Published on November 20, 2009, by admin - Posted in Duels 625
Suggested by Julian Stone
For this match, Sauron has The One Ring To Rule Them All. Facing Alucard in a brutal fight to the end. Only one can survive despite how long the match might last.
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No, but he’s never fought someone this powerful. Also, he’s not completely surrounded, having to defend on all sides, in this.
“No, but he’s never fought someone this powerful.”
He wouldn’t realize how powerful Alucard is right away for him to do so.
“having to defend on all sides, in this. ”
I don’t follow.
Chill the fuck out. First off, answering your questions is not a top priority in my life, I have better things to do. Second, if you would have read correctly, which I’m surprised should even be an issue, you would have noticed that I said I was still looking. Factpile is obviously higher up on your to do list than it is on mine. Which either means that you have no life, or you have such a rewarding life that cannot be any more fulfilling that petty things like an online debate site become your way of killing time. I sincerely hope it’s the latter of the two, in which case, congratulations.
Now, where does it say that Alucard’s powers are limited to his health and state of being?
It clearly states that his powers can be summed up as “I think therefore I am.” Or am I missing something?
Now, Alucard can cause plenty of harm to Sauron via bullets, physical attacks, and his various types of shadow manifestations. Unless Sauron in the physical realm has shown resistance to any of these. And can I get a link to this realm that Sauron ca supposedly escape to at any time? Or a link showing a time when Sauron used this in the middle of a battle.
@REAPER: Sorry if I seemed a little aggressive in asking. Also, neither is the case, I just have nothing to do right now, on Summer weekends.
@Soldier: Basic knowledge of combatants. What I meant is, in all his other physical battles, he was surrounded on all sides by people who can follow him (High Elves), so it would have really no effect. However, Aucard probably cannot follow him, and he is free to shed his body from however far away he starts, or even efter he realizes how powerful Alucard is. He can’t attack in that form, but he can “camp” until he decides to attack Alucard. Alucard could also just think he’s intangible, then attack when he thinks he’s ready. Like, figure out their opponent, then attack when they have sufficient info.
Also, I have repeatedly given you a quote that shows information about the Unseen Side.
Man, you are still talking about spiritual form of Sauron, unbelievable. In this state nothing can hurt him, nothing is able to damage the spirit (soul in Tolkien works is indestructible by anyone except Eru) only wraiths can be harmed by special weapons even being in shadow world (becasuse they were alive before, and their bodies ,,faded” big surprise, everything is already proved). Sauron IS NOT a wraith, his shapeshifting ability is canon, as Alucard’s, they can both change shape (Alucard seems to have limited amount of forms he can take, Sauron can look whatever he like, snake, werewolf, vampire and this bodies are different than those belonging to incarnate races, meaning with bigger endurance, created and dissipated at will), when Sauron is without any physical manifestation he STILL can affect surroundings, and interact with other beings (Gandalf also known as Olorin interact in this state with elves, implementing ideas, inspirations, knowledge in their hearts and minds, Valar formed landscapes and fought with Morgoth also without bodies). And you still insist that Alucard can tear Sauron apart, by relying on his strength and speed, big deal Sauron also had superstrength and fought with speed oponents like elves, even in the Third Age Sauron had humanoid form but far greater than any man or elf, with greater stature comes bigger strength, like in case of Morgoth, who was real giant. Now Alucard’s guns, we don’t know how they would (or wouldn’t) work, Numenoreans had bows made of hollow steel, it is said that they had large range and, actually I’ll give some info on Numenoreans overall so you will see that they aren’t normal mortals:
,,‘This was the beginning of that people that in the Grey-elven speech are called the Dúnedain: the Númenóreans, Kings among Men. But they did not thus escape from the doom of death that Ilúvatar had set upon all Mankind, and they were mortal still, though their years were long, and they knew no sickness, ere the shadow fell upon them. Therefore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstborn than any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was like the bright stars.’”
‘In Númenor all journeyed from place to place on horseback; for in riding the Númenóreans, both men and women, took delight, and all the people of the land loved horses, treating them honourably and housing them nobly. They were trained to hear and answer calls from a great distance, and it is said in old tales that where there was great love between men and women and their favourite steeds they could be summoned at need by thought alone.’
‘The Númenóreans in their own land possessed horses, which they esteemed. But they did not use them in war; for all their wars were overseas. Also they were of great stature and strength, and their fully-equipped soldiers were accustomed to bear heavy armour and weapons. ’
‘The journey was probably at least three hundred and eight leagues as marched; but the soldiers of the Dúnedain, tall men of great strength and endurance, were accustomed to move fully-armed at eight leagues a day ‘with ease’: when they went in eight spells of a league, with short breaks at the end of each league, and one hour near midday. This made a ‘march’ of about ten and a half hours, in which they were walking eight hours. This pace they could maintain for long periods with adequate provision. In hast they could move much faster, at twelve leagues a day (or in great need more), but for shorter periods.’ For those who don’t know how much is it: they were capable of marching between twenty four and thirty six miles in a day..
‘Though it was a long journey, each of the Dúnedain carried in a sealed wallet on his belt a small phial of cordial and wafers of a waybread that would sustain life in him for many days – not indeed the miruvor or the lembas of the Eldar, but like them, for the medicine and other arts of Númenor were potent and not yet forgotten.’ they had some invigorating foodstuff
A Description of Númenor wrote:
‘In later days, in the wars upon Middle-earth, it was the bows of the Númenóreans that were most greatly feared. ‘The Men of the Sea’, it was said, ‘send before them a great cloud, as a rain turned to serpents, or a black hail tipped with steel’; and in those days the great cohorts of the King’s Archers used bows made of hollow steel, with black-feathered arrows a full ell long from point to notch.’
