Suggested by AHEM
Well, AHEM certainly knows how to get a lot of his suggestions posted…Anyways, this is a fun match that I will have to stay out of since we all know which side I’m going with. In fact, I’m pretty sure Richard could win the entire match by himself.
The battle takes place with both continents on the same world, with all characters and creatures (minus gods) available at full power to fight.
Which side wins?
@AHEM
Are you there for the new page?
This isn’t Super Smash Bros, isn’t it, AHEM?
“Yikes!
He’s capable of soloing all of Alagaesia even if the exact same conditions like on this match were to apply?
Not good.”
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Sephiroth? I’m not so sure about that. I’m not the biggest expert on his abilities. It depends on which things I’ve heard are actually true to his abilities and which are just fanboying.
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“What about Pondering Fool, AHEM?
What are the odds that he might even get back with half as much frequency as you’re doing, for that matter?”
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Again, I don’t know. I haven’t seen or communicated with these people for at least a year or so. I don’t even know what they’re doing, and certainly not whether or not they’ll return here.
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“How many tons is a mountain?
Its doubtful that its of 300+ tons, unless we’re talking Galbatorix(possible exception to the rule) then again no one ever asks me about why I have doubts.”
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I looked up some calculated estimates, and the weight of mountains is often estimated in the millions of tons (for small mountains) up to trillions of tons (if we’re talking about, say, Mount Everest). Now, the Spine mountains are not exceptionally large or small for mountains (they’re about a mile high, I believe), but the Beor Mountains are around twice the height of Mount Everest. (Ten to twelve miles, as opposed to Everest’s five and a half.)
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“This isn’t Super Smash Bros, isn’t it, AHEM?”
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Naw, I haven’t played that in years.
@AHEM
The only things that are agreed on to be truth as it stands is that the One-winged Psycho can’t tire out anymore, Post-Crisis Core incarnations, he can fly and he can teleport, the rest are up in the air as of late and I am feeling inclined(as ever) to doubt he has high-end healing spells.
Unless Madamoiselle Ruliya or Soldier’s Shadow wish to indulge us otherwise, in which case, I’ll listen to what they have to say!
One thing is for sure, Original!-timeline Tenchi Masaki destroyed him to the point of no return, anyone who’s enough of a Badass to rip the One-winged Psycho a new bloody Asshole as quickly as Original!-timeline Tenchi did, can even fight it out with Honsou of the Iron Warriors, get his power armor to go haywire on him, and may even be able to move in for the kill!
Let’s just be glad that you are back, even Cpt. Olimar may as well greet you if he ever makes public posts back on the main site itself once again, I’m sure, he too got driven off by Mike Rahl, it seems.
It still doesn’t change the fact that anyone who could hold up to 300+ tons is still capable of punching Eragon’s head clean off if the blow were allowed to connect(Murtagh’s debatable, Galbatorix probably not, though!) still.
Yikes!!!
Meantime, what else do we have on the Seithr Oil of Alagaesia being of use against the Sword of Truth onslaught?
“It still doesn’t change the fact that anyone who could hold up to 300+ tons is still capable of punching Eragon’s head clean off if the blow were allowed to connect(Murtagh’s debatable, Galbatorix probably not, though!) still.”
Yes, but where did this come from? Why did it come up?
I think your taking that too literally Commander, they meant with magic they could lift mountains. Just like with Kratos if they were that strong anyone they hit would be turned into a blood mist.
“Yikes!
He’s capable of soloing all of Alagaesia even if the exact same conditions like on this match were to apply?
Not good.”
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I never said anything about Sephiroth soloing Alagaesia. I said theres nobody in Alagaesia who can match him one on one in terms of physical ability
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Stop claiming im saying things I obviously didn’t
@SR
Never said that you said it, that’s just the impression I was getting, is all. =_=’
@Admiral
Partially my bad, its obvious if we’re talking on pure physical lifting strength alone none of the Alagaesian Dragon Riders(Except maybe Galbatorix) can naturally lift up to 300+ tons, as far as I’m aware.
Oh, well I didn’t imply Sephi could solo either
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Speaking of which, whats this about magically lifting mountains?
Oromis the dragon rider said that he would be able to lift mountains with his magic. Of course the spell to do so would probably take a good length of time to correctly word considering the immense amount of effort that would most likely be needed. I doubt simply using a levitation spell would work.
@Admiral
Unless they were Galbatorix, the odds of the Alagaesian Dragon Riders being able to pull off such a complicated spell in time before someone with more natural physical strength than they do punches their heads clean off would just be impractical to risk unless they got prep-time to access!
Luckily for the Alagaesians, they have no individual from Sword of Truth who’d be confirmed to hold up to 300+ tons…at least as it stands!
Moot point is Moot!
He said he could move mountains, not lift them. Also, if he gave someone else his sword he may be able to use his mind to do that spell, but that would very dangerous with so much energy.
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@CC: I don’t see how that’s a moot point. You do know what that means, right?
How does anyone think the various types of magic users should be used. There’s witches/warlocks, magicians, sorcerers/sorceresses, Riders, wizards, etc. Also, what if a magic user thought their spell in words, giving more structure and more speed.
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Also, does anyone think it’s silly to use suggest a match with Fakémon? Because, seriously, Xairou’s Fakémon are so detailed that I’m pretty sure they rival the real Pokémon, or even surpass them.
@Epic
It means that given enough time, most Alagaesian Dragon Riders could unleash quite a nasty spell to contend with.
If anyone has two working brain-cells together, they won’t allow said riders to get that time, Rand al’Thor from the Wheel of Time certainly wouldn’t do that for Eragon, that’s for sure.
Also, the Dresden Files already did it, they managed to prove how it could be possible, but there’s more stability for them than there is for the Alagaesians.
They can do it from afar. Leave one behind. Why don’t we debate the normal people?
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I fell like I’m pushing this, plus this is off-topic, but seriously, look at these:
xairou.deviantart.com/gallery/?q=Fakemon
@Epic
Finally we’re getting into places, already!
How many races in Alagaesia have we already covered, thus far?
We didn’t get to the usefulness in Seithr Oil, either.
The Fakemon…I wonder what sort of group would be best-advised for them to fight.
@Admiral
You got more info to bring, yet?
Where does Roran fit in there as far as fighting tactics would be concerned?
Obviously he’d pale in a significant degree compared to guys like Tavi from Codex Alera or Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time, and a lot of the brightest of Ravenclaws would outwit him more times than not except for life-or-death matters, but its not like Roran’s negative in terms of actually using tactics or strategies, is he?(Potentially speaking, at least!)
@AHEM
As ever, pardon the bluntness, but are you okay, your Imperator?
@Everyone else
Who else wants in to resume the kombat?
Anyone Else, Councilor Aelfinn included, perhaps?
Where is Councilor Aelfinn when you need him?
We’ve covered Elves, Dwarves, Humans, and Urgals. So, all of them.Saithr Oil is for torture, though I suppose they could dip arrows in it. Roran… I don’t know. I suppose he’d be a match for most non-magic users, maybe even some who do. What about sorcerers?
“Speaking of which, whats this about magically lifting mountains?”
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This does come from a line in the books, but it might be taken out of proportion.
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“For over a hundred years, Glaedr and I have stored every iota of our excess strength in this diamond, and others have added their strength to the pool as well; twice a week, several elves from Ellesméra visit me here and transfer as much of their life force into the gem as they can without killing themselves. The amount of energy contained within this stone is formidable, Eragon; with it, I could shift an entire mountain.”-Oromis, “Brisingr”, chapter “Leave-taking,” page 691.
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Oromis was making an estimate based on how much energy he felt was in the gem; he’d never actually moved a mountain with it, and couldn’t have, given that the energy could only be used once before needing to be recharged, and lifting a mountain for some reason would be perhaps the most useless thing to do with so much power.
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He also said “shift,” not “lift.” There is a large difference between moving the mass of a mountain an inch or two to the side, and lifting that entire mass a noticeable distance off of the ground and holding it in the air. Oromis certainly wouldn’t have been able to use a mountain as a weapon even if he could have moved it.
