You asked for it, so here it is:
Set up any scenario you want, if you think any of the combatants would pair up or not – The question is, between Kratos, Master Chief, Superman, Lobo, Kharn, Cyrpto 137, Goku and Chuck Norris, who emerges from this epic match? and most importantly, HOW DO THEY DO IT?
wow this is great!! I would think my final four would be Superman, Goku, MC, and Kratos. I believe superman and goku would be far to powerful for MC to be able to beat so he would fall and Kratos wouldn’t be able to beat either of them either. So between Goku and superman I have to say the winner would be Goku because he gets more powerful as he battles and would eventually be too powerful for superman to beat.. It would be a long battle but the winner is GoKu
winner: Goku
My GOD the mayhem. I need to think about this one for a little bit. Of course my monney initially goes to my golden childe, the maniac Kharn, but in truth its more out of faith/hope than logic. Ill need a little bit to figure this one out.
The rality is that Lobo might be able to outlast them all, but with the graces of the Blood God (who, no doubt is going to love this bloodbath) IF Kharn is felled, he would just be brought back. Being able to outlast even the mighty Lobo. The Berzerker would return stronger.
Faster.
Meaner.
Angrier.
Yea, being the only one with a universal diety sponsirship, my money is on Kharn.
…oh the humanity.
ok lets say we do this up and down so its
Crypto vs lobo
superman vs chief
goku vs chuck
kharn vs kratos
-crypto loses…terribly
-chief cant win this one its superman…and besides the only person here he COULD beat would be crypto
-goku kills himself becouse of the immense pain chuck is giving him from looking at him…
-kharn murders kratos…
now its lobo vs superman and chuck vs kharn
lobo is immortal isnt he? so yeah ill say he wins…
within the first FOUR seconds kharn is asking for the god emporers forgivness
now its lobo vs chuck…when the final match begins lobo is nowhere to be found…seven years later they find him in the fetal position crying in a dark corner in a house in the outskirts of africa. (if superman won then you can replace lobo with superman…)
WINNER: CHUCK NORRIS!
@swifterdeath
LOLZROFLSTOMPED!!!!
That was great. Made everyone swing by my cubicle to see what was so damned funny.
first off crypto would pwn mc with either the zap o matic or the disintergrator ray…or he could even just use his tele powers and throw mc a really far distance…anyway mc gets killed first then crypto tries to levitate kharn but gets cut in half then chuck norris tries to punch goku but goku does kahmehameha and destroys chuck then kratos cuts lobo into a million pieces while kharn bites krato’s head off and as for superman…well id reckon kharn and goku would take care of him
sorry for my mess up earlier…yes i know it was funny…BUT
actually what happens is when everyone shows up for this huge battle they notice someones not here…
SUDDENLY chuck norris walks in within a millisecond here it what is happening…
Kharne-
is trying to get in contact with the tau going to ask if they can get him out of here he will join the greater good
Crypto-
is beaming himself backto his ship
Kratos-
is helping hang goku
Goku-
is being hung willingly by kratos while prepareing a (insert hama whatever here)
superman-
is swallowing some krypto…stuff cant remember name
Lobo-
is finding his way to garbage compactor
Masterchief-
is placing a dummy in his position while he attempts a escape.
now what happens to them after this millisecond is over?
Kharne-
is half melted by chuck coughing in his general direction and is continueing to melt
crpyto-
is crashed and dying threw lack of flying skills becouse chuck glanced in his general direction
Kratos-
is killed by goku
Goku-
is hung by kratos
Superman-
dying becouse only two things can kill superman…
krypto…whatever and chuck norris…in this case chuck got to him first…or actually just thought ‘i wonder what it would be like if superman slowly died?’…so it happened
Lobo-
is being compacted in the open…becouse chuck thought it would be fun to whatch
MC-
is without air since chuck took a deep breath sucking in all the air within a four mile radius…
winner…:chuck!
well that was the second scenario heres the third and most likly…
chuck never makes it and while the other seven are either winning or losing he is sitting at his house killing a messanger boy sent to bring him…that night he is declared the winner after kharne rips apart superman. no one questions why chuck won….ever
depening on the superman i think he would win,although lobo is immortal.
