    I will respond to the post later, when I feel like typing a whole bunch….

  92. El Zilcho October 25, 2008 at 5:38 pm -      #92

    yeh basically, in Halo Wars the Scarabs can take a lot of damage, but against Turbo laser fire they wouldn’t last that long and while the scarab’s main cannon might do some damage there isn’t exactly enough Scarabs to so much as halt the tide of this war, let alone turn it.

  93. swifterdeath October 25, 2008 at 8:30 pm -      #93

    yes but also the AT-AT’s shield would have little affect because plasma takes down shileds really well…therefore the shields would not come into play as much…and the turret firing would also do somthing…

    as well there is going to be a new halo map releasing about a covenant scarab making factory…meaning a single scarab is probably made every minute per factory (at the least becuase who wants to sit around for 10 minutes waiting to see if lekgolo worms are the things in scarabs (but even if it is 10 minutes thats still 6 scarabs per hour and there would more then likly be well over 10-50 factorys so that well over 60-300 (at probably the least) per hour!….

    as well i have a few more points i could add into the battle but im to tired right now so il finish them 2marrow…

    but really i need to see if i win the bet…so here is a re-post

    ok he has about 2/5 of the forces Grunts, 1/10 of them Jackals, 1/20 of them hunters, 3/20 of them Drones, 1/5 of them elites…give the other team what they want (that woulda ctually ge reasonable not like all jedi or sith. or all Spec ops (like i had no spec ops jsut basic elites and grunts and what not) now i know battles would be larger then that im just saying even and thats jsut a basic summary…yeah there would be less hunters mabey, and more otehr troops thats just how i would probably field a battle…have the grunts soak up most of the fire while jackals sat back giving hell to hte front lines of the enemy and the hunters being in the front corners to take down some of there front lines as well with some of the hunters in the middle. id have half the drone fly over the enemy quickly with plasma grenades ready to have the drones drop to eliminate some of there Key points and then have the rest flank using the same tactic only shortly after the frist either sort of had a succes or failed. (since i doubt at full strnegth they would land more then one of two drops) i would have the elites near the back crouched letting the grunts soak up the fire as they advances. now thats only hwo i would do it i know it probably sucks and anyone out there like L-W or Alpha could easily counter it but i used no vehicles and didnt count any spec ops in any of the teams.

    now some elites would probably have snipers of fuel rounds guns the sniperrs off helping hte jackals and the fuel rod gunners near the front still crouched behind the grunts firing into the enemy hoping to take a few down quickly before the grunts infront of them are killed and they are forced to pull out plasma rifles and try and take a few down before the masses of enemy kill them.

    as i said before please crush my plans ^_^…

  94. L-W October 25, 2008 at 9:28 pm -      #94

    As Alpha has said he would post later, I’m not going to steal his thunder, just merely pr-empt his arrival. I’m sure his post will kick butt anyway.

    So here we go:

    1) Cripple dennotes a collapse in the structure regardless of whether it can get back up or not; and since the other legs maintain the burden of the one damaged leg (The presence of the Covenant machine fluid and the slower gait indicate that) it is therefore crippled.

    You’re discussing the parpalegic instance of being crippled associated with animals and humans, not the engineering term; since we’re discussing a machine here you best get on the right page.

    2) Grenades are designed as anti-personnel weapons against entrenched (Trenches, Foxholes, Redbouts etc.) or stationary targets, essentially flushing them out of their hiding holes and opening them up for assault or saturation fire. An adhesive weapon is a tactical nightmare for infantry and no commander or weapons manufacturer would consider them for the battlefield.

    We have plenty of effective ranged weapons against vehicles anyway, why risk a life by having him attempt to use sticky weapons against a moving target?

    3) An AT-AT can reach speeds of up to 60-70Km/h, in the case of the Empire Strikes Back, the Rebels were using short to immediate ranged Ion Cannons, which not even the Empire would dare get too close to. Naturally they wanted to take their time.

    As for the range of weapons, the Turbolaser gives the AT-AT a fire at sight capacity, meaning that the moment it even spots the enemy on the horizon it can engage. For small armoured or infantry units, targeting would be somewhat diffcult, but the 180ft tall Scarab makes a perfect target for long range combat.