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We’ve never seen energy of this magnitude be transferred into strength, and indeed, it probably wouldn’t be practical. The only thing close to a quantification of strength in Alagaësia was Brom’s statement about the Riders having “the strength of ten men.” Once in Brisingr, Eragon broke one of the bones in his hands when striking (and killing) an armored soldier, and only solved this problem for future clashes when he used magic to grow enormous calluses over his knuckles. It seems unlikely to me that a living being could safely direct so much energy through their body and translate it into striking strength without, at the very least, making similar augmentations to their body on a much more pervasive scale. And really, why do that when you can just channel that energy into striking force without touching the opponent just by saying “jierda”?
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“Meantime, what else do we have on the Seithr Oil of Alagaesia being of use against the Sword of Truth onslaught?”
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Seithr Oil’s acidic properties are considered fairly normal (dissolving bone and muscle), but it’s main selling point is that it does not affect anything that wasn’t “part of an animal or human.” This is what Brom has to say about it:
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“This has made it a weapon of choice for torture and assassination. It can be stored in wood, slathered on the point of a spear, or dripped unto sheets so that the next person to touch them will be burned. There are myriad uses for it, limited only by your ingenuity.”-Brom, “Eragon,” chapter “Through a Dragon’s Eye,” page 166.
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The main limitation of Seithr Oil is that it is considered fairly rare and expensive, mostly dealt with by rich traders and imperial agents, because it requires the use of an oil from a northern plant that is altered by “certain words” being spoken over it along with a blood sacrifice. The Ra’zac are the most frequent users of it.
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“Where does Roran fit in there as far as fighting tactics would be concerned?”
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He is the leader of Palancar Valley since “Eldest” and a military commander for the Varden since “Brisingr.” He is both an incredibly strong and talented warrior (once killed 193 men in one battle and turned a seeming defeat into a victory), inspires unshakable courage from those who follow him, and has been known to win great victories against seemingly impossible odds.
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“As ever, pardon the bluntness, but are you okay, your Imperator?”
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Of course I am. Why wouldn’t I be? I know I comment a bit sporadically, but that’s my tendency. Sometimes I feel like spending extra time commenting on a thread and checking back every so often, and other days I’m busy or don’t feel much like commenting and so only show up once or twice a day.
@AHEM
Interesting…Seithr Oil can actually be used to craft lethal poisons if the Alagaesians had the cunning required to pull it off, correctly, right?
Where to begin on the Sword of Truth races, next?
We’re just glad someone of the old guard alongside the Lord General Mata(who just became one of the site Admins) has returned, you would be enough, Mazrim’s, Skrunks’, or Pondering Fool’s returns would be bonus kudos, right now!
“Interesting…Seithr Oil can actually be used to craft lethal poisons if the Alagaesians had the cunning required to pull it off, correctly, right?”
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Yes, it would effectively be acid that wouldn’t harm the cup it was stored in. However, it would have to be drunk quickly, otherwise the individual to be poisoned would sense the burning sensation in their mouths and spit it out. Of course, Brom did say that if you drank it, “only a puddle” would be left of you.
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“Where to begin on the Sword of Truth races, next?”
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Well, it’s mostly human-dominated, as opposed to the multi-race structure in Alagaësia. There are dragons, which are pretty rare in the current day. There are night wisps, who wouldn’t really contribute much to this fight as they have no known means of harming anything and are physically vulnerable (to fire). The Mriswith are technically corrupted and mutated humans, with one queen resembling a dragon. There are numerous Underworld beasts, but they show little to no sign of intelligence and are more like undead monsters. In fact, most of the creatures of magic themselves are either quaint little societies of odd creatures in some corner of the Midlands that don’t have much to contribute, or are simply humans given powers (Confessors, Dreamwalkers, Mord-Sith, etc). The closest to a separate race would be the intelligent variants of gars…but they are an entirely different species from humans and only vaguely similar, much more different from them than, say, elves or dwarves.
@AHEM
So Seithr Oil is not a potential weapon to be underestimated lightly, right?
That’s almost like the Potter-world items and gear and other such things, how reliable they would be to any individuals that had to carry them if we’re talking the Modern Potter-world residents in general, to make up for the power-gaps between them and their Medieval Ancestors. T_T’
Granted, Seithr Oil is more subtle than most of them, I’ll admit(it makes up for the Magic systems between the two even though the Alagaesians might have better practitioners for their own magic systems to make up for it!), but if any military tactician with 2 working brain-cells were smart, they’d find a way to capitolize on such oil to begin with.
If the Sword of Truth Races are mostly human-dominated, does that mean that Humanity in general made up for the majority to a far greater extent than Alagaesia’s case would, then?
“If the Sword of Truth Races are mostly human-dominated, does that mean that Humanity in general made up for the majority to a far greater extent than Alagaesia’s case would, then?”
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Humans make up the majority in Alagaësia as well, but not to the same extent as in Sword of Truth.
@AHEM
Do tell.
Care to elaborate more on the matters, in fact?
I’m starting to think Edward Elric could be able to get Eragon in 1-vs-1, depending on where such a match would take place, really.
“Do tell.
Care to elaborate more on the matters, in fact?”
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In Alagaësia, humans have spread across the continent and become the dominant, most numerous race, partly due to their quickness to reproduce (in comparison with elves and dwarves). The urgals were forced into harsh land and have only been allowed to spread a bit farther when the Rider were destroyed. The dwarves and elves reproduce at a slower rate and seem to be outnumbered by humans as well. The Ra’zac/Lethrblaka were down to four members at the time of the books, with some eggs of their kind hidden elsewhere, waiting to hatch. The dragons were on the verge of extinction as well, until a cache of eggs were found. However, I don’t think the humans are more numerous than, say, all the other races combined. (Exact population figures are never given, though, so this is partially guesswork.)
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In SoT, humans make up virtually all intelligent life. The only other lifeforms are creatures, animals, and transformed humans. The short-tailed variety of gars seem to be the only ones who approach human intelligence without having once been humans…at least, probably not. They were created by the ancient wizards to combat the Mriswith, who have been known to turn humans into creatures and weapons before, but I don’t remember them being stated to have once been human in any of the books.
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There are a few other creatures of magic that seem to be intelligent and sentient but aren’t anything like humans, but those are mainly obscure beings living in some regions of the Midlands, like the night wisps, and don’t really have a significant presence compared to humans or much to offer in this match-up.
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Alagaësia: 50% of intelligent beings are humans, probably.
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SoT: 90% of intelligent beings are humans, more like.
@AHEM
I wonder if Sword of Truth may or may not be biased in regards to the amounts of species in the Sword of Truth universe, actually.
Granted, they still heavily outnumber and outgun the Alagaesians, so the Alagaesians don’t have the luxuries or room to talk, right?
So what other vital weapons does Alagaesia bring fourth to fight back against the Sword of Truth onslaught?
We already covered the Seithr Oil, but what else?
“So what other vital weapons does Alagaesia bring fourth to fight back against the Sword of Truth onslaught?
We already covered the Seithr Oil, but what else?”
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The death words and telepathy would be the main magical ones. The Eldunarya are essential in matching the power of SoT magic. Shruikan is a primary artillery division unto himself. The remaining Rider’s swords and other unbreakable weapons could be an important advantage if they were used to arm a small corps of elite soldiers. I believe in “Inheritance” we also saw some crystals, used by the cult of Helgrind, used to prevent magicians from using their powers. Other than that, I can’t think of very many weapons that Alagaësia possesses that SoT does not, as they’re around the same level of technology.
@AHEM
So is it true that its possible to mass-replicate Swords of Truth to leave at the hands of Elite Fighting Forces on the Sword of Truth side?
If so, to what degree compared to the remaining Dragon Rider Swords of Alagaesia?
P.S: If the site wasn’t so hellbent at screwing over the Potter-world, I would have liked to try to get some Potter-world vs. dot.hack matches up and running, one of these days.