,,…our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring.” so you see Sauron’s enemies had all kinds of projectiles (not to mention that elves are the best archers) and still were not sufficient to deal with Sauron (who knows maybe he used some telekinesis based power, like Witch-king who broke Frodo’s sword at distance).
Concluding Alucard can’t hurt Sauron on spiritual plane, he can only follow him there but what’s the point? Alucard can’t make himself stronger because Schrodinger never did, all this referring to ,,Alucard thinks therefore he is” don’t relate to changing in terms of power (either physical or mental) he esixts if he believes so, appear in whatever place he want (and in two places at once probably), he can take damage and ,,repair” himself but never show that can made himself impervious (meaning that nothing can scratch him, rip off his arm or something).
“And you still insist that Alucard can tear Sauron apart, by relying on his strength and speed, big deal Sauron also had superstrength and fought with speed oponents like elves, even in the Third Age Sauron had humanoid form but far greater than any man or elf, with greater stature comes bigger strength, like in case of Morgoth, who was real giant.”
The reason why is because Sauron won’t flee to that spiritual world off the bat and by the time the idea may formulate, Alucard would have already inflicted enough damage on him that he’d be left as a soul until he finds a means of reforming which has been shown to take a really, really long time.
Off the bat, Alucard is capable of destroying Sauron and has shown greater speed that would allow him to do it once he gets bored.
“,,…our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring.” so you see Sauron’s enemies had all kinds of projectiles (not to mention that elves are the best archers) and still were not sufficient to deal with Sauron ”
Bullets > Arrows.
“r: Basic knowledge of combatants.”
Basic knowledge would not go so in depth as to give Sauron an idea of how powerful Alucard is, just who and what he is.
“nd he is free to shed his body from however far away he starts, or even efter he realizes how powerful Alucard is.”
If his body’s destroyed, he’ll have to make a new one and that has been proven to be a prolonged ordeal.
Shed. Not destroyed. He got rid of it, then he can make it again. When his body is forcibly destroyed, he loses power. If not, he doesn’t, so he sheds it willingly, and can make a new one.
Also, bullets don’t beat arrows as badly when they’re shot from steel bows and are almost 4 feet long. They beat them, just not as badly.
But, basic knowledge means he knows what his powers ARE. Sauron isn’t stupid, he’ll look for a way to mentally overpower Alucard, and if that fails, probablynescape until he has a plan. That’s what he did before, in the Hobbit, but then he had to study many powerful enemies and an entire continent. Now, he’s only got one opponent, so he needs less time to study to win (or at least not lose-that’s how I got stalemate.)
I apologize for the language, wasn’t necessary on my part.
@REAPER: That’s OK. Anyway, this seems to have no end in sight, as each has a safe haven where the other can’t reach.
I agree. Either someone presents something we haven’t mentioned, or this fight ends with both fighters duking it out then retreating to their respective safe zones.
,,The reason why is because Sauron won’t flee to that spiritual world off the bat and by the time the idea may formulate, Alucard would have already inflicted enough damage on him that he’d be left as a soul until he finds a means of reforming which has been shown to take a really, really long time.”
The point is we don’t know how much damage Alucard would cause, Sauron is rather durable:
,,‘Now the lightning increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the Temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the Temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a god and did all that he would.’” And example of Gandalf who survived the fall into the chasm in Moria (first being burned by fire and then hitting water with great speed) shows that bodies of Maiar can take much. Remember that reforming took so long because the ring was removed from him (and without it he was weakened). When the ring is secured even after forced removal of body like at the fall of Numenor he can take new form in short time.
,,As soon as the great catapults were set, with many yells and the creaking of rope and winch, they began to throw missiles marvelously high, so that they passed right above the battlement and fell thudding within the first circle of the City, and many of them by some secret art burst into flame as they came toppling down.’” Sauron has a flair for explosives .But seriously bullets and those darts of Numenor were quite similar, probably it was Sauron who helped to invent them (during his stay at Numenor):
,,’And behold what hath happened since, step by step, At first he revealed only secrets of craft, and taught the making of many things powerful and wonderful; and they seemed good. Our ships go now without the wind, and many are made of metal that sheareth hidden rocks, and they sink not in calm or storm; but they are no longer fair to look upon. Our towers grow ever stronger and climb ever higher, but beauty they leave behind upon earth. We who have no foes are embattled with impregnable fortresses – and mostly on the West. Our arms are multiplied as if for an agelong war, and men are ceasing to give love or care to the making of other things for use or delight. But our shields are impenetrable, our swords cannot be withstood, our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring. Where are our enemies? We have begun to slay one another. For Numenor now seems narrow, that was so large. Men covet, therefore, the lands that other families have long possessed. They fret as men in chains. “
Meaning Sauron invented steamships. Morgoth also may have invented automatons and/or battlemech-type things. Also, Saruman invented Greek Fire and other explosives. But that’s neither here nor there. So, yeah this is basically an endless stalemate.
So this ends in a stalemate?
…..Wonder why all those post vanished ay 1:00 last night….
Anyway what were we talking about?
Oh yes, whether or not Alucard could eat Sauron, and then use up his soul.
Alucard “eating” someone constitutes as a soul drain as they then become a familiar of his, such was the case of Rip Van Winkle and Tublacain Alhambra among others. Once Alucard tears them apart, he absorbs them as a part of him so how would Sauron be capable of responding back? Any similar instances in LotR?
Also, even if he doesn’t drain him, Alucard could simply destroy Sauron over and over again throughout their perpetual struggle and at some point, he’s bound to destroy the Ring, something more likely than Sauron suddenly realizing Alucard’s very vague weakness to mindrape.