Chuck Norris will snap his finger and then everyone’s heart will explode.
Okay, so at th start there is a massive general melee at th start leaves 3 survivors; superman, Lobo and Goku. Superman and Lobo have fought together in the past and so they team up and kill the saiyan. Then Superman and Lobo sqaure off, however the 2 of them have comparable powers and so they fight for several long days. Then Superman tells Lobo about his “love” of dolphins by saying “Argh, I’m never going to see another dolphin again if I have to fight you till the end of eternity”and Lobo refuses to fight a fellow dolphin lover anymore. Then as he stands up and starts to walk away Suoerman uses his lazer vision to burn lobos head off then while lobo is regenerating Superman grabs him and flys into space where he launches Lobo into the heart of the sun.
so you say kharn will die?
Kharn would win this. After putting what everyone can truly do together, it just doesn’t match up any other way. Kharne owns them all.
Kharne owns this match
Chuck Norris!
There are too many methods he could use to win…
1) Roundhouse kicks.
2) Staring at his opponents until they explode.
3) He tells to die, and they sure as hell listen. Nobody ignores Chuck Norris.
4) He uses his beard to kill them.
5) He deflects their weapons with his beard, and every contender’s head explodes out of sheer amazement.
6) He sends a picture of himself to the contest, and everyone of them commits suicide to avoid the consequences.
…………………
Endless list.
Ultimate victor: Chuck Norris, without breaking a sweat.
1.mc and chuck are the same OR mc is chucks grand^10 son.
2. Chuck can never lose agianst anything, not even a direct hit from an atom bomb.
3. Atom bombs are not real, the japness just frogot to give chuck his eggroll.
3. One galxey with this much kick @$$ness would cause a black hole so big that suns would be sucked in in a matter of seconds.
4. Chuck norris wins by forfit, no matter who shows up.
did anyone ever notice that rob zombie looks just like lobo…….hmmmmmmm……. you never see them in the same place……………hmmmmmm……………………….. could they be the same person…
now that rob zombie/lobo knows that you know, you will probably be killed
Hey Admin, you should post another group fight battle today…they seem to be the most interesting
I should have added doomsday to this fight just for colour
I say Goku sarts his hours of grunting howling and powering up just to be ripped apart by Lobo’s gutting hook and Gorechild, MC gives Crypto a face full of plasma grenade, Chuck breaks MC’s head off, Superman and Kratos kill each other in an earth shattering stand off, leaving Kharn Chuck and Lobo to tear the universe apart fighting each other and anything else they see untill the damage they cause destroys existance
@PaPPa JUDAS – “I should have added doomsday to this fight just for colour”
I think he would have been a better selection than Chuck. People cant seem to go beyond him on these duscussions. If you would have done that, I’d share your veredict without Chuck in the equation. After the dust settles from this massive mayhem, Kharn and Lobo would pretty much be enganged in eternal combat. Laying waste anything they make their battleground at the time, much like the other combatants of this grand melee.
The amount of bloodshed these two would cause would make Khorne happy indeed.
im gonna change my original decision, i think lobo would beat superman
i would say depending on the superman,he could win.
the only problem i see here is lobocuz he cant die.so supes would have to drop him off somewhere he cant fight him.
“the only problem i see here is lobocuz he cant die.so supes would have to drop him off somewhere he cant fight him.”
Thats the same scenario as Kharn, the Blood God just keeps resurecting him. I doubt Supes could deal with both Lobo AND Kharn, which is why I say those two will come to be the final match that would simply last for an eternity.
the reason i say that is because superman is FTL,has lightspeed reaction,and has survived super nova like attacks.
i mean even with magic it would still be hard to kill him.
Doomsday seems to have managed to do just that with brute force.
“In the space of only a few issues of the Superman comic book series, Doomsday battled Superman in a titanic struggle, leading the hero to conclude that the creature would only continue to attack relentlessly and endlessly, with no urge for surrender. It all culminated in Superman (vol. 2) #75, where in an act of self-sacrifice, Superman refused to give up despite taking serious wounds and running low on stamina. The fight raged to the bitter end, where the two combatants each struck a simultaneous, fatal blow, leaving both of them lifeless in front of the Daily Planet building in Metropolis.”