“So is it true that its possible to mass-replicate Swords of Truth to leave at the hands of Elite Fighting Forces on the Sword of Truth side?”
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Only the ancient wizards were able to create a Sword of Truth, and only then after many years of attempts and failures in which many people died trying to. When Richard gained the knowledge in the Temple of the Winds, he was able to make a Sword of Truth using his magic, with apparant ease, and destroy it just as quickly. However, he lost that knowledge. Even after he returned the Temple of the Winds to the world, he didn’t seem to possess the mastery of his gift that he did inside of it.
@AHEM
So it might have been either a misrecollection if not outright wankage or some other kind of inaccuracy going on?
Bummer for the Sword of Truth side, then.
@AHEM
Also, why didn’t anyone bother to draw Rahl + Voldemort killing each other at the exact same time already, yet? =_=’
@AHEM
So ready to respond to #’s 535 + 536?
I’m inclined to believe that for the latter to not be drawn yet, the site must be hellsbent at screwing the Potter-world over, then again in general(especially during November 2011-April 2012 in general) the site pretty much went to hell while you were gone, frankly speaking.
“So it might have been either a misrecollection if not outright wankage or some other kind of inaccuracy going on?
Bummer for the Sword of Truth side, then.”
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There’s been plenty of that in the last two years or so, so I’d say that’s fairly likely.
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“Also, why didn’t anyone bother to draw Rahl + Voldemort killing each other at the exact same time already, yet? =_=’”
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It’s not THAT important. I’m all for the match ending that way, but the main reason why I’d want Rahl to lose or draw with someone is for the sake of proving that his powers are not infinite and that he’s another character with strengths and limitations, not the all-powerful god that a certain unmentionable, unspeakable, wanking, severely insane fanboy spent so much time trying to paint him as.
@AHEM
The fact that its there adds to the levels of YIKES going on!
Even I already noted that neither Potter nor Haseo are invincible and that its possible to kill either outright, trying to get a mutually Badass fight for the former is a Difficult but Awesome task for anyone with the balls and the guts required to engage with the pursuit*, and I even noted its not out of the question for Harry ‘Pumpkin-headed’ Dresden to actually beat Haseo and even kill him in a life-or-death fight between the two*, and Dresden can already get Rahl if they aren’t even starting at the same exact location, or at least they get started at 180 meters, really.
Would Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl do the trick, after Rand al’Thor vs Richard Rahl comes to an end?
1.) (There’s a reason why to this day, the Potter-world involved matches from September to October 2011 are essentially Badass Incarnate, or at least as close to it as can be managed, and the Potter-world involved matches afterward are severely lacking, and judgement alone is the least of our problems in general!) T_T’
2.) (This is if we’re talking Pre-Apocalyptic Trilogy incarnations, especially the Post-Changes Pre-AT incarnations, of course!Let’s face it, the Pre-Apocalyptic Trilogy incarnations of Dresden should expect to face all hells breaking loose before seeing any real ending to such a showdown at all, frankly!)
@Ahem
Harry Dresden proved able of overcoming current Eragon, through magical versatility and a spell that destroys wards and the ability to cut Eragon off from the Eldunari and Saphira’s magic pools.
@Admiral
Not to mention having the Badassitude that would require Jason, his sister in the Neo-Thalia(AKA Thalia Grace, the lady who debuted with Ramona Flowers from the world of Scott Pilgrim), and all their remaining 1st cousins to properly have a shot to compete against, let alone having a hope at beating Winter Knight!-Dresden, for that matter!
Even then, I don’t even know if their combined might would be enough to get the better of Dresden successfully, for that matter, its easier having any of the children of the 3 sons of Kronos fight it out with Current!-Eragon with enough thought and equipment being permitted to them, compared to fighting Current!-Dresden, really.
Something tells me we’d be better off hazarding Xth form Haseo vs Current!-Eragon or Murtagh than have it be asked on the odds of the remaining children of the 3 sons of Kronos vs Winter Knight!-Dresden, really, and given that match locations for the former would be vital to contend with, that’s saying a lot. T_T’
@AHEM
To boot with the Admrial’s news, Dresden himself actually has more intriguing personal development and stuff than Rahl or Eragon does, even at the worst of times.(Don’t know how many cases I could say it for, like I’d be for Haseo, Potter or the children of the 3 sons of Kronos in general from CHB fame, really!)
So what vital weapons does Sword of Truth have on its side if we’re talking about items?
I’ve never read SoT so can’t compare the character development
@Admiral
What about when it comes to the Inheritance series?
I’d definitely be siding with the Potter-world or the dot.hack universe against the Inheritance series if we’re talking about developments in either sides’ worlds, no questions asked.
“Would Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl do the trick, after Rand al’Thor vs Richard Rahl comes to an end?”
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That sounds like an interesting battle.
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“Harry Dresden proved able of overcoming current Eragon, through magical versatility and a spell that destroys wards and the ability to cut Eragon off from the Eldunari and Saphira’s magic pools.”
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Really? Well, that definitely seems like the kind of abilities that would make short work of Eragon, given his dependence on wards, his dragon, and Eldunarya.
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I might have to go read part of the Eragon vs. Harry Dresden thread, maybe.
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“So what vital weapons does Sword of Truth have on its side if we’re talking about items?”
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There aren’t really that many. The Sword of Truth is one. A Sister of the Dark made an enchanted sword on a similar level, once. Other than that, most of the combat in that series is carried out either with comparatively mundane weapons, or magic.
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There are some pretty intense enchantments and constructed magics available in SoT, though. These are pretty rare, because the knowledge to make them has been lost and Richard is the only one with a war wizard’s gift nowadays, but Zedd was able to dig up a few from the wizard’s keep. One created a small army of “phantom horseman” that were unleashed once and killed thousands of the Imperial Order. Another was a colossal light spell that devestated an army with an effect similar to a modern nuclear weapon and was estimated to have a kill rating in the range of 500,000 to 1,000,000.
@AHEM
Then it has potential, right?
I’d be rooting for Dresden all the way, but its fair to warn you to cut right to the 1st 3 pages of Dresden vs Eragon and then get to the last 2 pages, okay?
Eragon should count his lucky stars he’s not to fight it out with Haseo, yet, because to get hit with Data Drain or Freeze-Shot would be akin to getting hit with a fusion of Solvos and something akin to the Potter-world Unforgivable curses, actually.(Freeze-shot is more likelier to insta-kill someone if its aimed at the head than Data Drain is, but both are the last things Eragon needs to worry about getting hit by, frankly!Hopefully such a match would be like Kratos vs Harry Dresden in terms of Badassitude potency, really!)
So SoT doesn’t have any potential items or weapons on par with Seithr Oil in terms of subtility, right?
@Ahem
if you do sorry about the mess, kind of turned into lots of offtopic discussion due to no one being there to debate it.
I’ll find the link to where it started up and feats were posted though.
But yeah I figured the same thing. Dresden’s shield is made to block magic and he brings it up at the speed of though, he practically specializes in fire magic and redirecting spells and has shown the ability to sense someone getting ready to cast a spell. Eragon usually not always but usually has to say a sentence or two worth of spells to get past someones shield (although I had a rule that death words weren’t instakill if only because I wasn’t sure if Dresden’s shield would block those and I didn’t want it to be a stomp.) Add in ability to put a circle around Eragon and cut off drawing on any outside magic and a spell that has the description of destroying wards (defensive magic of any kind other than Dresden’s shield) which is pretty specific of a magic defense. Dresden also has shown more elemental versatility using combat water and ice and lightning spells as well as combative earth spells many of which Eragon has not shown a lot of use in or not shown at all in the case of ice. That and Dresden carries a revolver standard. It might not work with the wards up but without them it should.