“Alucard “eating” someone constitutes as a soul drain as they then become a familiar of his, such was the case of Rip Van Winkle and Tublacain Alhambra among others. Once Alucard tears them apart, he absorbs them as a part of him so how would Sauron be capable of responding back? Any similar instances in LotR? ”
In LotR’s only God can do anything at all to a “soul”(necromancy… isn’t quite the same thing), so no, if killing a soul is needed to kill Alucard, he’s completely safe in this fight.
So Alucard is winning?
“In LotR’s only God can do anything at all to a “soul””
Wait, now that I remember, Melkor can stop elven souls from passing on, as he did with the orcs….. That’s not going to be that useful here, but I guess it counts as “anything at all”.
Yeah but can Sauron do this? That’s a whole different power/divinity tier. one COULD argue as the Necromancer Sauron would have the magical ability (being Melkor/Morgoth’s arcane lackey, but this is speculation
“Yeah but can Sauron do this? That’s a whole different power/divinity tier. one COULD argue as the Necromancer Sauron would have the magical ability (being Melkor/Morgoth’s arcane lackey, but this is speculation”
As stopping Al’s “souls from passing on” actually you know… Helps Al, I’m not sure it really matters.
“at some point, he’s bound to destroy the Ring”
“something more likely than Sauron suddenly realizing Alucard’s very vague weakness to mindrape.”
Actually, Sauron’s PRIMARY attack in spirit form is a mind attack. Also, even with a body, it is also one of his primary attacks, especially with those that are potentially stronger than he is. When Ar-Pharazon attacked Mordor, Sauron did not even fight him physically. He merely came out and started working his will inside his opponents, all the while pretending he was submitting to THEIR will.
Also, even without the Ring, Sauron is a mind-game beast. With the aid of a seeing stone, Sauron invaded the minds of all those who looked inside over distances of hundreds of leagues. Not only that, he was actually controlling what they saw in it! Even in spirit form separated from his Ring, how would Alucard defeat Sauron? It took five Istari (Saruman and Gandalf were among them), Galadriel, and several other of the most powerful elves in Middle Earth to merely drive Sauron out of Dol Goldur. What exactly does Alucard have that could damage Sauron significantly in spirit form?
What is saurons armor made of?
“What is saurons armor made of?”
Honestly, I am not entirely sure. No real specifications were ever made in that regard. However, specifications were made as to what Morgoth’s armour was made of, which bears a striking resemblance to the stuff Sauron wears (if it isn’t just the same suit). THAT armour was made of iron; but not the iron that we think of in our world. This iron was actually an alloy developed by Morgoth himself, and it was REALLY tough stuff. I have a class right away, but I will see if I can post some of its strength feats when I get home; maybe in a few hours, maybe tomorrow.
Sauron can imprison spirits in bodies, as he did to the werewolves, so he may be able to do that to Alucard (if there aren’t just too many in him)
He has one,but thats schrodinger.
Corruption should count as a victory, as long as Alucard has fallen to Sauron’s will. That’s what happened to the Nazgul and Ar-Pharazon. It almost happened to Frodo twice.
I think that would be a big if as big as IF alucard ate could eat sauron.
Possibly, but…Hey, where DID all those posts go? I remember typing an answer in response to that Alucard eating Sauron, and it’s gone, along with some other stuff! Is it just my computer, or is somebody else missing stuff?
How durable is it? If its indestructible or something lame like that, can Sauron even return to the fight after being physically destroyed or is he like Darkseid and takes time to “respawn”? If its the latter, a bodily destruction should count as victory.
“Actually, Sauron’s PRIMARY attack in spirit form is a mind attack. ”
And this works how? Illusions are useless against Alucard, and mind rape would require him even knowing Alucard’s weakness to begin with.
“He merely came out and started working his will inside his opponents, all the while pretending he was submitting to THEIR will.”
Can you give specifics to this?
“With the aid of a seeing stone, Sauron invaded the minds of all those who looked inside over distances of hundreds of leagues. Not only that, he was actually controlling what they saw in it!”
With the aid of a seeing stone. Did that amplify his powers or anything or was it just a fancy named rock? If the former, its discredited.
“Even in spirit form separated from his Ring, how would Alucard defeat Sauron?”
There’d be no spirit form once Alucard absorbs him. All he has to do is turn Sauron to paste, drain his essence as he did to Luke Valentine, or brutalize him until he can devour him as he did to Rip and Dandy Man.
That “fancy rock” is a palantir, a seeing stone. It doesn’t boost but is kind of like magical video chat. This is very vaguely remembered but I believed they could be used for divination purposes too. He pretty much just used them to mind Fuck at a distance. It doesn’t bolster powers/abilities afaik
“Corruption” shouldn’t really count as a win, as it doesn’t preclude Al killing Sauron(you know the whole “You shall defeat the dark lord, only to rule in his place” thing the Ring was trying to get anyone of power to do), and really… Al isn’t that nice a guy to begin with.
The Palantir thing is actually a bad thing for Sauron when he was using them. They’re supposed to only be able to be controlled by the user, and he controlled it from the other end. He even broke Denethor’s mind (I’m sure this feat has been explained previously in this thread), while just passively sort of being there maliciously.
So does he regularly have this rock around or was it something special for a certain occasion or something?
Palantir usually chill on pedestals
This is one of the best stalemates i’ve found in a long time. Alucard’s powers only affect himself and can only die if he believes it will kill him (with the debatable exception of things like Balefire). Have we decided for sure which incarnation of Sauron we are using?
What do you mean by which incarnation?
Does he have to believe it will kill him (like, any ultra-powerful attack would do as it would most likely make him think that), or does he have to let it?
@DragonReborn: I think we might’ve, but I forget the version if we did.