    The Scarab gun with its measly 0.4 mile range cannot even compete with that; and the Plasma Turrets are designed for anti-aerial and anti-personnel combat. In the case of the AT-AT they would be useless at even causing damage to the shielding, let alone actually causing damage to the hull itself which is practically resistant to all but the most penetrating of ranged weapons.

    As for your question as to how they are deployed. In cases of emergency they can be magnetically locked or dropped via transporter beam into the atmosphere in individual groups. For massive planetary deployments, the Y-85 Titan Dropship is used in conjunction with TIE and low orbit Cruiser support; so any attempt to intercept a dropship (Which has some pretty nasty defences upon itself) would have to deal with the wrath of a Star Destroyer beforehand.

    – – –

    In conslusion AT-ATs have superior range, shielding, numbers and weaponry. The Turbolaser alone would be enough to dismantle a Scarab to super-heated scrap LONG before either the main gun or point defences have the chance to even engage an AT-AT.

    4) As for your Battle plan, I rate it as being very poorly. For some reason you seem to be fascinated with 17th century human wave tactics that the British Army totally demolished in the Crimean War with only a handful of troops; and what’s this issue you seem to have with early 19th century Cavalry strategy?

    Stale, static, old-fashioned and almost a thousand years behind the time. For some reason you also seem to have this fascination with using Grunts as cannon fodder in wave attacks, which the Chinese troops in the Korean war learnt the hard way not to do, as did the Vietnamese, the Iraq and Iranian military and in Afghanistan.

    To sum it up, a poor backwards attempt at adopting 17-19th century tactical philosophy in vastly modern setting.

  95. L-W October 25, 2008 at 11:48 pm -      #95

    “ok he has about 2/5 of the forces Grunts, 1/10 of them Jackals, 1/20 of them hunters, 3/20 of them Drones, 1/5 of them elites…give the other team what they want (that woulda ctually ge reasonable not like all jedi or sith. or all Spec ops…Blah, blah, blah, 19th century tactics…Blah, blah, blah, outdated ideas blah, blah, blah…”

    Captain Piett: “Admiral, the landing Parties are prepped and the Fleet reports all fighter escorts are ready for insertion? Shall I prepare the Cruisers for low altitude orbit?”

    Admiral Daala: “Remind me again Captain, what is the tactical relevance of this system?”

    Captain Piett: “The Covenant seemed to have moved their ground forces around a single Covenant city. Mostly armour and infantry supported by limited air support. Their fleet was grounded when we entered their system so they may or not use their Assault carrier as a primary Planetary battery. As for local populations…”

    Admiral Daala: “Is this Planet listed as a tactical waypoint station?”

    Captain Piett: “No sir, the system is classified T0, tactically obsolete, as with most of the others in the area.”

    Admiral Daala: “Well then, commence orbital bombardment, reduce the surface and call in Imperial Devastators to salavge the Planet. If there is as much potential durasteel here as you say, the boys at the shipyards should be able to construct several new fleets out of the entire system.”

    Captain Piett: “Aye, aye sir.”

    – – –

    The Planet is bombarded by a Star Destroyer. All organic matter is destroyed in the resulting super-inferno that ignites the atmosphere of the Planet itself. Nothing survives.

    Winner: The Empire.

  96. AlphaCommando October 26, 2008 at 3:37 am -      #96

    There was much thunder stealing done here today, but that is irrelevant as you had a few concepts i skipped over anyway. And since the job is done, I really don’t care who did it.

    Also; WW2 was the epitome of perfect warfare….IMHO.

  97. swifterdeath October 26, 2008 at 12:34 pm -      #97

    L-W…really? do you even read peoples posts?…did you even read how i put up the scenraio?…i didnt say teh covenant would sit there hoping the SW guys would come im saying the covenant engage star wars guys…not they hope they come down -.- im saying the SW guys are still on hte planet…

    so i said a way to beat it not simply go around the scenario…and dont say that SW forces would never be on a planet when they didnt need it…mabey they didnt know Covie forces are on hte planet or mabey its one of there own planets with a high civilion count and it mabey has something importent on hte planet.

    instead of trying to get around it actually try and think about it!…and i wasent saying every single force o nthe planet i simply said a large group mabey a thousand of them to attack mabey double of triple of star wars forces…

    and grunts are extremly usefull as cannon fodder…thats actually one of there main purposes…to mass and act as cannon fodder so the elites and get closer without getting injured…while still firing there plasma pistols or plasma rifles. as well throwing some plasma grenades when htey get close.