If you look over Dresden’s other fights though there are plenty of feats, probably the one with the most listed stuff would be his win over Kratos. Though he has definitively beaten Shang Tsung (not awarded yet) tied a Black Templar Space Marine, is in a bit of a deadlock with Sephiroth, stomped Nicholas Flamel like Godzilla vs Bambi, and took on and conquered Twilight vamps and wolf shapeshifter guys werewolves if you want to call them. He also, I think, has the win over a Balrog. Overall he has a pretty good track record on the site
@Admiral
If Slacker’s match comes to fruition, please don’t hold it against me if I gotta go side with Skullhead, Haseo, Kiritsugu or Percy Jackson in that match, okay?
Remember when I noted to you that Dresden cannot afford to lose unless he were engaging the 1st two on the site?(Granted its agreed that unless Dresden went for the Darkhollow Ritual that the latter of the two isn’t to use all 8 of the Morganna Factors, but still…)
This is gonna be one of those matches where I might make an exception to the rule, plus the Dragonborn might be there, too!
Also, for a way for Dresden to kill the Black Templar in an Ironic way, could you remind Dresden to be ready to call the Black Templar a heretic, since this means of an ironic death is long coming and its up to Cold Days to show whether or not its happening?
Also, with Dr. Fate vs Dr. Strange, best thing to rival that would be E.U Post-Endor Luke Skywalker vs. Original Timeline!-Tenchi Masaki, actually.
@AHEM
Needless to say, Pumpkin-headed Dresden has the Badassitude(Scope-wise, at least) to fight anything!
Rest in Peace, Messmaker.
“Then it has potential, right?”
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Yes.
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“So SoT doesn’t have any potential items or weapons on par with Seithr Oil in terms of subtility, right?”
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None that I can think of. The most “subtle” weapon from SoT would probably be placing spells on people from a distance using the drawings practiced in Tamarang. However, that would require at least a rudimentary knowledge of the person to be spelled (enough to produce a recognizable image of them).
@AHEM
So we can agree to this:
After the Rand vs Richard matter is dealt with, we can then suggest Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl, right?
Just let Dresden know he’s about to fight another Magi-terrorist and he’ll be fine.(isn’t Dresden always fine when he’s aware he’s fighting either Magi-terrorists or Sentient Illegal Weaponry, in general to begin with?Although the mere Magi-convicts, he’d generally try to spare their lives for, if possible!)
So Sword of Truth doesn’t have a lot of item-based weapons that could be used to subtly kill lots of enemies like Alagaesia might, right?
@Ahem
there a quick way to learn the actual capabilities of Richard? I really don’t want to try and look over him vs Rand again. I want to know more about his abilities though if we’re going to have that matchup.
@Admiral
All the more reason to get more info so we can all plan it out somehow, since Dresden will essentially be fighting a Magi-terrorist and stuff like that?(granted, not too horrid compared to Jagang, but WHY take the chance, much?)
@AHEM
If I said that Post-Dark Days Pre-Deathbringer Skulduggery Pleasant would be enough to fight it out with Current!-Eragon at this time, since Post-Deathbringer would just mutilate Eragon all over the place, would you believe me?
If Richard, Zedd, or someone else important was captured, what if Galbatorix used their True Name to make them fight their own side? Also, does SoT have a counter to the NoaN?
@Epic
Let’s let AHEM respond to this, shall we?
@AHEM
Are you there, still?
I would say that a completely valid counter to anything that Alagaesia has would be reinvoking Orden. Perhaps it’s ‘cheap’ but it’s also completely effective. Even if you assume that Orden cannot be utilized to directly destroy Alagaesia, Orden can, clearly, be used to BFR them all at once, and clone the Chimes to send after them.
@Kytheros
Shall we just wait on what AHEM has to say on the matter for more info to be provided?
Also, mind heading to Annabeth Chase vs Clary Fray, since Annabeth might need a hand unless you’d rather go to Jace Wayland vs Jason to help Jason get Jace, via now?
@AHEM
Are you still there?
Well, the Alagaesian gods CLEARLY beat Orden seeing as there’s more of them. Oh wait, they can’t, because there are no gods here.
@Admiral
Mind paying this baby a visit, then?
Also, hope you have a copy of The Lost Hero, via now for this matter before you do.
*back to kombat*
I thought AHEM barred the use of Orden.
@AHEM
Did you find anything worth recalling for Sword of Truth?
Hello?
Anyone still there?
“After the Rand vs Richard matter is dealt with, we can then suggest Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl, right?”
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Agreed.
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“So Sword of Truth doesn’t have a lot of item-based weapons that could be used to subtly kill lots of enemies like Alagaesia might, right?”
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Well, there are quite a few examples of constructed magic, but only so many, since the secrets to making them have been lost. However, those are usually big and obvious, not subtle. There might possibly be some things I’m forgetting on SoT’s side, though. Eleven books there, after all.
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“If I said that Post-Dark Days Pre-Deathbringer Skulduggery Pleasant would be enough to fight it out with Current!-Eragon at this time, since Post-Deathbringer would just mutilate Eragon all over the place, would you believe me?”
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I know nothing about Skulduggery Pleasant, so I’d wait to find out more about them and hear what they are capable of before making any judgments.
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“If Richard, Zedd, or someone else important was captured, what if Galbatorix used their True Name to make them fight their own side?”
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This possibility was mentioned in the early days of this thread. The possibility of Galbatorix using a SoT character’s true name to control them is as real as the threat of Confession turning an Empire or Varden character to SoT’s side.
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“Also, does SoT have a counter to the NoaN?”
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That depends. What will the NoaN be used for?
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“I thought AHEM barred the use of Orden.”
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That was my intention when I suggested this match. The mortal forces of both sides against each other. No Orden, or Keeper, no Creator, no Dwarf Gods, nothing like that.
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“there a quick way to learn the actual capabilities of Richard? I really don’t want to try and look over him vs Rand again. I want to know more about his abilities though if we’re going to have that matchup.”
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He’s a very strong and athletic human who spent most of his life as a woodsman. When he touches his magic, he can perceive time in an extreme slow motion, up to a fraction of second seeming like an hour to him, but his body still moves at regular speed. Becoming the Seeker of Truth enabled him to draw memories of hundreds of warriors who had used the Sword of Truth before him, making him an incredibly skilled blademaster even when he doesn’t use the sword. With the Sword of Truth, a Seeker’s strikes have “speed and power Richard could scarcely believe,” (Wizard’s First Rule, chapter 10, page 125) and fell a maple tree (with Zedd stating that the Sword of Truth could easily cut through a tree made of solid iron). The Sword cannot harm anyone Richard does not think is an enemy and/or guilty enough to deserve death, unless he invokes the White Magic, which he can only use on someone he either loves or forgives entirely. (It is more powerful, but he strongly dislikes using the White Magic.) The Sword of Truth is very durable and has on some occasions resisted magic and protected Richard from memory alteration, but is not indestructible, as Richard once destroyed another Sword of Truth with his magic. Richard is very strong, quick, and perceptive, but seems to be limited by human limits. The only occasional of him demonstrating anything near superhuman strength was when he ripped out the spine of an enemy with his bare hands, something an ordinary human couldn’t have done. How he did this was never explained.
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Richard is also a war wizard. He cannot use his magic consciously, and so usually only invokes it when in a state of extreme rage, or when he feels a great deal of “need” (re: needs to do something to get the plot going.) He tends to rely on his swordsmanship more than his magic. He has demonstrated the abilities of moving objects with his mind, getting a vague sense when danger is coming, guiding arrows to be more accurate, hardening the air to form shields and/or stop arrows, creating magical fire, erasing objects from the world, shooting lightning, creating explosions, etc. Other magic users of less power than him have created crystal shields which deflect lightning, formed blades out of the air strong enough to cut an armored soldier in half, stopped people’s hearts, healing severe injuries including mortal wounds and severed limbs, created illusions, cast “wizard’s webs” over objects to leave lasting enchantments, setting magical booby traps that explode when someone passes them, forming shields that protect their entire body at all times, holding enemies in place, etc. There are probably more examples, but that’s as many as I can think of at the moment.
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Richard is the center of the Rahl Bond, and thus, no telepath can enter his mind.