A fight with either Lobo or Kharn would amount to the same scenario. Individuals whom he cannot stop, but could match his powers and certainly outlast him or Doomsday. The carnage would drive Supes to do the same sacrifice…
Exhaust himself to death.
thats why i said depending on superman,the version you mean is post crisis who was nerfed for some reason,im also pretty sure that superman only had his metabolism slowed down so that he would live.
besides that doomsday is also able to adopt to any attack.
ok i got a list of some of his feats.
blows earth back intoo the right place.
img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc1dc4.jpg
damage from a super sneeze.
img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pctr7.jpg
trillions of miles in a second.
img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc1bc4.jpg
A Super Nova only dazes Superman for a micro second. He then finds himself in an unknown solar system and proceeds to drill his way to the center of a planet:
img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman24303xt8.jpg
img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman24304hy2.jpg
img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman24305hm3.jpg
throws a compressed neutron star
img292.imageshack.us/img292/1787/pc2mw9.jpg
Superman was able to fly through the time barrier and go millions of years into the past on a whim:
img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc3kz3.jpg
laughs at death(not really)
img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc4tj7.jpg
and finally
Superman intercepts a bomb that was meant to destroy the Earth and isn’t harmed at all:
img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman23614jk0.jpg
img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman23615ky3.jpg
i have no dobut superman couldn’t lift anyone
and send them to another time zone.
im not sure if this is pre-crisis or not but.
Here is supes surviving an island destroying nuke at ground zero WHILE laying in kryptonite AND weakened from fighting multiple enemies for days. He comes out unfazed.
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/supesnuke.jpg
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/supesnuke2.jpg
so he does have some resistance even to weaknesses.
i actually had a short debate with this guy,but it was with warhammer vs DC.
he told me that prime solos and that he could feed off the chaos gods.
he also said superman prime survived a universe buster.
oh and here is the link.
lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/59534p1.html
@Matapiojo-”I think he would have been a better selection than Chuck.People cant seem to go beyond him on these duscussions.”
but it’s chuck….Yea I geuss youre right but hey I’m sure when he gets killed he would end up getting the same deal as Lobo or Kharn and be back in the fight before you know it He is after all reality’s awnser to Lobo and Kharn
I don’t have a link but diddn’t Lobo lift the universe and crush a city into a bite sized snack?
i dont know about the universe thing,but he did compress a city.
all the warriors would kill each other wilst chuck gets a job in an infoershale to give people ripped abes…chuck wins and he is not god chuck in this scenario…
Well the first person to drop would either be Crypto or MC, followed closely by the other. After and extended amount of time Kratos would also fall. Both Superman and Goku would fly above the battle, pummeling each other in the sky while Kharn and Lobo destroyed the ground the fought on. Eventually, Kharn would fall to Lobo, but at the same time Lobo would have been shredded so badly by the Betrayer that he would be unable to continue fighting. And I agree with Marche that Superman would eventually come out on top.
I’m back to backing Superman here, however I’m not sure of one thing, I know Lobo cannot be killed nor wounded so severly he has to stop fighting but does Kharn have instant revival because I thought he just got reincarnated everytime he died but not instantly! It’s just that if he was revived as soon as he died then how could you defeat an army with him as the HQ unit?
no chance team 2
they are better
PERIOD!
@=[BF]=JimmieRox
Kharn’s revival is not trully know simply because after he gained favor from Khorne, he has never even come close to being killed. With Khorne’s blessing, pretty much anything can happen. He could heal wounds just as they are being dealt, he could regrow lost limbs, he could simply keep on taking fatal hits and just laugh. Truth is, we dont know for a fact. It all depends on how pleased the Blood God is with Kharn’s performance, and this goliath never dissapoints. This very fight might fuel Khorne to unprecedented levels, which in turn he passes the juice right along to his champion.
Such is the nature of a God that is fueled by combat.
————————————————————————–
The tabletop rules are absolutely nerfed when compared to canon. Kharn has butchered entire armies of Space Marines by himself (read up on how uber those are). Having this sort of power on your side of the table wouldnt be very fair to your opponent, would it?