@SS: It’s close enough for him to focus his thoughts on it. Somewhere in Barad-Dûr, but then again, the tower is like a mile high.
@ Soldier’s Shadow
“How durable is it? If its indestructible or something lame like that, can Sauron even return to the fight after being physically destroyed or is he like Darkseid and takes time to “respawn”? If its the latter, a bodily destruction should count as victory.”
It is just super strong. Definitely crack-able, but possibly bulletproof. wasn’t able to delve into the Silmarillion yesterday, will try today to get some updates on here. My bad about that. As for the bodily destruction thing, Yes it takes Sauron time to come back, but not a whole lot when the Ring. Anyways, there is only one reason I would not count Sauron’s bodily destruction as a victory. Suppose for a moment, that Sauron was separated from the Ring during the fight (note: the One Ring MUST be physically removed from the hand of Sauron before his body is destroyed, otherwise the Ring is still a part of him. Sauron’s entire body was destroyed once before in the Silmarillion, yet the Ring was still in Sauron’s possession while he only existed in spirit form. Sauron must be forcibly removed of the Ring before his body is destroyed for him to be separated from it.). So, if Sauron was separated from the Ring during the fight and his body was destroyed, I would not constitute this as a victory because Sauron CAN still attack:
1. Separated from the Ring
2. Via the Ring itself, which leads to your second question/statement.
“There’d be no spirit form once Alucard absorbs him. All he has to do is turn Sauron to paste, drain his essence as he did to Luke Valentine, or brutalize him until he can devour him as he did to Rip and Dandy Man.”
The real problem with that all hinges on Sauron’s ace, so to speak, in this match–the One Ring. The Ring is not only an enhancement of Sauron’s powers, but also his “life insurance,” so to speak. Sauron’s spirit and life force are present in the Ring itself, not just outside of it. Being a Maiar, Sauron’s spirit is only vulnerable to devourification (yeah, I make up words for fun sometimes) if Both Body and Ring are destroyed. Once that happens, his spirit is finally reduced to that of a mortal, which the book describes as being a spirit of malice endlessly roaming the earth for all the ages, too weak to do any harm whatsoever–or even be noticed, for that matter. Meaning once Sauron’s body and his Ring are out of the way, Alucard could absorb or devour his soul, but would not even need to, since Sauron would be left absolutely powerless for all eternity, like all the other Maiar that fell before him. Basically, Sauron would be as good as dead, even though he is still alive and watching the world go on. In other words, he is in Maiar hell.
“With the aid of a seeing stone. Did that amplify his powers or anything or was it just a fancy named rock? If the former, its discredited.”
The seeing stone just helped him do it across a distance of hundreds of leagues, that is all. He can and has done this straight up in front of somebody without the seeing stone. In fact, as mentioned before, what Sauron gained in distance he lost in power while manipulating the stone. The stone did him no favors as far as control goes. That is why he lost to Aragorn in the palantir match, though Aragorn was extremely weakened afterwards. Even if Sauron had the palantir for this match, it would be absolutely useless to him because:
1. Alucard is right in front of him
2. It would weaken the effects of his mind attacks.
“Can you give specifics to this?”
Oops, forgot to answer this question in my last post! What type of specifics are you looking for? I could give numerous instances, but unsure as to what you want. Direct quotes from the book?
Well Alucard himself can punch through a card that could cut through depleted uranium.
And his bullets are more like canon shells, 13mm explosive mercury tipped,to big for a man to shoot.
By the way, if this is Sauron with the ring, then if I’m reading this rule right.
“7. Achieving Victory
Unless specified otherwise by the scenario, all battles are fought to the death, and all plot shields (see rule number “8″) that would prevent combatants to fight this way are lifted or ignored.
Certain combatants may or may not have inherent restrictions or other unique conditions for their demise. Examples of this are Superman’s weakness to Kryptonite, and Sauron’s Ring of Power being unmade only by the elements that made it (Mount Doom). In these situations, certain elements may be compatible with similar items from other franchises/universes. However, said exclusive elements will be made available in the neutral arena. See rules number “9″ and “10″ for details regarding No Limit elements and compatibility between these.
Although victory is assumed to happen at the point of a defeated party’s death, and/or permanent incapacitation, there are a great number of other determining factors, particularly in the case of immortal or near-immortal combatants, to be taken into consideration for a final victory. See rule number “1″ for the channels to following order to reach an official determination.”
Then if Al doesn’t have a way to destroy it, then their fighting on Mt. Doom.
Or does it say that if there’s anyway at all in Al’s universes, then it will be made available to him?
I wish these rules were written clearer, I really do.
I have nothing to add besides this: Alucards powers would ultimately be useless against the Ring-bearing Maiar, but they would allow him to survive whatever Sauron could throw at him. This fight would go on until Al got bored and thought of himself as someplace else.
Sooo is this still a stalemate?
“It is just super strong. Definitely crack-able, but possibly bulletproof. wasn’t able to delve into the Silmarillion yesterday, will try today to get some updates on here. My bad about that. ”
Not a problem, mate.
So, its possibly bulletproof? But what about to 13mm mercury tipped explosive rounds? That’s quite a bit more than your basic bullet. Also, Alucard has pierced through depleted uranium before with his sheer strength alone so that could be possible if the Ring isn’t more durable than DU.
“Suppose for a moment, that Sauron was separated from the Ring during the fight (note: the One Ring MUST be physically removed from the hand of Sauron before his body is destroyed, otherwise the Ring is still a part of him. Sauron’s entire body was destroyed once before in the Silmarillion, yet the Ring was still in Sauron’s possession while he only existed in spirit form.”
If it was this thread where I read it, didn’t it take Sauron centuries to return to his physical form? While living that whole time until he returns isn’t of concern to Alucard as he’s immortal, wouldn’t that be a bit too long away from the battlefield to consider the match “ongoing”?