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The most extreme act of destruction that Richard has ever accomplished was the destruction of roughly 1,000 cavalry soldiers and their horses with a single attack. Wizards in SoT seem to become steadily exhausted as they continue to use magic, though Richard’s limit seems to be pretty high. Richard also mentioned that even with his magic, he would not be able to kill the entire army of the Imperial Order by himself.
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That help?
@AHEM
So 1st off, deal with Rand vs Rahl, then get to Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl, right?
(To be honest If I were even convinced he’d get access to his broom, I might even back up Potter in there at least for the sake of a deadlock-fest, and if he can decapitate Rahl somehow=Bonus Kudos and all the better, I know the unlikelihood of this happening, but a guy can dream, can he?If Potter himself don’t cut it, there’s always guys like Haseo to fall back on, I’ll let it wait until Jason of Camp Half-Blood or Gavin Guile have more novels involving them in kombat before I find out if they have good odds as well, one of them is holding out well enough against Eragon, so we’ll see!)
Is it just me, or does SoT generally have the subtility of a Nuclear Bomb that’s too blatantly obvious for its own good, compared to Alagaesia’s, let alone the Potter-world’s or the dot.hack universe’s, respective cases when it comes to potentially lethal weapons or powers?(Granted, the dot.hack-verse isn’t perfect, but it tries to make sense out of illegal Supernatural powers!)
Thanks, AHEM, if we wanted to hear about any of them barring the Big-G man factored in, that’s what we might have a 3-vs-2 universe fight with the Butcher Side as the Two in question for, right?(granted, the 3 in question might include the Potter-world, Camp Half-Blood and the dot.hack universe, but still…there it is!And its already agreed not for Marvel to be directly involved or the 3 series/meta-series above get back-up from either Super Robot Wars or the Tenchi Muyo Universe or even both, in kind!)
So barring the FPR stipulation for both(its a double-edged sword, and while I agree it shouldn’t be barred outright in matches in general, its to be used with caution if any if we need to be general!I could name examples where it’d make sense for it to be applied but that’s a matter for another time!) all that Book!-Richard has that would be a legitimate threat to Dresden would be Magical Firepower(not sure if Rahl has more Firepower than Dresden necessarily, and its a moot point if it doesn’t hit Dresden in time, as even Data Drain + its variations have better odds of hitting Dresden himself than a lot of Rahl’s magical attacks do!)
The Potter-world in general doesn’t have that to worry about, at least not via merely casting spells(thank the lucky stars they don’t!Now if only the practictioners in general were up to par for the Modern Potter-world…) the dot.hack-verse might have to worry about running out of Magic for their Magic Scores(unlike the Potter-world cases, they don’t have a canon!-UMS* to back them up unless you’re beings like Helba or Zelkova or any of the Phase Monsters themselves at their prime, as far as I’m aware!Dresden!-verse godlings + ArchAngels on the other hand…let’s not go there, they might have a Canon!-UMS, themselves and Dresden’s closer to getting one himself than Eragon is, like FAR CLOSER, at that!) and for the Hekate Cabin of Camp Half-Blood, its not yet clear if they also have that matter to worry about, but their relatives can get drained if they tried to use their Supernatural powers offensively if we’re talking on a general basis.
Well that makes two of them between Dresden + Richard, granted Dresden might not be immune to mind-readers outright, but given his defenses without even Anti-Mind rape equipment, its impressive that his defenses happen to be very Badass indeed, so Rahl should count his lucky stars that as far as its known, he can’t read his enemies’ minds.
As a matter of fact, Your Imperator, it does.
1.) (*UMS* = Unlimited Magic Score!)
Okay, so overall about mid low high tier magic user when he uses it. Above Gandalf tier below peak power Strange tier like Dresden.
Could you go a bit more in depth on white magic? I’m assuming it’s not like standard white black magic situation based on what you said.
A lot of his personal magic feats seem pretty similar to Dresden’s fire lightning explosions tk. Current Dresden is above peak human in strength now it looks like after he uhm sealed a deal with Mab Queen of the Winter Court of the Sidhe(Faeries).
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Mind thing probably wouldn’t come into play unless Rahl initiates it and if he does it’s game over. Dresdenverse wizards have an interesting mental combat style, kind of like Alagaesia’s where it’s a battle, but…anything you picture becomes real and can be used on the opponent. from ants to Voltron to Transforming Deathstar Space Marines from Hell if Dresden thinks it in mental combat Rahl would have to get through it. That and things like the Omega Bomb or whatever it was called from old Transformers. So mind battles not a place Rahl wants to go anyway.
I’d have to say Dresden’s highest kill count with a single spell was about….several million vampires give or take a million. It was an extremely situation dependent spell that Dresden probably wouldn’t be able to pull without being somewhere like Stonehenge, Chichen Itza, DemonReach for an in universe only one, or maybe Giza. And it would take special equipment and shit and he’d have to capture a descendant, of Rahl, like the blood line goes up from the person in question to Rahl. Still though if we’re talking highest kill counts Dresden has an impressive number under his belt, situationaly specific but huge nonetheless.
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Another thing Richard does not want to do is have prolonged eye contact of any kind. He does that and he gets pulled into a soulgaze, he has to see Dresden’s soul and Dresden has to see his. Not a big deal in and of itself other than you can’t move while it’s happening and depending on how used to it or your mental state in some cases, mental discipline not to go into extreme rages would be required I think. Your going to be stunned for a moment or two at worst shaken at the least. Of course depending one the soul in question things could go worse or better for you. Unfortunately for Rahl Dresden has had a Fallen Angel, the right hand temptress of Satans right hand man, in his head, is stained by a soldier of the Old Ones, as in Cthulhus bosses and that is a noticable thing in a soul gaze, has tangoed with a being that counts as an elder god, and is the Knight of the Winter Court of the Sidhe meaning he had to seal the deal with Mab (both in the it was a deal and he got lucky senses of the phrase) which likely left a mark on him. Of some kind, oh and the genocide of an entire species of vampire probably wasn’t too cleansing for the soul, though Dresden has met Gods Black Ops Archangel and hangs out with him so to speak sometimes so no idea what that fact would have on the state of Dresden’s soul. He’s also one of the only people born under the stars when they were aligned in such a way he can pimp smack anyone from Cthulhu’s side of the tracks. I doubt Richard will be knocked out like some people who have never done it will be but stunned is a decent possibility, it’s a one time with a person thing but it could give Dresden a chance to char broil Richard, and since he prefers sword fighting and has to get close to Dresden, a soul gaze is definitely going to happen.
Entities such as the Creator and the Keeper are gods in SoT.
Orden isn’t a god. It’s an artifact made by mortal hands. An obscenely powerful artifact, true, but an artifact nonetheless. One that has rules about utilizing it safely, but still an object or artifact/item, rather than a creature or entity.
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At any rate … wouldn’t the ‘full power’ version of Richard be the Richard from the Temple of Winds who knew how to use his magic? And created a clone of the SoT on a whim?
@Admiral on #567
Let’s agree to point out that Dresden(as the Winter Knight with standard powers, only) is currently so laughably and ludicrously above the Mauve Shirts among the White Council Wardens(who’d require the minimum of 4-5 Potter-World Mauve Shirt Aurors per squad just to have a hope in fighting off ONE Mauve Shirt Warden and have a hope in winning + surviving from such an engagement!) that its not funny so much as its nightmare fuel bordering on Night Terror Fuel for anyone who has to fight him, agreed?
Also with said Standard Powers only, his kill count is currently so far above the combined confirmed totals of Haseo, Percy Jackson and Potter as it stands, common sense says Dresden’s potency would most likely be higher if they were given two differing enemy armies to deal with(except for Dresden’s and the other 3′s respective sides, that’s another pool of tapeworms + wax to deal with!) as it stands, and said standard powers factored in, one of the 3 also has immortals who could buff up the stats of the 3 if they need it just as Dresden does, to boot.
Yeah, Dresden’s that kind of Cousafrakkin’ Badass, actually!(Not even literally speaking either, at least as of yet as far as I’m aware!)