It all has to make sense in terms of balance to make the game inviting to players. It is extremely cool to have characters such as Kharn on your army, but at the same time you have to be able to be defeated. Otherwise, there wouldnt be much point to playing the game at all. Same story goes for greater Daemons, C’Tan, other named characters, Avatars of Khaine, Land Raiders, Monolyths, Hive Tyrants, etc, etc.
The game will never reflect the true awesomeness of these playable characters. It is usefull to look at for reference purposes, but nowhere near valid for final answers.
First the best matchups for round one
Master Chief V.S. Crypto 137
Master Chief wins… but with all his armor destroyed
Kharn V.S. Lobo
They bosh bash each other over and over again and neither wins so they continue fighting for enternity disqualifying them both
Chuck Norris V.S. Superman
It would start out close but Superman would fly Chuck into space and he would suffocaite
Goku V.S. Kratos
Goku. The kamehameha powns all that challlenge it.
Reamaning contestants- Goku, Superman and Master Chief
Since it is an odd amount of contestants the 3-way starts!
All start 3 miles away and…
Master Chief gets a spartan laser……….
Superman combines all his beams…….
Goku forms the kamehameha all mighty……
The world would blow up, master chief can’t fly and didn’t have backup so plummited to his doom leaving Superman and Goku but Superman would be distraught and kill himself because he took part in ending humanity, but Goku would know that the humans were on a different planet for the durration of the tourdament and become the ultimate
LAST MAN STANDING
Kankurot
el fin
yeah, but since the fiction is a off shoot of the game then technically the 40k rulebooks and codex are the official repository of all knowledge Warhammer 40,000
actually depending on the superman he would pwn goku in an instant.
who is kharn?? and i think lobo win unless someone gives good reason kharn is so great.
Well, he was killed in battle but he so impressed a god (Khorne) that he was reincarnated and now he is immortal as long as he doesn’t profess a secret love of small furry animals to piss Khorne off
Kharn is bassicaly a giant Lobo in super kick a$$ armor it will come down to a stale mate between these two there may be stronger combatants on the feild like supes and goku but the don’t have the stomach for the kind of havoc that lobo and Kharn will bring or the stamina for a giant orgy of death of which this would shurley become
every one is understamateing goku in this one. if any one but me remembers goku is inmortal because he absorbed the dragon balls. so he would most likely win,and if not him then superman would win,i still think lobo would get wooped by boh superman and goku. superman and goku should fuse to make clarku. goku-clark…..ahhhh it was and idea anyway, i wounder if they have any thing like that…………..on to the google
sorry i misspelled underestamateing
we dont really know much about that thou.
Does Kharn ever get tired?
Lobo and Kharn would Rip Goku apart these two and even Kratos would turn this into a blood fueled death orgy the other combatants dont have the heart for that kind of fight
Master cheif should stay out of this fight.
and i would say out of all of them’
winner:chuck norris
his roundhouse kick is so powerfull that it can be seen from outer space
the U.S military sent the atomic bomb on japan instead of sending Chuck norris it would be more humane.
and chuck norris only “baits” to chuck norris
And admin. I would like to see a micheal jackson vs marche thanks.
if it was lobo vs crypto
crypto would win and this is why
Two words
DESINTEGRATOR RAY turns him into a very nice pile of absolutly nothing!!!!!!
space marine you are wrong because superman and goku could just fly around the shots so the only ones he would be likely to kill are chuck norris and mc and maybe kratos
@Space marine
“if it was lobo vs crypto
crypto would win and this is why
Two words
DESINTEGRATOR RAY turns him into a very nice pile of absolutly nothing”
i dont think that would help crypto.
Indeed, it is a formidable match up, but ultimately I think Goku would triumph, or maybe Lobo or Superman. but Goku’s SSJ4 attacks are just to much to withstand.
Super mand would kill them all with super strength.
WAIT! I didn’t know chuck was in the battle. Chuck wins any day.
superman and goku team up to protect earth owning all ass in the process then go train together. Vegeta ,seeing there’s another person stronger than him has to cry himself to sleep
“superman and goku team up to protect earth owning all ass in the process then go train together. Vegeta ,seeing there’s another person stronger than him has to cry himself to sleep”
No dice.