“Sauron’s spirit and life force are present in the Ring itself, not just outside of it. Being a Maiar, Sauron’s spirit is only vulnerable to devourification”
By devourficiation, what do you mean in LotR lore? Being soul trapped or fucked?
“Oops, forgot to answer this question in my last post! What type of specifics are you looking for? I could give numerous instances, but unsure as to what you want. Direct quotes from the book?”
Specifics on how Sauron mentally overwhelmed those opponents like whether it took him an extended period of time or not or if it was an instant/short amount.
“Also, Alucard has pierced through depleted uranium before with his sheer strength alone so that could be possible if the Ring isn’t more durable than DU.”
Sry, don’t know what depleted uranium is. Could you describe it?
“While living that whole time until he returns isn’t of concern to Alucard as he’s immortal, wouldn’t that be a bit too long away from the battlefield to consider the match “ongoing”?”
It would be if Sauron was incapable of fighting without a body. However, the only reason I said Bodily destruction wouldn’t really count as defeat for Sauron is because he can still attack without his body, even if Alucard managed to separate him from the Ring before Sauron’s body was destroyed. If I still haven’t worded it right, plz let me know so I can try and explain it better. Either that, or let me know if I am misinterpreting your question (something I have been known to do at times).
“By devourficiation, what do you mean in LotR lore?”
In terms of LotR lore, I guess the best example would be simply that–devoured. Consumed. Into an endless fiery void. I suppose the best example of this would be Ungoliant. She was probably one of the only things capable of literally consuming the Ring, along with the spirit that inhabits it, into nothingness.
“Specifics on how Sauron mentally overwhelmed those opponents like whether it took him an extended period of time or not or if it was an instant/short amount.”
I’ll get into this particular question as soon as I can. I just got home from two basketball games in a tournament, and I have an advanced Driver’s test tomorrow morning. Frankly, I’m bushed. Hopefully tomorrow…
Ok, here we go! Just came out of an extensive search in the Silmarillion to answer y’all’s questions, so hopefully I don’t botch this up.
As for the armour, as was mentioned before, it is made of iron, but not like the iron of our world. This was a black iron, similar to the stuff Orc chieftans and captains wore, but a good deal stronger. Incidentally, this is what a regular Japanese Katana can do to bullets (I apologize for the voiceover; it’s horrendous!!!!):
That shown, what could enhanced iron do?
Perhaps the best instance I can find of the armour’s durability relates to legendary weapons of old made by Telchar of Nogrod, arguably the greatest smith in LotR-verse history. Two of the weapons he made (cousins to each other) are tested against both Sauron and Morgoth–Angrist and Narsil. And as we shall see, they both suffered a similar fate.
So, Morgoth made a crown for himself and placed the three most priceless items in the universe in it–the Three Silmarils. Each Silmaril was, according to the book, too strong to ever be broken. When Beren and Luthien assault Morgoth’s castle, Bereth gets a chance to grab Morgoth’s crown. Taking Angrist, the dagger, he actually manages to loosen the Silmaril free of the crown. But when Beren goes to try and remove another Silmaril, the blade can’t take it and snaps, flying away so fast that it hits Morgoth in the cheek and cuts him.
These blades, along with Narsil, were designed to cut through all flesh and armour effortlessly. Anda as already stated, iron is a good deal stronger in Middle Earth than here. Incidentally, Angrist was stated to be so strong that “iron it would cleave as if it were green wood.” (p. 208, The Silmarillion). Likewise, Narsil was tested against Sauron’s own armour, and we all know how that test ended.
As beefy as the armour is, it is not without its weak spots. Like all metal armour, it has creases. Morgoth was wounded seven times while wearing that armour, and Sauron himself was separated from the Ring due to creases allowing for finger movement. Alucard would do well to aim his shots for the creases. However, his repeated best option is to somehow separate Sauron from the Ring.
Soldier’s shadow, as to your inquiry on Sauron’s deception technique, and the time involved, I have an answer here:
Sauron, with the strength of Mordor and the One Ring at his disposal, was set to make an assault upon Middle-Earth when, across the sea, came a power even greater than himself–Ar-Pharazon the Golden. Not even Sauron’s hordes attempted to fight Ar-Pharazon and his army, they simply hid away and Ar-Pharazon marched straight into Mordor without a single fight. Here Sauron sat, waiting to see whether the King would fight him or not. Ar-Pharazon commanded him to come out of his fortress, and he did. All men knew what he was at this point–Sauron had been making war upon all the free lands of Middle Earth for centuries, and Ar-Pharazon’s army was in Mordor for no other purpose than to end Sauron once and for all. In other words, there was a lot of hate against Sauron present in this atmosphere, and they knew precisely what they were dealing with–a heartless, cunning, treacherous Dark Lord that was a servant of Middle Earth’s equivalent to Lucifer! Yet, when Sauron comes out of the tower, instead of being jumped at once and hacked to pieces, or at least even subdued, he simply stands there and talks to the hosts like old friends. “…and men wondered, for all that he said seemed to be fair and wise.” The hosts were won over instantly, but the King was harder to handle. He still did not trust Sauron, but the Dark Lord’s trickery had extended far enough that he was convinced to hold Sauron hostage instead of destroying Sauron outright, like he had previously intended to do. So Sauron’s mind muckery begins to take effect instantly, even against opponents who are dead set on destroying him and know exactly what he is. Granted, the full effects take considerable time to manifest themselves, but Sauron’s greatest weapon in mind muckery is subtlety. In only three years, Sauron had gone from prisoner to the King’s most trusted advisor. One year after that, the book states that Sauron ruled all from behind the throne, even though Ar-Pharazon was still King. Though Sauron has started numerous civil wars at this point, still no one contests him. A few years later, Sauron’s full plan gets fulfilled, and he convinces Ar-Pharazon and his entire army to sail across the sea and get themselves massacred by gods. This was Sauron BY HIMSELF using mind powers on hundreds of thousands of enemies at once. With only one opponent to worry about (and I KNOW it is Alucard who has a ridiculously strong mind), Sauron still poses a great threat even if he does not put up a fight physically.