The idea of Rahl looking at the Legion of the Damned…not a pretty picture for him, and it gets worse if you add the Daleks of Dr. Who or the likes of Tenchi Masaki to the mix, right?(Provided he watches Tenchi Muyo or any of its related series, I mean!)
Rahl also killed people with Magic, its not quite clear how many of them exactly deserved it either, no doubt that’s gonna be another factor for Rahl to contend with, because if he killed too many ill-deserved among the people he did kill with Magic, its gonna bite him in the skull royally in the process, dealing with a bloodlusted Dresden would be the least of his worries, actually.
@AHEM
Is this a start?
Also, another thing to note:
If Rahl isn’t a father(Biological or otherwise) as Dresden canonically is, already, then just to make it clear, take everything short of his daughter away from him, and you’ve basically given Dresden nothing left to lose, pretty much.
@AHEM
You think Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl has potential to rival Dante vs Vergil in terms of levels of violence potency, or do you think it might wind up going above that, really?
@AHEM
Are you awake?
The NoaN could be used to do anything really. And couldn’t True Names or an oath in the Ancient Language be used to prevent Confession? How does that work? Does the victim need to be in front of them?
“So 1st off, deal with Rand vs Rahl, then get to Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl, right”
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Yes.
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“Is it just me, or does SoT generally have the subtility of a Nuclear Bomb that’s too blatantly obvious for its own good, compared to Alagaesia’s, let alone the Potter-world’s or the dot.hack universe’s, respective cases when it comes to potentially lethal weapons or powers?”
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Well, given the effects of the colossal light spell, the subtlety of a nuclear bomb wouldn’t be a bad comparison.
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“Could you go a bit more in depth on white magic? I’m assuming it’s not like standard white black magic situation based on what you said.”
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The Sword of Truth contains at least two magics, which are separate. (A Mord-Sith capturing and controlling the rage aspect of the sword didn’t prevent Richard from using the White Magic.) The first draws upon Richard’s anger to strike down enemies, but inflicts emotional and physical pain on him unless he is in a state of high anger, which helps to shield him from it. The White Magic, a more obscure and esoteric magic that only a few know about. It draws upon love and forgiveness, as opposed to hatred and rage. It is more powerful than the rage aspect (it pierced magical defenses that deflected the “normal” Sword of Truth) and can be used to strike down even those Richard doesn’t believe are enemies, but inflicts excruciating emotional pain on him, as he can effectively only use it on someone that he has forgiven entirely and thus doesn’t truly want to kill. He only used it to kill twice, both when he had no other options, and seemed to suffer from lingering guilt after the first time.
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“Mind thing probably wouldn’t come into play unless Rahl initiates it and if he does it’s game over.”
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Richard has never displayed the ability to enter or attack the minds of his enemies. He isn’t a Dreamwalker or a Confessor, after all.
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“Orden isn’t a god. It’s an artifact made by mortal hands. An obscenely powerful artifact, true, but an artifact nonetheless. One that has rules about utilizing it safely, but still an object or artifact/item, rather than a creature or entity.”
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It was always my intention to have this fight without Orden. I should have been more clear about that in the description, I guess. The point is that Orden is a very godlike power and essentially an “I win” button that reduces the fight to the forces of the world being directed against Alagaësia. If SoT used Orden, then they’d win, no arguments there, but I’d rather know whether or not the forces of SoT could defeat Alagaësia without it.
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“At any rate … wouldn’t the ‘full power’ version of Richard be the Richard from the Temple of Winds who knew how to use his magic? And created a clone of the SoT on a whim?”
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He only had those powers while inside the Temple of the Winds, where he wasn’t much use to anyone. To leave the Temple, he had to give up all of the knowledge he had gained, and showed no signs of regaining it even after the Temple was returned to the world of life.
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“Is this a start?”
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I guess so.
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“You think Harry Dresden vs Richard Rahl has potential to rival Dante vs Vergil in terms of levels of violence potency, or do you think it might wind up going above that, really?”
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I would probably be bigger and flashier, regardless of which duo is more powerful.
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“The NoaN could be used to do anything really.”
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That’s pretty vague, and might be overstating the power of the NoaN a bit. It has shown the power to negate and manipulate enchantments and oaths made using the Ancient Language, shield the user from all magic involving the AL, change the meaning and nature of words in the AL, “control the language and all who use it,” and bypass shields created using the AL. It’s main use is in dealing with magicians who use the AL and magic done with it. Against SoT, it would probably be more limited to crafting new enchantments and ways to use magic, rather than directing affecting SoT.
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“And couldn’t True Names or an oath in the Ancient Language be used to prevent Confession? How does that work? Does the victim need to be in front of them?”
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A Confessor needs to touch her victim to confess them and can only do this once every 2-24 hours or so, unless she is in the Con Dar, in which case she can confess anyone in sight as many times as she wants. Once a person is confessed, they remain confessed no matter what until they die or the Confessor who touched them dies.
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If a person was simulaneously confessed and being controlled by their True Name, and given contradictory orders, the results would be…uncertain. It’s essential two forces used to utterly dominate and control a person pulling them in opposite directions.
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If a person made oaths in the AL, then they would most likely limit their actions as confessed slaves. If a Varden soldier swore that he would never lift up arms against other Varden soldiers, then I doubt even a Confessor could force him to do so, as he would be effectively bound by magic and never able to go against that no matter how hard he tried, unless the NoaN was used to dissolve his binding oaths. However, he could likely still be put to work by sending him against the Empire, or using him as free labor for the SoT side. If the soldier was so completely bound by oaths that they couldn’t do anything that the Confessor wanted (i.e. “I swear I will never help the forces of the Sword of Truth or fight against anyone from Alagaësia no matter what happens”), then they would likely commit suicide out of shame of being unable to fulfill their mistress’s orders.
“The Sword of Truth contains at least two magics, which are separate. (A Mord-Sith capturing and controlling the rage aspect of the sword didn’t prevent Richard from using the White Magic.) The first draws upon Richard’s anger to strike down enemies, but inflicts emotional and physical pain on him unless he is in a state of high anger, which helps to shield him from it. The White Magic, a more obscure and esoteric magic that only a few know about. It draws upon love and forgiveness, as opposed to hatred and rage. It is more powerful than the rage aspect (it pierced magical defenses that deflected the “normal” Sword of Truth) and can be used to strike down even those Richard doesn’t believe are enemies, but inflicts excruciating emotional pain on him, as he can effectively only use it on someone that he has forgiven entirely and thus doesn’t truly want to kill. He only used it to kill twice, both when he had no other options, and seemed to suffer from lingering guilt after the first time.”
Okay, so since for the fight he’d see Dresden as an enemy white magic is probably not going to come into play.
The controlled by emotions thing is somewhat similar to Dresdenverse magic, Dresden’s emotions can give more power to his spells sometimes, he can throw harder hitting when angry kind of things. Overall though for him magic is just energy in that universe, any kind of energy really. Dresden can draw power from thunder storms, the natural world, ley lines if he’s over on along one. It’s the energy of life and creation, actually part of why he’s effective against Eragon and Sephiroth, Eragon’s magic is energy from him the Eldunari or Saphira or the world around him, Sephiroths is from Materia and Lifestream energy so basically the energy of life. Kind of a rectangle square kind of thing for dresden, all magic is energy but not all energy is magic. When Dresden does a fire spell he’s not making fire from nothing he’s converting the energy, same with lightning. He can use pure force and will but they don’t have a place in the natural spectrum so they take a bit more effort and focus, not enough to hurt Dresden’s combat ability but more nonetheless.
I guess we need to wait until this is suggested though to really debate it.
There any match specifications that should be made? I know some characters have incarnations and such where they are stronger or weaker so thought I’d ask.
———
“Richard has never displayed the ability to enter or attack the minds of his enemies. He isn’t a Dreamwalker or a Confessor, after all.”