    ok back to the AT-AT against scarab and really how long would it take for the AT-AT’s to get from space into the battle field? because i know scarabs can do that quite fast…as well the turret though used mainly for Anti-air is still plasma which is usefull for taking down shields so regardless it will still drain the shields fast…

    as well a scarab can be dropped from orbit and it only has to shake off for a few seconds…therefore if the covenant wants they can simply drop a scarab on the AT-AT…

    and the legs dont ‘cripple’ they simply buckel under the presure they then need to use there strength to force themselves back up so they simply drop two scarabs one infront and one behind a AT-AT they quickly fire on the AT-AT after it shoots the first scarab many times before it can even manage to completly shake off it explodes doing some decent damage but not alot to hte AT-AT now suddenly a large blast from the back draining there shields followed by many turret shots before the AT-AT can properly turn around another blast has been shot destroing the AT-AT the scarab then continues.

    now if it was two AT-AT’s then of course you would need 5 scarabs…but that would be no problem…

  98. swifterdeath October 26, 2008 at 12:35 pm -      #98

    sorry if i missed something once again if ive missed anything please tell me i was really tired last night but still didnt get enough sleep…

  99. L-W October 26, 2008 at 10:12 pm -      #99

    Well, that was a new batch of stupid. Here we go again!

    1) Star Wars orbital ship scanners can scan the total cell count of the entire planet even in intense EM storms, they would more than easily know if there were Covenant there and how many.

    The Empire was also willing to destroy it’s own population in an attempt to agitate the Rebels in the region, they would have no issue exterminating a planet of enemy civilian forces. Null and void pal, null and void.

    2) I’m not talking my way out of it, in fact I’ve even mentioned it twice in previous posts.

    You have little to no comprehension of modern battle tactics, for some reason you wish to adopt 17th Century SOL tactics which were made useless centuries ago in human warfare. Your backwards thinking and stale strategy is bound to actually get more Covenant killed by their own failure than the total sum of Troopers can achieve.

    I suggest you start reading up on modern battle tactics, especially WWII. WWII is the perfect summation of modern asymmetrical warfare, couple this with Sun Tzu’s Art of War and you should be able to debate with a history minor on battle tactics.

    3) Cannon fodder has been proven useless countless times since the invention of the repeating rifle and staged line defences of asymmetrical warfare. The slight damage incurred by the Grunts would be exceeded by the loss in manpower, weapons and personal materials. Not included is the transport, effective economy and severe drop in viable skirmishers and experienced personnel.

    Honestly, you make a poor tactician. Until you can get beyond the thinking of the 17-19th Century don’t even bother.

    4) You clearly don’t read anything do you? The Y-85 Titan Dropship is designed primarily for deployment of the AT-AT, thus it travels at speeds equatable to large Cruiser in atmospheric flight, meaning that wherever an AT-AT is in transit it is escorted by a fighter group.

    5) The Shielding of the AT-AT is resistant to long range Blaster cannon fire and anti-armour Torpedos deployed by armoured Speeders. The Plasma cannon of the Covenant would not be enough to drop the shielding in direct hit or even a sustained barrage. Especially when range is also an issue that you seem incapable of grasping.

    With the vastly superior range of the Turbolaser, AT-ATs can strike a Scarab long before they are within range.

    6) How will an Assault Carrier drop a Scarab ‘on’ an AT-AT when in the presence of an AT-AT requires the presence of several Star Destroyers in low orbit. How is the Carrier going to get by this when we’ve proven on *MANY* occasions that a Star Destroyer can defeat any Covenant cruisers.

  100. AlphaCommando October 26, 2008 at 11:41 pm -      #100

    Something to add to no. 6, assuming that a carrier does mange to drop a Scarab, objects in freefall typically can’t hit moving targets, and if the drop was from orbit it would take several minutes for the Scarab to make landfall. The AT-AT would be way out of the way before the Scarab impacted. Another thing to add is that Scarabs are large and broad making slow and easy to hit targets, during free fall all it would take is one blast from a dual turbo on a any Imperial vessel to turn it into raining scrap metal.

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