Incidentally, even through a seeing stone(which limits Sauron’s potency of mindmucking), Sauron can still KILL extremely strong-minded opponents by simply breaking their minds, such as Lord Denethor. Pippin, one of the few people in all of Middle Earth resilient enough to handle the Ring without worrying about immediate corruption, almost died. Even Aragon, the rightful wielder of the seeing stones and therefore equipped with the power to cast Sauron out of them, nearly died from looking into the Palantir. At this point, Sauron neither had his physical form nor the Ring, and he is STILL pwning high-end minds like these, all the while being limited to the stone! Sauron, put mildly, is a mind-game monster.
Sry it took so long, but I hope that clears up a lot of confusion and questions. I will wait to post feats on the Ring’s durability until I can get some info on the durability of Depleted Uranium.
Here you can see the depleated uranium slicing through the shields,armor of multiple ghouls back to back. And is said to be an anti tank rifle.
“Here you can see the depleated uranium slicing through the shields,armor of multiple ghouls back to back. And is said to be an anti tank rifle.”
So depleted uranium sounds like the LotR equivalent to Angrist. Give or take a bit. Thx, man.
No prob bob (if that is your real name)
And this is the card cutting through the bullet,and later alucard cutting through the card.
Ouch. Dunno if that’l get through Sauron’s armour, but that’l definitely separate the Ring from Sauron if Alucard gets close enough to jab a crease. Unfortunately, isn’t enough to destroy the Ring itself, tho…
” Sry, don’t know what depleted uranium is. Could you describe it?”
Part of the composition that makes up the M1 Abrams tank. Tanks RPGs, 125mm tank rounds, and various other ordinances such as air to surface missiles.
“In terms of LotR lore, I guess the best example would be simply that–devoured. Consumed.”
Alucard can do that to Sauron once he turns him into a fine red paste by destroying his body or by getting an opportunity to bite him. That way, he absorbs his soul and it becomes a apart of Alucard like the other beings he’s absorbed upon destroying them in the past.
” With only one opponent to worry about (and I KNOW it is Alucard who has a ridiculously strong mind), Sauron still poses a great threat even if he does not put up a fight physically.”
While I can see that Sauron is indeed extremely powerful in the mind fucking field, it stills seems he’s required sufficient time to do so over time to beat individuals like that King you mentioned in that quote. How did he perform his powers on Pippin or Aragon, two mentally powerful opponents, that you mentioned?
“Alucard can do that to Sauron once he turns him into a fine red paste by destroying his body or by getting an opportunity to bite him. That way, he absorbs his soul and it becomes a apart of Alucard like the other beings he’s absorbed upon destroying them in the past.”
My point was, in order for Alucard to pull that off, he’s gonna need to crack the Ring first. “Sauron’s life force is bound to the Ring, and the Ring survived!”–Gandalf
Yes, for the full effects, I agree. However, he is active the entire time, and the initial effects do take place immediately, even on those strong-minded individuals that still don’t trust him on initial contact. Like Ar-Pharazon.
“How did he perform his powers on Pippin or Aragon, two mentally powerful opponents, that you mentioned?”
I may have to break out Return of the King tomorrow…but it’s been a long day, and I have exams to study for. I will answer that question as soon as I can. Thx for your patience.
“No prob bob (if that is your real name)”
It’s not, but I’ve never had a nickname, so…wutev. U can call me Bob, I guess, lol
““How did he perform his powers on Pippin or Aragon, two mentally powerful opponents, that you mentioned?”
Thx for waiting, everyone, I am back to answer this question.
First off; Pippin. Pippin was one of four hobbits to be a member of the Fellowship. These hobbits showed not only extraordinary courage in exceedingly daunting circumstances, but they all showed extraordinary resilience to the mind-bending/corrupting properties of evil, notably the One Ring. Pippin, in the book The Two Towers, finds the seeing stone and looks into it. Unfortunately, even though the seeing stones were the King’s property and he had the full power to use it, Sauron had found a way to control them already. As a result, when Pippin looked in, he saw a bunch of lights, and then they suddenly went out. Pippin then saw something else–not in the stone, but in his mind. It was Sauron. Then Pippin gave “…a strangled cry…fell back and lay still.”
Pippin didn’t move again until Gandalf checked to see if he was breathing and lay a hand on his head. Pippin woke up convulsing and screaming something that Sauron had told him during his…experience. Gandalf asked Pippin what happened, and this next part is better told in Pippin’s words:
“Then HE came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood.
SAURON: So, you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
Pippin: “I did not answer.”
SAURON: Who are you?
Pippin: “I still did not answer, but it hurt me horribly, and he pressed me, so I said, “a hobbit.” Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled.”
SAURON: “Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Say just that.”
And Pippin wakes up screaming those exact words. Pippin ends the description by saying, “Then he gloated over me. I felt I was falling to pieces. No, no!”
In addition, we find out that even though Pippin almost died from the encounter, he might have died in truth had Sauron not thought Pippin had the Ring. This we learn from Gandalf:
“…he [Sauron] was too eager. He did not want information only: he wanted YOU [Pippin], quickly, so he could deal with you in the Dark Tower, slowly.”