Right, just thought is should be stated that mental combat wouldn’t be a cake walk if only because of the things Dresden can do there. That was one ability of Eragons that was outright shut down by Dresden in every sense of the word. Not much Eragon could do to stop Dresden from being a comic book geek and scifi geek and unleashing an armada of Deathstars and Spacemarine armies on his brain.
@Admiral at #575
You’re forgetting about the Daleks on Eragon’s Brain, WHY???
(Let alone the knights of Jurai, for that matter?)
Although the idea of the Grey Knights in Eragon’s brain would be pretty Badass…good thing Haseo’s not the kind of guy who has to read thoughts to fight back against his enemies in a coherent manner.
I wonder what Haseo vs Eragon would be like, compared to Dresden vs Kratos, in fact.
I don’t suppose I need to set a reminder on Dresden with the DYDLTAE matter to worry about, right?
@AHEM on #574
I’ll be rooting massively for Dresden if that match happens, between you and me, okay?
Maybe if Rahl were a parent(biological or otherwise) I might try to feel remorse if Dresden manages to kill him, is that a reasonable deal?
I figured as much, man SoT is generally lacking in the subtility department, even Sectumsempra is more subtle than that and I’m the sort of guy who admittedly wish to see Potter successfully decapitate Rahl with that spell and live to tell about it(although if he succeeds, odds are good he’s not gonna talk much about it, to begin with out of at least a modicum of remorse!) or see Haseo just freeze-shoot Rahl and get the matter over with, whichever comes 1st.
So 2nd most powerful incarnation Rahl can afford, that isn’t from Orden’s powers, then?
Both Sword of Truth + Alagaesia have to fight a lot smarter than this if they want any results done in their favor, right?
So this thread breathes life, once more, right AHEM?
I meant it doesn’t matter what the NoaN is used for. Also, een if Orden was used, they would only need to ask the Eldunari if they’ve seen any of the other animals, and if they have, then Alagaesia can control them, too. How does Orden work? And what if someone discovered the True Name of the SoT or Orden.
“There any match specifications that should be made? I know some characters have incarnations and such where they are stronger or weaker so thought I’d ask.”
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It should be specified that it is Richard without the power of Orden. Battles with mortal wizards get pretty unfair if that is brought into play.
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“I’ll be rooting massively for Dresden if that match happens, between you and me, okay?
Maybe if Rahl were a parent(biological or otherwise) I might try to feel remorse if Dresden manages to kill him, is that a reasonable deal?”
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Rahl does not have any children, biological or otherwise. It is implied that one of the characters in “The Law of Nines” may be a descendent of Richard, but this never happened during any of the books.
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From what I’ve heard of Dresden, I’m thinking he might defeat Rahl, as well.
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“So 2nd most powerful incarnation Rahl can afford, that isn’t from Orden’s powers, then?”
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Orden is indeed his most powerful incarnation. His second most powerful incarnation is the war wizard with all the powers that I’ve described, without Orden.
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“Both Sword of Truth + Alagaesia have to fight a lot smarter than this if they want any results done in their favor, right?”
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Probably. This is still a match I see as potentially going either way. It’s interestingly evenly matched, despite or perhaps because of the advantages that both sides possess.
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“So this thread breathes life, once more, right AHEM?”
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Yup. Has been for quite some time.
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“Also, een if Orden was used, they would only need to ask the Eldunari if they’ve seen any of the other animals, and if they have, then Alagaesia can control them, too.”
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What do you mean? That the Alagaësians would find out about the animals in SoT and use their true names to control them? That wouldn’t work if Orden was activated; Richard could just take over or kill all of the controlled animals with a thought.
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“How does Orden work? And what if someone discovered the True Name of the SoT or Orden.”
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Orden is contained in three boxes. You need to gather all three, figure out which one is the true box, and then open that one. Opening the wrong box will either kill you, or destroy all life in the world. Opening the correct box gives the user massive power spawned from the earth and life itself that enables them to do things such as striking down anyone they want anywhere in the world, manipulating the natural world, creating and teleporting planets, wiping out all life, etc.
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I still say that Orden should be left out of this debate. With it, there’s no debate. SoT pushes a button (well, opens a box) and they win, unless all of the Alagaësian gods are there to oppose it, maybe. There’s no fight or any interesting strategies, that way.
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I’m not so certain that Orden even has a true name, or if it could be discovered. If it did, then I suppose that would allow the Alagaësian who found it to gain the power of Orden, bypassing the traditional means of getting it. The Sword of Truth itself, however, probably has a true name and can be controlled, as objects and weapons do in Alagaësia.
@AHEM
Dresden also has the Darkhollow Ritual to contend with if we want to talk about godlike powers(Haseo from the dot hack universe has a response to it, but it’d require the other 7 Morganna Factors to respond back and would be deadlock central in the process, Skullhead’s response is more standard in comparison!) so all the more reason to leave both the Darkhollow Ritual + Orden out, right?
If Potter or Haseo have a shot in getting Rahl either via decapitation either with Magic or weaponry, no reason to say why Dresden won’t be able to get Rahl already if it comes down to it, and if Dresden gets a soul gaze on Rahl, he’s gonna come to believe Rahl’s a Magi-terrorist and be fighting to kill, anyway!
Alex from the Law of the Nines is most likely gonna be feeling it via a bad dream, in that case, if Richard gets slain via Dresden(not like it might not have been called for, but still…) is he not?
So its either with the Temple’s powers or without it, right?
Fair enough.
That right there’s exactly How I’d feel if/when a Potter-world vs dot hack fight is ready to suggest, and in a way that’s also how the Cartoon Network Civil War operates, as well.(You missed out on that Badass Universe fight, it was the best fight of last November, in fact!)
I am relieved that you are here, at long last.
I agree that Orden should be barred along with other godlike powers on both sides, actually.
Orden can’t create gods outright, though, right?
“Dresden also has the Darkhollow Ritual to contend with if we want to talk about godlike powers(Haseo from the dot hack universe has a response to it, but it’d require the other 7 Morganna Factors to respond back and would be deadlock central in the process, Skullhead’s response is more standard in comparison!) so all the more reason to leave both the Darkhollow Ritual + Orden out, right?”
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Just as long as it’s fair. Everyone leaves their uber rituals out of the fight, or everyone gets them. Probably better to leave them out.
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“Alex from the Law of the Nines is most likely gonna be feeling it via a bad dream, in that case, if Richard gets slain via Dresden(not like it might not have been called for, but still…) is he not?”
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I was referring to Jax Amnell, not Alex Rahl. Alex is a descendant of Jennsen Rahl, Richard’s half sister, after all, not Richard himself. Given the disparity between time and worlds, Alex probably wouldn’t notice anything if Richard died, as long as he’d already created the world without magic.
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“I agree that Orden should be barred along with other godlike powers on both sides, actually.
Orden can’t create gods outright, though, right?”
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No, Orden can not create gods. There are only two gods in SoT, and both of them are beyond the scope of Orden. The creating gods bit was just more nonsense made up by Mr. Mike A. Wanker to make it look like Richard could beat Rand.
@AHEM
Now that Idea of either bringing in Uber Rituals(most Uber source of Non-standard powers I’d know!) or leaving them out is more like it.
Its an idea I can agree with, NQA!
So I sort of got mixed up between who’s related to what, right?
Jax Amnell might note it if Richard gets killed, though, right?(Is there potentially cousin-on-cousin in the Law of Nines universe?If so, why did no on tell us about this before now?)
If Rahl was gonna beat Rand, its most definitely wasn’t gonna be in that kind of manner, right?
I always suspected Orden can’t create gods, somehow.
Also, Care to have a look at this faction vs faction fight, since its(at least) another segment of a Major WoT faction fighting it out against a faction from another world, this time from Codex Alera?
I promise you and give you my word you will love this fight, or your money back, guarenteed, okay your Imperator?
Eh if Rahl was around when Dresden did Darkhallow he’d be dead anyway. as would anyone in the twenty or so mile radius. Plus it requires Dresden to take in spirits to reach godhood, the more the spirits the more the power Dresden would get. But he wouldn’t use it unless desperately desperate.