The Kryptonian gets a Gorechild swing that cleaves his skull in half, and the Sayan gets eviscerated by a speeding Chain-hook.
i still think supes prime or bluie wowuld whip everyboy,considering how fast and hard they hit.
well i tink it depends on what kratos is. is he the god of war kratos or just mortal kratos but i think.
the winner will obviously kratos or superman they would overpower everyone else even hcuck norris
add goku to that
admin,what goku would we be using for this match.
oops,i meant superman.
For the sake of this battle, the “regular” version – none of the enhanced versions that have been talked about.
they arent exactly enchanced,just in different universes,but exist in the same multiverse.
but i guess you mean current superman.he is slowly becoming like his pre crisis self so i still say he wins.
Chuck Norris, Crypto and Master Chief die the moment Goku shoots some sort of super-death blast. And yeah I hardly know any of the others.
Goku would probably win. you can thank the massive overpowering of his Japanese anime series for that. besides that, Superman would beat every other person that comes. MC would end up as a compacted tin can, Lobo (who cant fly on his own) would get launched into orbit along with Crypto, and Kharn. Kratos would soon join them but could give superman some trouble with those magical blades of his, but super man would just overwhelm him with sheer speed and send him nito orbit with the others. Chuck Norris would wet himself at the thought of a fight this epic.
Superman or Lobo. Why the hell is Chuck Norris still in these things?
Goku can instant transmission himself far away form space and create a giant spirit bomb thus destroying the earth killing everyone unless he goes super sayain forms to them
yep,nothing wrong with that except:
-Goku cant breathe in space
-spirit bomb would leave superman alive(he is a purely good guy.)
-goku would need time to create such a bomb(they arent blind so are going to see it)
the simple fact that kharn is there throws out the purpose off teams.
he wasn’t called the betrayer for nothing
This hole match would be a battle of attrition, there would also be no way for this to end unless Khorne lost favor in Kharn, so unless that happened it would be lobos vs Kharn the only challenge for either of them would be superman and the kind of carnage they do i don’t think superman would stand it and would forfiet. all others wouldn’t last a minute in the ring unless lobos and Kharn imediatly went for eachother.
chuck Norris will beat all their MC O.o lmao
kharn chaces chief into a ship were he escapes and goes to a psychiatrist after seeing all the skulls kharn was wearing.
kharn cuts lobo open and puts a melta bomb inside him melting him down so their is nothing left to regenerate
kharn hacks cratos in half and goes back to the underworld and drags him out and throws him into the daemon world of khorne.
kharn crushes cryptinite in his hand and powders it over gorechild than hacks superman in half.
kharn yells at crypto and makes him run back to his ship for help.
kharn and chuck have a stare off until chuck blinks and goes home to hang himself little does he know kharn was wearing helmet and blinked the hole time and chuck did’nt see.
kharn shoots goku in the head while he is going kaaaame kaaame ha….BANG
kharn won
^thas very one sided
Goku destroys the planet killing everyone and then uses instant transmission to teleport to another planet.
Goku wins.
Assuming superman doesn’t get out of the way and lobo….just survives.
@ Averex8
So since it takes almost 3 episodes worth of time for every Dragonball Z character to do this, what stops Kharn from just sneaking up to him, while Goku is dramatically pausing and just… I don’t know….. KILLS HIM.
Kharn and Kratos win because when it comes right do to it, only he and Kratos have godly power (or help of a godly power) and they would just fight for an eternity or become fast friends as they like the same things: killing gods, killing monsters, killing people, etc.
Please would no body pull up that Superman wins beause of his speed, because Kratos can just slow down time and then kill him.
Time stopping isn’t instant and i doubt he would do it right off the bat.Even if he did Supes would speed blitz.
I mean activating,not the time stopping itself not being instant.
Marche does have a point. Moving at or faster than the speed of light is such a great asset for Supes. Yes, Kharn is amazing, and yes, Gorechild could and probably would kill Supes IF he actually manages to hit him. Supes moves just way to fast for Kharn to react (unless Khorne somehow bless him with FTL reflexes….). The only person I can see keeping up with Supes is Goku with his instant teleportation. MC would be defeated by Kharne, Supes, Goku, Lobo, and maybe ( I stress maybe, since people might disagree) Crypto.