Second case, Aragorn. He alone had the power to wrest the Palantir from Sauron’s grip, because he was the Heir of Gondor, last of the Ancient Bloodline. He was successful, but this describes his encounter with Sauron:
“But Merry had eyes only for Aragorn, so startling was the change that he saw in him, as if in one night many years had fallen on his head. Grim was his face, grey-hued and weary.” Aragorn described his experience as “A struggle somewhat grimmer for my part than the battle of the Hornburg…” For those who have never read the Books, in that battle, aside from being attacked constantly, Aragorn was nearly killed on two specific occasions.
So these mind attacks seem to depend on,causing pain. If i am right,that may not work,MAY,being the opperative word. Because Alucard during the whole series,showed pain once i think only once.
Would the Third eye help get out,of this if i may ask?
“So these mind attacks seem to depend on,causing pain. If i am right,that may not work,MAY,being the opperative word. Because Alucard during the whole series,showed pain once i think only once.”
What you are mentioning is the by-products of the attack. Just like if someone stabbed me in the chest, Yeah, it would hurt a LOT, but the pain is only a by-product of the attack, right? Whether I felt pain or not, the end result would still be the same–I die. Likewise, the end result of Sauron’s attacks is their mind simply…well, breaking. Like Lord Denethor’s did.
“Would the Third eye help get out,of this if i may ask?”
What’s the Third Eye?
The Third eye is basically vampires in hellsing defense against mind attacks.
It gives them the ability ti see through illusions,see great distances.
“It gives them the ability ti see through illusions,see great distances.”
Is that all it does?
One must remember that Sauron Is a mystical beast. Morgoth had lieutenants that were stronger/more destructive, but none were as powerful in spellcraft or mind games. Eru himself (God) had to send Gandalf back with a power boost just to help against Sauron. His nickname is the Necromancer. And has been stated earlier when the elder elves and the istari combined has to drive him out. Gandalf is a maiar,, as is Saruman and Sauron. That’s like saying it takes several super saiyans and some super namekians to drive away ONE super saiyan (dbz analogy). His presence alone corrupts. this is the strength of Sauron
“Morgoth had lieutenants that were stronger/more destructive, but none were as powerful in spellcraft or mind games. Eru himself (God) had to send Gandalf back with a power boost just to help against Sauron.”
This is true. Sauron was Morgoth’s second-in command for a reason. Of all Morgoth’s followers, Sauron resembles Morgoth the most.
So basically he is broly of his universe.
Pree close…a mastermind, and a master of minds. The Devil’s right hand man (no joke, Melkor is actually LotR’s version of the Devil!)
To the other readers of Hellsing,Do you think Alucard can still release control art restrictions? At least up to one,i think 0 is out .
@PxP: Actually, wouldn’t it be more like several Super Saiyan 1′s and 2′s + several super Nemekians to drive away one lvl 3 SS?
If that helps my analogy then by all means. As a side note his armor should definitely be Badass. After all Sauron was a maiar apprentice to the forge Valar (Aule I think was the name? Please verify/correct) before going to the dark side (Melkor/Morgoth). This enabled him, along with his formidable spellcraft, forge the rings of power and his own. His armor therefore SHOULD be to tier. Speculation over lol
“After all Sauron was a maiar apprentice to the forge Valar (Aule I think was the name? Please verify/correct) before going to the dark side (Melkor/Morgoth). This enabled him, along with his formidable spellcraft, forge the rings of power and his own. His armor therefore SHOULD be to tier. Speculation over lol”
I outlaid the durability of Sauron’s armour in the first half of post #349.
I believe the bullet was cut because the katana is so sharp, not so hard, though it is. But yeah, his armor should be very strong. Isn’t Angrist supposed to be stronger than Narsil? I don’t think Morgoth’s Crown would be weaker than Sauron’s armor.
So what is the strongest thing the armor has tanked?
“Isn’t Angrist supposed to be stronger than Narsil?”
They were made as cousin weapons to each other. One was given to the Numenoreans, and the other to the elves.
“I don’t think Morgoth’s Crown would be weaker than Sauron’s armor.”
No damage to the crown itself was ever recorded. All we know is that the Silmaril was pried loose, as it was only held in place by the iron claw.
Also, it is not stated as to how many blows Sauron’s armour tanked before Narsil broke, though. Sauron could have sustained one blow or dozens from the vagueness of the passage. All we know is that when Gil-Galad and Elendil were slain after assaulting Sauron (together, I might add), Narsil was in pieces. Because Sauron’s armour bears such close resemblance to Morgoth’s, I would think they were the same suit (minus the crown, of course, that was remade into a collar for Morgoth’s neck), or at the very least have the same durability, seeing as Sauron knew all of Morgoth’s forging techniques, as well as a few tricks the Dwarfs and Elves taught him.
“So what is the strongest thing the armor has tanked?”
If it is Morgoth’s armour, then it has tanked Fingolfin’s sword (though the Elf-King was very good at cutting between the creases), forged by Feanor, the most powerful Elf to ever live (and arguably the greates smith ever, seeing as he created the Silmarils, which held universal divine essence in them). The crown tanked Angrist, as was mentioned before, and (if Sauron’s armour is the same suit) Narsil.
Now for the most impressive feat. Morgoth’s armour has tanked blows from Tulkas, the most powerful warrior in all LotR verse. Tulkas was a mystical character that randomly showed up a little while after Morgoth’s rebellion. This guy was not a Maiar originally (nobody knew WHAT he was), but Eru (God) made him an honorary Maiar just because he was such a boss. That aside, Tulkas is LotR’s god of war, in a nutshell. Nothing at all recorded in LotR had ever come close to Tulkas in terms of strength or fighting ability, and that includes powerhouse beings like Gothmog, chief of Balrogs, Glaurung, father of all dragons, and Ancalagon the Black, mightiest (and also the largest) of all dragons. Tulkas is the ONLY person to faceplant-curbstomp Morgoth in a one-on one fight, and he did this in Morgoth’s STRONGEST incarnation, back before Morgoth poured his power into creating his countless armies, fortresses, werewolves, dragons, and such. That armour is pretty durable to say the least, and Sauron’s, if not the same suit, would be just as strong for reasons stated in post #374.