So Richard Rahl no Orden, got it. Should a specific battlefield be picked or just let that be a standard neutral battlefield?
@Admiral
I’d also add that admittedly speaking, if Haseo were to gather the full brunt of all the powers of the other 7 Morganna Factors, its probably a good idea to either attempt to kill him before he can complete the gathering or get as far the hells out of the way, failure to comply with either if you’re an immediate enemy of his = you have a deathwish, generally speaking.(Granted in this case, the gathering by itself won’t kill any immediate enemies in the way like the Darkhollow Ritual would, but that gathering =/= A walk on Easy Street, really!So Best they don’t try to take chances unless they’re brain-dead or held off!)
Shall we await what AHEM may suggest for the battlefield in question?
Also, what are the defensive capabilities of Eragon as of the final Inheritance novel?
“Jax Amnell might note it if Richard gets killed, though, right?(Is there potentially cousin-on-cousin in the Law of Nines universe?If so, why did no on tell us about this before now?)”
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Richard and Jennsen departed for different worlds roughly a thousand years before Jax and Alex met. A common ancestor some forty generations back and separation across worlds since then probably wouldn’t make much of a difference. Most people’s parents today would be more closely related!
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“So Richard Rahl no Orden, got it. Should a specific battlefield be picked or just let that be a standard neutral battlefield?”
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Neither should get a home turf advantage, but since they’re both wizards, it would make the fight more memorable and cool if it was set in a distinctly fantasy location that wouldn’t favor either of them. Maybe the grounds of Hogwarts? The desolate plains of Mordor? Maybe Mirkwood?
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“I promise you and give you my word you will love this fight, or your money back, guarenteed, okay your Imperator?”
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Maybe tomorrow or thereabouts, though I admit that I haven’t read Codex Alera.
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“Also, what are the defensive capabilities of Eragon as of the final Inheritance novel?”
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I believe he still wears steel armor, uses a shield, and relies on a network of wards to protect himself to danger, only with the wards backed by a lot more juice.
@AHEM
Fair point is fair.
Not every family has the potential for a Pseudo-hive mind-ish level of connections with blood relatives, right?
The grounds of Hogwarts…if the School is completely evacuated, I might buy the idea, personally speaking, only let it be revealed that Dresden’s outright in defense of the School and its residents if he’s gonna be in there at all, Mods know that if he’s to besiege a Potter-world school, its better its Durmstrang than Hogwarts, really.
Either that or the titular Camp Half-Blood since that place needs more positive reputations to go off of for the site, really.
Or even Aqua Capitol Mac Anu(dot.hack universe) for that matter.
Well this new match I guarentee you’ll love it.
Considering that the MoM + Menzoberranzan(correct spelling if I’m wrong on it) already had a match involving strike forces of DarkSpawn + ShadowSpawn(latter is especially notable since they’re the scouting/strike forces of the ShadowSpawn of Wheel of Time), and the Alerans are fighting it out with the Seanchan Empire(also making its debut in here) in regards to their invasion forces, much Badassery is to be found and I wonder if a Dresden Files faction or any of the factions depicted in Camp Half-Blood will be next to fight a fraction of a WoT faction that needs a debut on the site, next.
Where to begin on Eragon’s shields having a lot more juice than during Brisingr, among other things?
You got any noteworthy examples of effective defense?
@AHEM
Also of note:
Hogwarts is a Canon!-Anti Tech Zone, I don’t know what the guys who brought out the Iron Warriors were smoking, but quite frankly its not a matter to have outright disregard for, if I need be frank.
Luckily a lot of the stuff Dresden carries isn’t high-tech.(Iron Warriors having the Machine Spirit as an excuse?PLEASE, that’s outright wankage right there, and to say otherwise would mean that you’re bellyaching against it, stuff it in a sock, then!)
This may be of use if Dresden has to engage Rahl in those grounds, in fact.
@AHEM
I apologize for whatever crude elements you just read on Post #588, I haven’t quite been on my better days as of late with temperments. =_=’
@AHEM
The chaotic times of November 2011-April 2012 just came to a haphazard ending, but a lot of the damages from that time are still being felt, even today.
Let’s just say the less we need to note on them in general, the better things will get in the long run, okay?
@Everyone else
Anyone want in?
Only a matter of time before we reach a new page, right?
Let’s keep the meaningful content on Sword of Truth + Alagaesia coming.
@AHEM
So do we have a list of viable war strategists for both sides?
@AHEM
Is it true that Kahlan’s a Mary-Tzu, in fact?
@AHEM
For that matter, correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t Confession qualify to the Dresden Files as a sort of ‘Enthrallment’ if you may prefer the term, in fact?
@Admiral
What does Enthrallment entail, again?
“Where to begin on Eragon’s shields having a lot more juice than during Brisingr, among other things?
You got any noteworthy examples of effective defense?”
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Can’t think of very many off the top of my head. His wards see use all through the series from Eldest onward, usually with him being hit and then noting that he’s lost a small amount of energy due to his wards blocking it. They can’t block everything, though. Certain enchanted weapons and spells can get around them.
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“Hogwarts is a Canon!-Anti Tech Zone, I don’t know what the guys who brought out the Iron Warriors were smoking, but quite frankly its not a matter to have outright disregard for, if I need be frank.”
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I thought we were just talking about Rahl and Dresden engaging there, not the Iron Warriors also being a part of the fight.
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In any case, I don’t think either of the two would be effected much, as Rahl comes from a world with a medieval tech level, and I understand that wizards in the Dresden Files have a similar anti-tech effect around themselves, so Dresden probably wouldn’t be using any technology that could be affected that way.
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“So do we have a list of viable war strategists for both sides? Is it true that Kahlan’s a Mary-Tzu, in fact?”
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Hmm…Kahlan does indeed show a lot of talent for commanding forces and leading wars, as she held off the Imperial Order for a time despite a massive numerical disadvantage. However, she ultimately failed in stopping them from taking the Midlands.
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As for Alagaësia, I’m not sure. Most of the imperial generals and commanders are not named, or just killed off-screen. The Varden display some pretty abysmal battle tactics, such as leaving their fortifications to cross a wide expanse of land and attack a numerically superior force head on when they could have waited for them to come to them, or putting an incompetent idiot like Captain Edric in a position of command, trying to charge a group of soldiers armed with armor piercing crossbows, punishing a war hero who singlehandedly turned the tide of a battle for not following orders closely enough, etc.
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I’d say Roran is probably Alagaësia’s best bet, despite his lesser experience. He improvises, invents, and flexibly adjusts his tactics for the situation, and has been known to capture entire cities and win battles against enormous odds.
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Galbatorix is also a very skilled manipulator and strategist-he was an outcast and outlaw, and managed to build a rebellion that toppled the dominant order of Dragon Riders who had ruled the world for almost 2,600 years. If, that is, he can get around to moving his lazy ass off of his throne for once.
“For that matter, correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t Confession qualify to the Dresden Files as a sort of ‘Enthrallment’ if you may prefer the term, in fact?”
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It’s extreme emotional manipulation utilized for the purpose of permanent mind control, so it probably would. Depends on how “Enthrallment” is defined in the DF.
@AHEM
On #596:
Do you have any examples of when they got hit after Brisingr?
You are not alone with the fact that you had to deal with wankage going on behind your back.
Dresden has a revolver, if it might also be of use against Rahl, in fact.
So Roran, Galbatorix + Murtagh are the only intelligent military leaders Alagaesia has to offer, compared to the numbers of said officers Sword of Truth has in their pinky nails, right?
At #597:
Shall we let the Admiral remind us on what Enthrallment is, to be sure?
It may be of use to consider if the Admiral is to do the match!
The Dwarves, or at least some, are pretty cunning at least, managing to get around all the security and get to Eragon. What use are the Dwarves and their lights? Or the Elves? Or wildlife.
@AHEM + Admiral
Your responses to posts #596, #597. #598 and #599, to boot respectively?