I see Lobo, Kharne, Supes and Goku being the final four.
1. Lobo will be there because of the whole, getting kicked out of heaven and hell thing.
2. Kharne will be there because of his resurrection thing with Khorne
3. Supes and Goku will be there because of their immense endurance, power, and durability.
One possible way (though highly improbably), is Supes somehow knows Kharn’s Gorechild is special (and steals souls and ects…), so he speed blitx Kharn, steals Gorechild at the speed of light, and goes around haking people with the ax….till he hits Chuck and realizes Chuck doesn’t need a soul to live…..but besides the instant “Chuck destroys all” card, I think Supes might be the last one standing.
Such a good match up anyway, and I love Factpile……
- pondering fool
Ok in all seriousness, WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!? I know the whole chuck norris being a beast thing is an ongoing gag and it’s hilarious but in all seriousness, the real chuck norris cannot come close to defeating ANY of the other combatants in this match on his best and their worst day and shame on yuo moderator for tainting such a battle by putting in element x cuz lord knows you knew this would happen!
Chuck Norris PWNS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone knows chuck is the victor, ALWAYS THE VICTOR….
Kakarot would take this quite easily with the exception of Superman which would end with a Instant Transmission Kamehameha to the face.
While I have no doubt Goku could beat most of these opponents, there is no way he land a single strike on Superman. The big blue boyscout could speed-blitz the saiyan before he could even consider using instant0-transmission.
the titan-god and god-slayer vs simple humans , aliens, no gods, steel and powerful alien in the universe
so kratos will kill every one
Plz none of these guys could hold a candle to chuck.
this is superman vs lobo, and if lobo actually won’t die, then I suppose he might eventually win.
hey wait a second, if crypto survives long enought there are 2 things he could do, 1 is stop time, another is use the black hole generater, so ya dont count him out completely, or the disenegrater gun or all 3
“hey wait a second, if crypto survives long enought there are 2 things he could do, 1 is stop time, another is use the black hole generater, so ya dont count him out completely, or the disenegrater gun or all 3″
Thats a big “if” mate, especially when you are facing people that have FTL speeds, like Supes……one punch from the man of steel, going at 180000 m/s is going to leave a world of hurt…..or nothing but ash.
- pf
@ pf
i know im just saying he has the fire power to compete here, if not the durability, a black hole is kinda hard to avoid, then theres kratos ability to stop time and the medusa head magic that will work on all
except mayb kharn
I wholeheartedly agree with post #82…that Superman, Lobo, Kharn, and Goku would be the final four standing.
I’m really baffled though…what’s with all this ‘Chuck Norris’ thing?
Each chuck or Kratos would win! stupids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!pwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnndddddddddddddddd.
Chuck would simply say “i win” and all other combatants would instantaneously combust THE END
Whoa I forgot Crypto had a black hole generator…well in that case I’d say everypne except Superman would die and then Superman whoop’s Crypto’s ass
3 teams. goku, kratos, master cheif, and suprman, the good team, against crypto 137, lobo, and kharn, the bad, against chuck norris, the invincible.
well, i’d unhappily like to say, i know nothing about the bad team =( but, chuck norris can knock down a house in just 1 kick, however, so can goku. in super saiyan 3, or super saiyan 4…he could knock down 2,000,000 houses with just a poke…literally, plus he can probably go kaio-ken x 5 at that point. so, i’d have to say, that goku, can knock down a chuck norris, with “just one kick” because, well, u don’t hear that chuck norris can knock down more than a single house with a kick. i’d say that, master chief would start camping, and do some damage, then goku and superman come in and fight, followed by kratos…if only i knew something about him…but, in the end, i’m betting on the good team.
This battle has some hard core fight potential, but in the end, Goku does the spirit bomb and blows the rock this battles on to pieces and every ones dead. Weather theyre on earth, krypton, the halo ring, olympus, hell, or texes, everyone and everything will be dust once gokus through here.
Wow.
I honestly just got done explaining why the spirit bomb would not be a good weapon to use.
You just don’t learn do you?