Sooooo…in laymans terms,he took some strong sword strikes?
i have never watched/read LotR so i cant ball park any of that. So is that mountain busting durability, or more,or less?
“Sooooo…in laymans terms,he took some strong sword strikes?”
And blows from a Balrog-smiting god.
“So is that mountain busting durability, or more,or less?”
Wouldn’t go that far, but would (at minimum) house-sized boulders do?
Ok how sized boulders is something i can work with, So house sized boulder durability,I have to see how damaging 13mm bullets would be to that,and Depleated uranium.
Here is something else to help your search, Ammo. Since you have never read LotR, THIS is a Balrog:
Morgoth makes Balrogs look like kittens. Tulkas eats these guys for lunch. Hence why I mentioned a bare minimum figure.
That thing looks like Wars chaos form,a little.
Hmm thats impressive,looks beast.
“Hmm thats impressive,looks beast.”
It is. Gandalf, resurrected after that fight for the sole purpose of contending with Sauron (thus becoming a Deus ex Machina for the good guys just so they could win), died fighting just one of those things (seen at the end of the clip as well). According to the Silmarillion (no exaggeration!), Tulkas beats up his foes to a pulp, laughing the whole time. Obviously thinks it’s funny to pulverize the Devil’s finest.
Alucard blows full armored people apart.
Shoots through Andersons bayonets
Andersons bayonets are tough
Thx for the feats! Couldn’t tell whether or not the bayonets were getting shot through, or just getting shot out of the way, though…any way to slow it down?
I dont think i can,but i could see if it happened in the Manga.
Cool beans, thx man.
i skimmed the thread is there any real way that he could kill alucard?
Doesnt seem that breaking the bayonets is that impressive.
She did it with a regular gun,so yea not that impressive,the Aim is but the strength of the feat isnt.
Well, now we have definite proof that Alucard can easily aim for chinks when the openings present themselves; if he can withstand Sauron’s mind powers to get a few shots in before he is “preoccupied” mentally, so to speak.
The same could be said for Sauron. You know, this is turning out to be one of those frustratingly awesome matches like Soma Cruz vs Ganondorf was. So tight on either side, with no definitive absolute ways (as of yet) of one putting the other down. What’s Alucard’s strongest mind feat?
so does that make it a matter of making him reveal a weak point in his armor? this is a very interesting match
Alucard doesnt have any mind feats i dont remember unless you power scale. With his mind he did move a military aircraft carrier with a plane crashed into it. But thats TK not mind defense.
Soma vs Ganon was indeed a great one very well balanced.
“so does that make it a matter of making him reveal a weak point in his armor?”
For Sauron’s physical attacks, yes. If he is hit with enough blows (and Sauron can tank a LOT, plus he is a shape-shifter), then his body will crumble to pieces inside his armour. However, if Alucard does not forcibly relieve Sauron of the Ring before this stage, Sauron will just make himself another body. If Alucard DOES remove the Ring, Sauron is unable to attack physically, but now he has TWO points of attack on Alucard’s mind–one through himself, and another through the One Ring.
“this is a very interesting match”
Ikr? Found it this weekend and couldn’t believe it; got so excited!
would he have enough information to know he has to remove the ring? and didn’t 13thVamp post something about him having resistance to mind attacks?
” But thats TK not mind defense.”
Yes, I see your point.
Seeing as Alucard does not have a way to destroy the Ring with what he has, I say we should move this fight to the location of Mt. Doom. That way, Sauron also has limits on what he has to work with on Alucard time-wise. If Alucard separates Sauron from the Ring and heads for Mt. Doom to take care of business, Sauron is on a clock to convince Alucard to keep the Ring for himself. If Sauron succeeds, he achieves victory, for the Ring will corrupt Alucard, and Sauron will finish the job once in close enough proximity (seeing as though he does not have a seeing stone for long-range mind attack). That way, either Sauron loses via irreparable destruction, of Alucard loses through corruption and enslavement, becoming another of Sauron’s deadly servants (like the Witch King).
“would he have enough information to know he has to remove the ring? and didn’t 13thVamp post something about him having resistance to mind attacks?”
He’d probably figure it out after the first or second time Sauron came back…and meanwhile Sauron will probably have to take a little bit to figure out that this opponent can be beaten solely through mind games.
And what sort of resistance to mind attacks are we taking here?
He does have resistence because of the third eye protectes the mind because it doesnt work on the human plane. But he doesn show anything because the only person who could have attacked his mind seras killed.
And seras broke illusions before she became a full draculina,and Alucard is by far stronger than her and more experienced with his powers.
But he can read minds i think,well the wiki said he could but i dont remember him doing so, also Hellsing the dawn,is out and may bring feats when its done but idk when he plans to work on it there is 6 or 7 chapters out so far.
are we allowed to change the match that way? if so yes i agree
If we can i agree also
“That way, either Sauron loses via irreparable destruction, of Alucard loses through corruption and enslavement, becoming another of Sauron’s deadly servants (like the Witch King).”
Only when someone strong takes the One Rig, it’s always talked about how they’d de throne Sauron and become as big an evil themselves, not how he’d just enslave them.
He enslaved the nine bevause he had the one, if Alucard has it, then clearly he wouldn’t anymore.
Corruption=/=enslavement, and so=/=victory.
well that changes things
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